Game Development & Mods

Game Development: Harder Than You Think - What makes you think that creating alternative worlds is all fun and games? Game development consultant Jonathan Blow rebutting this scathing accusation that we don't recall actually being leveled by anyone. Thanks Mike Martinez.
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11.
 
Re: Standards and Practices
Mar 1, 2004, 02:06
11.
Re: Standards and Practices Mar 1, 2004, 02:06
Mar 1, 2004, 02:06
 
This article was completely unecessary.

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Re: Standards and Practices
Mar 1, 2004, 00:59
10.
Re: Standards and Practices Mar 1, 2004, 00:59
Mar 1, 2004, 00:59
 
Obviously game designers have forgotten that games can be great, whether large or small, complex, or simple. Simply saying "Games are hard to make these days!" just goes to show a belief in the false mindset that 'Bigger and better is what game player wants today'. Players want to be entertained, and entertained in proportion to their money spent. The amazing thing is, you don't need complexity or game size to achieve this. The idea that games development today has to be the amazingly difficult thing is false. Games developent isn't harder than I thought- it's only as difficult as I want it to be.

9.
 
Re: Standards and Practices
Feb 29, 2004, 19:40
9.
Re: Standards and Practices Feb 29, 2004, 19:40
Feb 29, 2004, 19:40
 
Somebody came up with the model of the helicopter in halflife and Gabe Newell offered the first person to come up with a fun and interesting way to put it in the game a meal at a fancy restaurant. And all went their seperate ways and thought on this and eventually one came up with how it is implimented- and it became a particularly cool aspect of the game that no one had ever done in a fps before. It just doesn't seem like such a situation would come up in the ironed out by-the-numbers process you seem to be describing. I think the gleam will fade from several peoples' eyes in the industry as they are assigned their place on the assembly line. I could be mistaken though.

Edited for clarity
This comment was edited on Feb 29, 19:49.
8.
 
And your point is?
Feb 29, 2004, 18:18
8.
And your point is? Feb 29, 2004, 18:18
Feb 29, 2004, 18:18
 
Nonickname,

Sure, the idea that as things get larger/more detailed there's an excelerating amount of work required to complete it. That said, I'm not sure I understand your point.

Are you suggesting that because thing become exponentially more complicated, improved structures and techniques are necessary to deal with the added complexity? If so, then I would certainly agree with you.
ZigZang
7.
 
Re: Standards and Practices
Feb 29, 2004, 18:13
7.
Re: Standards and Practices Feb 29, 2004, 18:13
Feb 29, 2004, 18:13
 
With all due respect rist3903, I think the notion that games are more art than software is why many resist using more traditional software development practices. And frankly this is pure bunk. Games require artistic assets (textures, modeling, animation, etc) and creative thought and energy, but the fact remains, a game is an application and an application is nothing more than requirements, features, and design. I'm sure every game studio prepares a game design document, project plan in MS Project, etc but I don't think that is sufficient anymore.

I think to a large degree why so much of game development is "iterative testing" is because developers set out not knowing in sufficient detail what it is they are trying to create, they just think that they will know when they get there. That's a great way to do it when you have only 5-10 people working on a game but imagine trying to manage 100-150 developers working for 3 years (which is very common in non-game development) with that approach. This is a hard-learned lesson other developers have already learned.
ZigZang
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No subject
Feb 29, 2004, 18:08
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No subject Feb 29, 2004, 18:08
Feb 29, 2004, 18:08
 
If someone has stupid ideas, it dosen't matter how intellegently they are implemented, they will still be stupid ideas.

Imagine if we simulated reality, but we only did it on emulated macroscopic scale with no atomic interactions. Well much like we do now a days with video games, minus the actual ablity to touch, and smell and all that other VR bulldada. Now imagine all those atomic interactions are added, the game would become many times more realistic and complex. See let me try and explain this simply.


You have a cube who's sides measue 1 inch, leaving you with a surface area of 6in^2 and a volume of 1in^3. Now if you double the cubes sides you end up with 12in^2 and 4in^3. And if you use 4in sides you end up with 24in^2 and 16in^3. Is anyone noticing something with that mellon they call a skull? 1in sides have a ratio of 6:1 (surface to volume), 2in sides have a ratio of 3:1, and 4in sides have a ratio of 3:2. Now as that ratio goes up the understanding is that more work is required to achieve the desired results. Or also known as the law of diminishing returns.

Now if you still have trouble using your brain, too fucking bad. Maby someone else who cares will bother to explain it to you in more simple terms.

"I'm too much of a narcisist to really hate stupid people."
5.
 
Re: Standards and Practices
Feb 29, 2004, 17:11
5.
Re: Standards and Practices Feb 29, 2004, 17:11
Feb 29, 2004, 17:11
 
I dunno. Sounds like trying to assembly line art to me.

4.
 
Re: Standards and Practices
Feb 29, 2004, 16:56
4.
Re: Standards and Practices Feb 29, 2004, 16:56
Feb 29, 2004, 16:56
 
FourPak,

I completely agree. Why does gaming so persistantly resist structured development practices? I know game development is different in some ways (amount of art and design, audio, etc.) and some argue that it detracts from individual creativity, but that is pure bunk. If anything it allows for greater freedom and more time for creative effort when processes, deliverables, schedules, dependancies are fully understood and accounted for.
ZigZang
3.
 
Re: Standards and Practices
Feb 29, 2004, 16:54
3.
Re: Standards and Practices Feb 29, 2004, 16:54
Feb 29, 2004, 16:54
 
I don't agree with #1 at all. Modern games are so large that good developers have little choice but to use formal standards as they apply. The problem is that game development is different than traditional development that facilitates extensive unit testing...game development is more strongly iterative, and testing is not a boolean process, but rather a subjective process... ie. it is closer to GUI testing (which if you have ever tried to write unit tests for, is largely a shot in the dark). Also, not all games are OO, which is the foundation for most modern SE practicum.

#2 I disagree with even more strongly. I would like to see you try to develop a 3D game without creating diagrams similar to one of Blow's. Like Chris Crawford predicted, the best Game Designers are the artists who are trained in modern CS practicum. The rarity of these individuals is one reason why truly great games are so few and far between.

2.
 
No subject
Feb 29, 2004, 12:19
2.
No subject Feb 29, 2004, 12:19
Feb 29, 2004, 12:19
 
This kind of commentary, obviously written by someone who feels his job isn't taken as seriously as it should be (by someone), illustrates a common problem in current game development: knowing the difference between a great game and one that's only average or poor. In short, you can perfectly align all of the mechanical elements in a game so that everything appears optimal on paper--and wind up with a boring game that stinks and few want to purchase.

I call this trend of putting flow-charts and mechanical descriptions and "game component" lists at the top of the game-development heap: Lack of Imagination (LoI.) People without the scope of imagination needed to oversee development of a great game, a game that enthralls, entertains, and is "immersive" (what a cliche' that word has become), a game that draws the player in from start to finish, frequently fall back into what I call "super-organization."

That is, they lose sight of the game they are developing and become unable to grasp it as a concept at some point, and so they attempt to break it down into all kinds of imaginary components to which they affix labels and which they arrange into neat and tidy categories. It becomes a real case of being so fixated on a single tree that the forest as a whole becomes invisible. The question of "How does the game play--is it enthralling and entertaining?" is replaced by "Does the game follow the flow chart I have constructed?" That unfortunately is symptomatic of too many games at present, and is exactly why many of them don't sell any better than they do.

Game development should be a long process of creation from start to finish, imo. If the person overseeing the development of a game loses sight of the original concept and buries himself instead in minutiae pertaining to flow charts and other abstract simplifications, chances are good that the game will be much less than it could have been.

Game creation strikes me as much like writing a book. It's easy to tell when an author is enjoying his trade and feeling his story as he writes it because his story flows and draws the reader in. Conversely, it's also easy to tell when the same author is bored and is writing words simply to fill up pages. When what's emphasized in computer games is form as opposed to substance it generally results in only average to poor games. Programmers should not oversee game creation, and game designers should not be in the business of programming, much like it is in the movie industry where generally the better movies do not cast the director as the star. IMO, of course...


It is well known that I cannot err--and so, if you should happen across an error in anything I have written you can be absolutely sure that *I* did not write it!...;)
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1.
 
Standards and Practices
Feb 29, 2004, 12:15
1.
Standards and Practices Feb 29, 2004, 12:15
Feb 29, 2004, 12:15
 
The only thing wrong with game dev today is the same thing that's been wrong for 15 years: no one is willing to adopt and _enforce_ the formal Software Engineering standards and practices that are common in every Other development environment except games.

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