Although it shouldn't be necessary to rely on the mod community to get a good campaign together in the first place.

Ooh, fully agreed, in most cases. But if the original intention was to allow the mod community to make whatever type of campagin they desire in the first place, relying on them to get a good one together is in some ways a fulfillment of the original designer intention.

D&D Online will have relatively smaller server populations (under 1000). Parties will be small, probably no more than 8 players. Combat will primarily take place in instanced dungeons they can farm onto separate servers. This should cut back on lag and allow collision detection.

I played Neocron for a bit. The combat isn't as real time as I would like. No matter how good your aim was, the final outcome was still determined by player stats. The "real time" in this case is only a client side illusion.

Although I think my favorite aspect of Neocron (and the reason I stopped playing) was that the GM flag was on the client and not the server. Once the hackers figured it out, all hell broke lose.

For instance, you had to attract followers to gain power

You could do that in AC1 - another fine Microsoft project.

full on collision detection

I'd love to see it but how in the world do you overcome lag from so many different machines spread across the internet? Collision detection is like the holy grail for MMORPGs isn't it?

Mythica also wanted players to feel like gods. You didn't start out killing bunnies, you started out as a god with godlike powers. Mortals should fear you. That's what they were going for.

Call it what you will - if the thing only has 5% of your armor and hitpoints and you have to kill 5 bajillion of them to hit level 10 - it's still a bunny.

This comment was edited on Feb 15, 21:13.

Okay, it doesn't have nearly everything you're looking for but Neocron has PvP real time combat, it's sci fi, has robots and vehicles.

MMO = Mad Max Online

Tee hee hee, nice one

No elves, goblins or swords... just killer robots, freakish mutants, squealing tires, destructible environments, Havok 2 physics, radioactive fallout, scripted storyline and PvP battles, and ion cannon satellite strikes?
Does that sound intriguing to anyone?

Well, it does to me. MMO = Mad Max Online

No elves, goblins or swords... just killer robots, freakish mutants, squealing tires, destructible environments, Havok 2 physics, radioactive fallout, scripted storyline and PvP battles, and ion cannon satellite strikes?
Does that sound intriguing to anyone?
*crosses fingers*

E3 should be fun

They're also only giving out XP for group missions.

Awww shucks. I had high hopes for AD&D-O. I immediately resent having to group to gain XP. With the PnP I didn't have to group to get XP. Sure, the nature of the game is based about groups but there was always the option for a strongly aligned character to gain the eye of the DM by playing in character and earning appropriate XP, even while under the noses of his "comrades". AD&D is about role-playing, I thought. The MMORPG is a cash-in by the sound of it.

I did play EQ for 3 or 4 years and it had an awful lot right. The grouping in that game was amazing. But you could also solo if you wanted to. It was slow and painful but if that was what you wanted to do, you could. I hate to see games FORCING anyone into roles because it suits THEM.

"It seems to me the only new form of this gameplay any one is offering is the "instanced" dungeon or play area."

Agree, however, Mythica had a few other differences in the gameplay. For instance, you had to attract followers to gain power, either by being kind to them or by being ruthless. Sound familiar? Reminds me of Black & White. And although B&W sucked, the idea was interesting.

Mythica also wanted players to feel like gods. You didn't start out killing bunnies, you started out as a god with godlike powers. Mortals should fear you. That's what they were going for. The game was also built around norse mythology, not elves and fairies as so many believe. It also sounded like they were going to have some gore in the game (decapitations), layered armor, etc. Lots of little eye-candy additions.

Anyway, I'm disappointed that it got cancelled. The MMORPG market is indeed saturated, but Mythica actually looked different.

The jig's up!

The jig is up, the news is out
They finally found me
The renegade who had it made
Retrieved for a bounty
Never more to go astray
This'll be the end today
Of the wanted man

Yeah, the problem is that they tried to do just that with Neverwinter Nights. Damn fine game, and possibly the best PC D&D game in existence, but it's just so friggin hard to develop modules for it.

If Neverwinter Nights had the immersion factor of a first-person perspective (or does it with the new expansions?), it might approach what I'm looking for. Although it shouldn't be necessary to rely on the mod community to get a good campaign together in the first place.

"The things I would like to see in an MMORPG, real time combat and players having some real effect on the game world just isn't possible under the current infrastructure. "

Ultima X: Odyssey will have real-time combat.

Hold your opinions on D&D Online until E3. Turbine has said they're going to use the Havok 2 engine to have full on collision detection. They're promising to make it feel as close to d20 combat as possible.

They're also only giving out XP for group missions. There won't be advancement from monster killing or soloing.

This is only a few things they've revealed from Game Banshee interviews. If they can throw in some DM tools then I see real innovation but it won't be for almost 2 years.

Hopefully it's broadband only...

D&D Online is fucking vaporware, and will be gay

If you want that just play goddamn EverQuest

I agree with that Falling, but don't forget Trade Skills! You can't call a MMORPG if it introduces a fairly boring method of trade skills, they seem to be the hot ticket on all the "next gen mmorpg"

I question the term "next gen MMORPG." It seems to me the only new form of this gameplay any one is offering is the "instanced" dungeon or play area. That's actually something you see now in EQ, AO, AC2 and others.

My point is that until the amount of bandwidth readily available to the average user is substantially increased, MMORPGs are destined to stay exactly where they are at.

The things I would like to see in an MMORPG, real time combat and players having some real effect on the game world just isn't possible under the current infrastructure.

Yep, D&D Online is the only other MOG beside Mythica that's moving in the right direction. This sucks badly. Mythica was the first true next gen MMORPG as well. They've alerady put over 3 years into it. Fucking beta was supposed to start in March.


"The ability to quote is a serviceable substitute for wit."
- W. Somerset Maugham

after reading the faq's for both WoW and Ultima X:Odyssey, those are the only 2 games that I can see that will change the genre (with Ultima having a slight advantage in the gameplay department, and WoW having a strong fan-base). Will it be a huge change? Probably not, but it will definitely be a change in the right direction.

While cool games like this go under...

What a bummer

Combat Flight Sim 3 didn't sell worth a crap, due in large part to IL-2 Stormivik being so superior it wasn't funny. As for Train Simulator, the first didn't sell hardly any copies, which makes me wonder who was smoking what to even suggest a sequel. Microsoft went on to put out the excellent Flight Sim 2004 so unlike EA(Remember Janes) at least they didn't scrap their entire Sim franchise. If I'd been on the MS board of directors I would've canned these title as well. MS couldn't risk another AC2 like flop. AC1 is still more popular than it's sequel and that didn't bode well for anything to follow. Remember MS has share holders that they are responsible to so of course the bottom line is profit. You can't be in business and not want to make a buck. Those that think they should just go ahead and make for us gamers have really got they head up they're arse! Businesses are here to make money and guess what? ALL gaming companies want to make money. If a title won't make it....it gets canned. This is just the real world.