I thought I was the only one. I have been in the video games from the start. Now I am 40 and still love them. I have kids that love them and I often play network games with my son. Coop games are the best father son by far.

I wish there were more. So far the ones we have had fun with.
Tiger Woods 2004 PC
Quake Team areana (it has coop vs the bots CTF) UT2004 is lame in the coop sense.
Diablo II- super fun coop
Dungeon Siege LOA- They need to copy more from diablo the messed up the formula some how, but its still fun.
Virtual Tennis - not really coop but probably the best one on one sports game for the PC. Works great on the net.

Thats it. I loved Coop in Doom and Heretic. My best memories are of Doom in coop mode.

I don't buy the MMPRPGs are a good replacement. They have no end, just money suckers.

And Online FPS are fun but its not the same thing as true coop mode. I like fighting through a single player game with a buddy. Far Cry would be fantastic if they added a coop mode. It still is a great game as is.

Carmack and his cronies are way off base if they think people don't like it.

I was a huge Q2 CTF junkie. Been in several #1 USA clans. So I know and appreciate the FPS online scene. I still miss coop mode when I have buddy over.

What other coop PC games are out now? I mean decent ones.

Its laughable when you here people saying that coop would be difficult to do. Hmmm I wonder if making the 3D engine was difficult? I don't think making a coop game is that much of an obstacle.

I think coop is more important now than it was in doom days. Now many of the people that played and loved coop doom are old enough to have kids (like me) and are looking for that type of game.

I was saddened to here Doom3 would only be coop for Xbox.

CARMACK IS A SELL OUT!

ya'll been trolled
This comment was edited on May 28, 00:56.

ildon why do you think coop works better on consoles? Split screen is not what I call coop, thats what I call utter waste of space.

True coop is Rainbow Six, Hidden & Dangerous all done over the internet using TS2 Voice comms, it beats the hell out of Deathmatch boringness.

X-box just like all other consoles are a poor mans toy with inferior gameplay, sound, graphics etc. I would rather have a wank.

Hey John put COOP in and You'll sell +1mill more copies and if the game just happens to suck it won't be as bad if coop is in there. Us PC players are starving for a good coop game. And dont come up with some code bs excuse. That fact that xbox will have coop and my computer wont pisses me off. Doesnt the xbox use pc code anyway?
Put it in and patch it later , dont leave it out!!!!!

Coop MADE Doom, fuck dammit. Everyone and their fucking donkey played Doom in Coop.

So now there's split screen Doom 3 coop, but no coop for the PC guys? Need us to bend over a little further, Carmack? Found your fucking rocket yet?

Sigh.

Creston

Probably like 10% of the game buying public.

Probably because less than 10% of games supports it.

I played games over my home lan against my brothers all the time. the best thing though was co-op games, either RTS starcraft (Marines (us) vs zerg (comp's)) or serious sam or doom1 + 2.

it ruled and its annoying that so few publishers ignore a very underdeveloped genre/niche type thing.

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Leading the "Support our Arrow keys" movement!

Id has said they "wouldn't be spending time on coop", specifically. I'm sure you all would cry if it took another 3 months for the game to come out while they went through and added coop functionality to the entire game and then had Activision test to make sure it all worked, etc. And the X-box version probably isn't coming out until a few months after the PC version (at least), and it's not like VV has anything else to do while Id does the vast majority of the work, so they work on adding a coop mode in the extra time/resources they have. And coop is more expected/works better for consoles anyway. (Seriously, how many PC gamers have actually ever played a LAN game ever or even play online games [other than counter-strike]. Probably like 10% of the game buying public.)

And finally, do you realize how modable Doom3 will be? Maps won't be compiled, so you can fix any problems they have with coop mode, and not only will you have access to an extremely powerful scripting system, Id will also release the mod source like they always do. I wouldn't be suprised if we see a quick coop hack out within DAYS of Doom3's release.

So quit your crying.

Edit: Oh yeah, and where were you people when Quake2, Half-Life, and Unreal were released without coop? That annoyed me, but it didn't cause me to make huge slashdot and bluesnews posts crying about it. And I still bought the games, and they were still fun, and in every single case a coop mod came out eventually.
This comment was edited on Mar 10, 13:09.

To all those who whine about lack of co-op FPS' on the pc, I have four words for you: 'Serious Sam' and 'Rainbow Six'.

As for coop being xbox exclusive; I wouldn't be surprised, seeing as iD has also cashed in on the nVidia promotion deal, despite the fact that ATI's hardware runs better.

funny that people get bent out of shape on this complaining that id is screwing pc users, yet rtcw had co-op added to the xbox port as well; this is nothing new.

Stop whining, co-op for the xbox is easy, just an extra camera and model and your fine. To do it on pc you have to do it over the net, which has already been limited to 8 players so how the hell is it supposed to do co-op with a ton of flying babies and skulls all over the place?

I suspect that this "XB exclusive" refers strictly to split-screen coop mode a la XB Halo, console HL, etc.

Silonez I never bought Hidden and dangerous 2 simply because it had no coop, if it had coop I would have bought it. Same with Doom3, I am not really interested in SP games, they such after a few hours.

So no I won't and if H&D2 is anything to go by I would hazzard a guess I will not be alone.

The way i see it, it weouldent take much to make a really good co-op game.

Add in extra parts of the level taht are only accessable when more than one player is in the game. Then (for example), split them up, they both arrive at some machinery, and using a little intercom thing have to tell the other player what to do while your doing things at your end.

With a little bit of imagination players could manipulate the machine, with it having an effect at the other end for the other player. the idea of this is that they would have to get the machine to a certain state before having to move on, all the while, while under attack. Would add an intresting twist in that you would be waiting for the other player to complete his part listening to the gunfire, telling him to hurry up, because you know that if he dies and has to respawn and get back there youre gonna be in a world of crap.

I dunno, Co-op could be much better than if they just tacked it on. bit of imagination and you could have some really deep complex scenarios, where your on your own working for the team, and others where the team is together and up against hordes of nasties.


But yeah, Doom 3 PC should come with co-op even if its just tacked on.

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Leading the "Support our Arrow keys" movement!

"Will I buy Doom 3 now? NOPE."

Yes you will, and so will everyone else. And Id knows it.

Look Hidden and dangerous was the best coop game of al time, no respawning, once you dead, you are dead and just spectate

COOP has a massive untapped following and the first developer to make a really great coop game will make a mint. I saw how many people signed the poll to put coop into H&D2, there is a big coop following out there.

Will I buy Doom 3 now? NOPE.

Doesnt that basicly state that thier AI sucks

No. People get excited about the HL marines, the Far-Cry mercenaries etc, but in deathmatch terms those would be useless. AI where moves are "suggested" i.e. semi-scripted, like those two, look great in SP (and Co-op I suppose) but don't work like UT2004 bots etc, which in turn would be unconvincing in a linear, level environment. I would guess that Hollenshead's comments refer to the fact that players get a better game (in deathmatch terms) against humans than their AI, because their AI is geared towards creeping about in shadows where it's been told to by level designers.
I quite like the idea of coop, esp. if players are still limited to four.

Of course, I may be completely wrong.

FPS developers should definately consider bringing in RPG-style co-op play to the FPS genre. Currently, co-op play is understandably not that profitable a feature to put into your game because there are no real rewards for the players to co-operate. It's kinda fun to re-explore the single player game with a friend, but you have infinite respawns, and you're generally killing stuff without any direction. Meanwhile, RPGs have a party system so that people share experience points, gold, and treasure. They can swap items (most FPSs don't have inventories at all nowadays), weapons, amulets. I think games like Deus Ex or System Shock 2 are great for co-op play (ss2 did have co-op), but most FPS co-op isn't worth the trouble. Another thing about RPGs is that death usually does punish you in some way. You lose experience points, gold, etc. RPGs also allow players to cooperate by using town portal features, so people can join the surviving member in play.... buff each other with various spells/aura/enhancements. FPS games just have two guns instead of one. You can never directly enhance the other guy.

Battlezone 2, in my opinion, is the greatest co-op game to date. Just 2 players can engage in a co-op game that requires A LOT of coordination, and victory is truly at stake for the entire team. You do NOT have infinite respawns, as the game is an FPS/RTS hybrid, forcing you to worry about resources, strategy and so forth. Whereas most FPS co-op games, there is no reason to coordinate or call out locations of enemy forces or where they are amassing for an assault...... BZ2 forced players to constantly communicate, so that attacks could be met and stopped before damage was done. In short, it was truly cooperative play against a relentless AI. Due to its strategy gameplay nature, there were MANY roles each player could fill. Player one would be the commander, building units. Players 2-5 could all fill various scouting, defense, offense roles, in a number of different unit types. There was a sense of heirarchy, which is very important for meaningful co-operative play. There needs to be direction, purpose, roles to fill..... something that naturally occurs in team-vs-team multiplay, but is never seen in FPS co-op games to date. (Since monsters just sit around waiting for YOU to come get them, the gameplay is nothing more than run-and-gun)

Even co-op games such as RPGs and System Shock 2 tend to have little reason to truly communicate with each other to succeed. In RPGs, the gameplay is so simplistic that you can usually just walk into a battle room and start whacking monsters with the other party members..... and that's all. No real cooperation.

Co-op play's real allure is that the AI *is* weak. That is the point. It's inferior, and destroying huge numbers of them gives people a sense of great accomplishment. This explains the huge success of console gaming... the AI is often simple and easy to kill. It's why people like seeing Legolas and Gimli count up the hundreds of Orcs they slay, and so forth. But mass killing without a purpose gets old...

Nibs: Winners?

Ant @ The Ant Farm: http://antfarm.ma.cx

Microsoft will do anything to help them sell xbox...zzzz lame now I know I wont be buying doom3, although I will still play it heh.

what a bunch of winers at the beggining of this thread.

The console kiddies can have thier coop, we pc'rs will get quake4.... and more....

Nice engine id...

JJ