Explain it to you... ok. Well first, I'm going to drive to the store... you got me so far? Then I'll go into the store and grab the box that says Painkiller on it.. still with me? Ok, then I'll bring it to the check-out counter and give the cashier my bank card and say "Credit Please". Hopefully you can understand all this so far. I'll sign my name on the reciept and head back to my car.. can you hear me now? Good. Then I'll probably drive home seeing as how I'll probably be wanting to play my newly purchased game. Wake up, the best part is coming up. When I finally get back home I'll install Painkiller and play it.. yippie, horray! I hope you could follow this explanation as to how I'd buy Painkiller.

You're going to vote for Bush, aren't you?

Ahh, I was being sarcastic there Gandhi, sorry you missed that %).

Yeah, I guess I did not get the memo that specifies "%)" denotes sarcasm - I thought ";P" was the designated icon (;P ... no wait, %))

This should add some fuel to the fire on this whole popularity debate -

http://www.csports.net/index.aspx?p=News&story=181

You cannot make anything fool-proof. The fools are too inventive

I think he was asking "why," not "how."

Ahh, I was being sarcastic there Gandhi, sorry you missed that %). I'm not going to waste my time explaining to someone why I'm going to buy a game I like and they obviously don't. And as far as not buying PK, then don't, I really don't care :). I may buy UT2K4 someday myself, don't know yet, but it won't be for quite a while, if ever. But I certainly hope you enjoy yourself doing so, UT2K4 is worth the money if you don't already own UT2K3 (like I already told you). Whatever, to each their own, so just enjoy.

This comment was edited on Feb 24, 09:20.

Furious -

I think he was asking "why," not "how." Anyways, if I wanted to be scared playing an FPS, I would play System Shock 2 or Thief, and may be the Doom 3 alpha, not Painkiller.

Oh well, back to fragging on Onslaught!

You cannot make anything fool-proof. The fools are too inventive

But you're buying Painkiller?
Explain that to me...

Explain it to you... ok. Well first, I'm going to drive to the store... you got me so far? Then I'll go into the store and grab the box that says Painkiller on it.. still with me? Ok, then I'll bring it to the check-out counter and give the cashier my bank card and say "Credit Please". Hopefully you can understand all this so far. I'll sign my name on the reciept and head back to my car.. can you hear me now? Good. Then I'll probably drive home seeing as how I'll probably be wanting to play my newly purchased game. Wake up, the best part is coming up. When I finally get back home I'll install Painkiller and play it.. yippie, horray! I hope you could follow this explanation as to how I'd buy Painkiller.

So really, the only thing new to me with this UT2K4 release is Onslaught, and while it is fun, to me it simply is not worth $40.. or even $30... maybe $15 though. So it may be a while till it hits that bargin price, but by then, god willing, Tribes Vengence, Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 will be out and Painkiller and NWN: Hordes will fill the void till then. I can only buy so many games a year and I'm not going to buy a game twice.

But you're buying Painkiller?
Explain that to me...

Excuse me. You missed the point of my exaggeration; it was to demonstrate the wrongness of Lokust's opinion. I can read the press release as clearly as most, and yes, it does say "one of," not "the." I was disproving the idea that it says "best game evar." Context, please.

LOL, I thought that would get your goat, was just having fun dude, don't be hating

*ducks*

No it doesn't, it's says "one of the most popular game demo downloads of all time". As in, not the most downloaded evar.

Excuse me. You missed the point of my exaggeration; it was to demonstrate the wrongness of Lokust's opinion. I can read the press release as clearly as most, and yes, it does say "one of," not "the." I was disproving the idea that it says "best game evar." Context, please.

Thats easy nin

Oh, I understand...I just find it interesting the two mind sets are so different.

For the EA sports series, you're looking at new voiceovers (for announcers), new player skins, up to date stats (which, to be fair EA puts out updates for during the year), and (every few years) maybe a new graphics engine. I don't think that's worth $50, but I guess to a sports nut, it might be (they sell well enough, so...)

Contrast that to a FPS. I (personally) would expect new maps (I would suspect this would be the biggest time consumer), new skins, a refinement of weapons (not necessarily redesign everything, but at least fix the flaws/holes for the previous year, and maybe throw in something new), and (like the sports games) a nice new graphics renderer every few years, so it all looks jaw dropping.

And I agree with you - if they must go to a yearly format, (based on what improvements are listed above), I'm not paying $50 for it, either.

Three things in Epic's favor right now:

1. They are offering a $10 rebate for owners of last years version.

2. Last I checked, you can get either the standard or dvd version for $40 at EB. Assuming you owned last years version and chose to mail in the rebate, that's $30.

3. Epic / DE has put out (I believe) 2 bonus packs for each previous version of UT. I'm willing to bet (or at least hope) this will continue. It's a good PR move to the community, and it gets people to reinstall their game and play it a bit more.

Bottom line: We're on the same side of the argument. And for $30, I'm all over UT 2004.


http://www.depechemode.com/
This comment was edited on Feb 22, 21:42.

I find the mind sets between the sports gaming community and the FPS community interesting. Each year, EA pushes out games based on the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc and people buy them right up. But the shooter community expects a certain amount of added content and improvements before they'll buy it.

Thats easy nin, the sports gaming community buys Madden 200x (or whatever) every year because they want to simulate a season by 'becoming' their favorite sports star and taking their beloved team to the Championship. It's just not action but real life simulation. EA pretty much has to come out with a new game every year because new stars are recruited and added to rosters. Is it fair that they recharge $55 every year for some handful of new players? Well, that is certainly debateable but their media (no HDD or patching capabilites) does not compare to the PC's flexibility as far as expansions and or patches. UT2Kx has no memorable characters or 'real life' draw, UT is just a bunch of skins with f'ed up names running around pummeling each other with sci-fi projectile weapons. I don't think EPIC is "getting it" as to why EA Sports fans repurchase the Madden Football games or what have you every year, it's not even remotely comparable. EPIC should release a game maybe every other year and add some innovation to it instead of copying other dev houses. Do I expect all FPS's to be different? No, but they should a least make some attempt to stand apart not only from their previous showing but to externals as well. If EPIC wants to do a yearly release then it should be in an expansion format.

I find the mind sets between the sports gaming community and the FPS community interesting. Each year, EA pushes out games based on the NFL, NHL, NBA, etc and people buy them right up. But the shooter community expects a certain amount of added content and improvements before they'll buy it.

Don't get me wrong - I'm a FPS gamer, and I couldn't care less about the sports titles. And I DO expect more than just improvements if I'm supposed to buy the same shooter year after year. I just find it odd that one group continues to shell out cash year after year without much of a grumble, but the other group is much more hesitant.

edit: I predict, after a few years of hot and cold sales, the UT franchise will end up being published every other year. Which kinda makes the idea of "UT: <insert date here>" look silly (IE they're back to square one).

http://www.depechemode.com/
This comment was edited on Feb 22, 19:57.

You're shooting yourself in the foot because the two games are wholly dissimiliar.

Naw, it's more about economics and not being rich. You see, I bought UT2K3 (and enjoyed it somewhat) for ~$40 and played the Assault Mode that some talented MOD team made on EPICs lazy behalf. So really, the only thing new to me with this UT2K4 release is Onslaught, and while it is fun, to me it simply is not worth $40.. or even $30... maybe $15 though. So it may be a while till it hits that bargin price, but by then, god willing, Tribes Vengence, Half-Life 2 and Doom 3 will be out and Painkiller and NWN: Hordes will fill the void till then. I can only buy so many games a year and I'm not going to buy a game twice.

It says "We have 1.5 million downloads--most downloaded demo evar!"

No it doesn't, it's says "one of the most popular game demo downloads of all time". As in, not the most downloaded evar.

Hey Alan,

Does the Classic Weapons feature use the old UT99 set? And, how well are the old weapons translated to the new engine? Do they have the same feel as the original UT?

I don't know off the top of my head what the number is but it is at default for internet players and 2x default for lan players. Seems to work fine.

What's your maxclientrate set at for your servers?

This comment was edited on Feb 21, 13:53.

Hey, I just thought I would throw in a little defense of the netcode. This is a very CPU intensive game to host but it isn't as bad as some people are saying. We are hosting 3 onslaught servers simultaniously. One is a 20 player, one is a 12 player and the third is a 16 player. The first two are on an athlon 2500+ box doing nothing else and the last is on a P4 1.4ghz box doing nothing else. We are running 95-98% utilization when the 2500+ box is maxed(32 players). We has previously had it set to 24 and 16 but had to turn it down because at that level there would be server lag. 20 and 12 seems about the top it can handle. At that level we get no lag even when things get busy. Check us out out if you don't believe me. Sort servers by name and look for "CWRU: Fat Pipe Party". We have also thrown in alternate link configurations on a couple servers so things have some more variety.

We got most of our office into the onslaught and A&D maps, about 20 some odd people and had a blast Friday evening. Say what you want, it's still one of the best multiplayer FPS options to come along in a long while.

Can't wait to see some other Assault maps, I LOVE that level!

they failed to mention that CliffyB downloaded it 500,000 times...

Well I just hit the netcode issue. Your statement that Atari doesn't admit to bad netcode issues with Onslaught is untrue. They do acknowledge problems with server CPUs being maxed on High end Xeon processors at 24 players. If you noticed, Atari only runs 16 player servers for onslaught. Expect Epic to do some optimizing before shipping the final product. Although to be honest, Onslaught scales well. It can be just as fun 3 on 3 as it is 12 on 12. Big servers aren't necessary.