Huh...either you guys haven't reached 5th grade and heard of "organization", or you've got such a short attention span that you switch games every 5 minutes.

It's nice that you're all superior to the rest of the world and everything, but the rest of us are dealing with reality.

Frankly, I don't switch playing games very often. I usually stick with one game for a long time (several weeks or months) and so the CD happily sits there in the drive. Of course, when I do want to go play another game then I have to find the right freaking CD for it -- which has probably been buried under other stuff in the meantime. And I'm pretty damned organized and anal when it comes to these things. It winds up being a disincentive to play though, and that's rather contrary to what the gave developers should want (note, I said developer, not publisher).

And heavens forbid that you discover that the CD has a scratch on it... maybe from a toddler who decided it was bright and shiny and fun to play with as a frisbee? Of course, I'm sure the publisher will be happy to send you a replacement. As long as you're happy to pay for a whole new copy of the game.

they're doing it because PC games are the least profitable of ANY format.

Got any numbers to prove that, or did you just pull that out of your ass? Don't quote GameStop numbers either -- that's a company that caters to console gaming. If you want to talk sales numbers, talk BestBuy, CompUSA, etc. Or, better yet, show numbers from a developer that caters equally to the console and PC market (good luck!).

Console users are far more likely to buy a game than to steal it.

As are PC users, contrary to your unsupported allegations. Console users are also very likely to just rent a game, which is illegal in most states for PC software, and definitely dampens console sales (yes, a rental is more revenue than piracy, but it also means fewer sales to people willing to pay money; most pirates wouldn't pay if they couldn't pirate).

wipe every illegit piece of software from your machine and you MIGHT actually have a foot to stand on

Ok. Done. That took me all of... no time at all. And that included illegal MP3s, videos, and any other content you care to think of.

Feel free to get back up anytime you feel like it. Falling off your high horse must hurt like hell.

I don't see what's wrong with PB refusing to let you use its software (PB) becuase you are trying to hack PB itself. This sounds like a good thing, not a bad thing.

Besides which, you don't need the CD in the drive if you have a clean CD image and a CD image drive tool such as Nero, Daemon, or CD Creator's. (Many OEM PC's are coming standard equipped with a Virtual CD drive now, actually, due to the pre-installation of Nero or Creator by the OEM)

Huh...either you guys haven't reached 5th grade and heard of "organization", or you've got such a short attention span that you switch games every 5 minutes.

Yes, I find having to put the right cd in is a pain. Not a pain like "you gotta call the maker to get a new key every time you reinstall due to a massive OS failure" (hooray, windows XP), but yes, bobby, it takes a whole 12 seconds to find the disc, put it in, and let it spin up. I'm sorry for those 12 seconds of your life, you will never ever get them back.
You idiots think game companies are doing CD protection because "a couple people" are stealing their games? no. they're doing it because PC games are the least profitable of ANY format. Too many people think it's A-ok to just pop over to that warez site and yank down a game. Console users are far more likely to buy a game than to steal it. I don't know the percentage, so I won't make up numbers. YES, you can claim "console userz r dumbe", and from the repeated sales of identical football games every year, I'm inclined to agree. But publishers pay attention to who buys and who doesn't, and they don't give a shit how smart their buyers are.

So the next time you cry about Halo for the PC being a crappy port, or why a game insists on checking the cd every 5 minutes, wipe every illegit piece of software from your machine and you MIGHT actually have a foot to stand on. Otherwise, you ARE the cause, so shut the fuck up and deal with it, even with your legit software.

And to whoever lets their friends play on their computer without you around...who's the idiot there? Certainly not your friend, who apparently knows better to use their OWN machine to cheat online.

I too got tired of all the crap involving switching CDs just so I can play a game I rightfully bought. For awhile I just ran multiple CD drives, but I've since switched to Alcohol 120%. I tried Daemon Tools and a couple others a year or so ago, but Alcohol seems a lot better about actually working -- I'm still using the trialware version, but I'll register it soon.

Is it easy to do ?

The only thing I find annoying is that you have to find out what the copy protection used on the game is -- it can't automatically figure it out. Basically this means doing a search or two on Google or their forums. Not a huge deal.

straight forward image taking minutes depending on speed of drive?

Straight forward image. Speed obviously depends on your drive, but the two games I've made images of so far (BF1942, KOTOR) took ~10 minutes on a 52x CD-RW drive. Takes longer than a normal CD because they do at least two passes and have to do error detection magic in the process. Certainly doesn't take 4 hours though.

As for disk space -- it's 640MB or less per game. Yeah, that's some space. It's inconsequential to me, and probably to a lot of others. If you're low on disk space you can get a 40G drive for $20 or a 80G drive for $40. Low on cash? Bet you can scrape that much up. Don't eat out for a week or don't go out one weekend and that'll probably be the money right there.

It'd be nice if game developers just trusted their paying customers, but that doesn't seem to be happening. If you really don't like it, quit buying games that have CD protection (which, BTW, Q3 and UT2k3 both had... the CD requirement wasn't removed until at least a year after they came out).

I presume there is some "official" user forum for BF1942, might well be worth having a petition type thread there. It's possible they will consider the cd-check to have more disadvantages than benefits now - for both them and legit users.

Personally I think CD checks seem so pointless for MP anyway, illigitimate users can bypass them easily enough with pretty much no concern for their key being stolen (its not like its their key anyway). Yet legit users either have the PITA of being a game disk DJ (nice term from below so im stealing it) or can take a risk of using key-stealing pypass hacks. Surely then the net result is counter productive, resulting in more keys available for pirates while being a pain to genuine users?

Protecting the CDkey on the other hand is an anti-piracy measure that actually has significant benefits to users, especially if Punkbuster is being used, as a one way hash of it is what is used for admins to be able to effectively ban cheaters and TK lamers. Any server admin previously faced with trying to ban some lamer who just keeps coming back, using an IP of a major domestic ISP will LOVE the guid ban of Punkbuster. Cheat detections are practically just a bonus feature compared to this, and the strange thing is surely games dont even need Punkbuster to be able to allow admins to ban by GUID?

Heck Half-Life never required a cd for multiplayer - and look at it played online by more people than any other game in history.

If you're implying that Half-life's multiplayer success was due to its lack of requiring a CD in the drive over its massive single-player base and the resulting mods (Counter-strike and Day of Defeat in particular), you're crazy.

If you aren't, then you need to proofread your posts for clarity starting right now.

Ive got quite a hefty amount of space on my comp, and this talk of imaging the BF1942 cds with alcohol or nero sounds like a good idea cos it does my tits in launching the game from ASE when theres only 1 player slot left and the damn game takes so long to spin the cd up to check for it that the space gets filled by the time im in.

Is it easy to do ?

I remember years back i clone copied a CD with copy protection and it was an overnight job cos it took like 4 hours to do, is this the same or is it a straight forward image taking minutes depending on speed of drive?

Sigh....

This has nothing to do with something as vitally important as "running red lights". How about I help you with a little more applicable example?

If you go to a bar or a club and start a fight, or cause trouble with other paying customers, that bar can ban you from entering again. They don't want you upsetting their business, so it's completely within their rights to ban you. Of course, you can always go to the other bar down the road... y'know, the one with all the other unsavory folks that caused trouble at the good bars?


In other words:
1) PunkBuster is good
2) CD requirements are annoying and should have a workaround made.
3) Think PunkBuster's "too extreme"? Have fun on the non-PB servers, 'cause I certainly won't meet you there.
This comment was edited on Feb 9, 06:34.

Personally, I have given up on NoCD patches because an (Alarming) number of them now, particularly ones for very popular games, actually contain nefarious code within them to actually STEAL your legit CD keys (among other things). At first I thought this was mostly propaganda put out by the developers to scare you into not using them but after some decompiling/investigation it indeed is true in some cases. However, I still do everything I can to run a duplicate copy of whatever so the original does not get wear and tear/scratches ect (from all the swapping I do, but having 3 CD/DVD drives makes it easier, at least for me). But there is a very fine line between copy protection and inability for a drive to simply read the CD because of it. As we have seen increasingly common these days (Including BF1942 early on) As far as the hacks I always refer to a Quote I have kept for a couple years from one of the programmers at Pandemic Studios:

"Nathan Mates: Programmer for Pandemic

Cheating is only the refuge of the incompetent, the lazy, or the scum of the earth, and none of those are excuses for cheating in a multiplayer game.You wanna shaft yourself in a single player game, go ahead, but your "right" to cheat stops when you play against another human, period."

Wow, Punkbuster is way to extreme - This is what happens when Extremists run the gaming industry/cheat detection. They think that doing something like this will help if anything it will deter gamers from playing. I don't play battlefield right now because it takes so long to find the cd in my book and load it up - I'd rather jump into a game of gunbound or counter-strike. All the smart gaming companies Valve, Unreal Tournament guys, and ID software don't require cd's. Heck Half-Life never required a cd for multiplayer - and look at it played online by more people than any other game in history. Punkbuster isn't perfect and i imagine some people may be caught when they aren't using a cheat. THe no-cd argument is good, I think that assuming someone has 600 megs to spare is rediculous - Not everyone has money to blow. - On the subject of CD-Key and protection why don't we add on top of the CD-key, cd detection and punkbuster a dongle that you have to plug into your usb port. Simply rediculous - Legit Customer don't like to pay for the wrong doings of the few. I think that their should be some chance for removal. I know that during the days of counter-strike - punkbuster reported cheaters that weren't cheating. - Banning a GUID forever is like saying "you ran a red light" you can never drive ever again - I mean comon - i hate cheaters but i also know people have idiots for friends who use their game without their knowledge - I think the banning should be left up to server admins. I also think that this is just another way for the gaming industry to get more of our hard earned cash. - Conspiracy THEORY!

Heck, I know exactly what the hackers are going to do - they are going to on ebay sell their copy and go get another copy and some unlucky bloke is going to be stuck WITHOUT a working KEY for almost all the servers out there. - i mean think about it for two seconds - I think you'll see that this is a bad choice on the part of punkbuster. I hope that they go bankrupt and get beat by some other company that really think before they do things.

All the wrong people are in power...

This no-CD business is getting really stupid.

WTF, I don't need to have my CD to start MS Office? I don't recall Photoshop ever asking for a fucking disc. Shouldn't the makers of these much more expensive software treat our computers as their own personal jukeboxes as well?

These bastage game distributors should only just ask for a CD if you are playing the single player version or something. They are AUTOMATICALLY checking that you bought a CD when you go online and identify your CD Key. Total Idiocy. I blame EA 100% for this crap. You think DICE doesn't understand that CD checking is pointless for online gaming?

I am gonna get Alcohol or Nero working. id software had the right idea when they eliminated the CD checking in Quake III Arena about 1 year after the game came out. I can only hope they do something at least that cool with Doom 3.

With huge hard drives these days, a spare 600megs ver hacking a exe file. Plus you dont have to copy all disks. Only copy Disk one from the original game. I dont want PB to think that a moded exe is a new form of hack or something. I agree that EA/Dice should drop the whole check cd for multiplayer bull crap. I feel bad for people who get kicked by PB for no-cd hacks. I just showing a option before PB kicks people for no good reason.

I realise that one could copy the cd's and then mount them with alcohol but the space required to copy three cd's verses a 4 or 5 meg copied EXE is not much of a trade off.
Some games won't even play if they 'detect' alcohol or some of the other burning software on your system, legit copies or not, it makes no difference.

Regardless of what the punks say on their various websites, none of their hacks are undetectable by PunkBuster.

Unfortunately, while no cheat is "undetectable", they are quite often "not detected yet". And after each PB update can be made so again with little work. Oh well... it is better than nothing.

You have to be messing with Punkbuster itself to get banned from all PB servers. Otherwise it's local (or parhaps shared among admins via website). There was a good explanation of that below.

*edit* Post #5 as it so happens.

This comment was edited on Feb 8, 19:10.

I've never had a problem using nocd.exe's but I can't recall if I've ever used them on PB servers. It won't hurt to try though, you'll find out soon enough.

Won't hurt to try? If you find out soon enough that you are banned from all PB servers, I'd call that a risky thing to try...

I've seen more BF1942 players crying "Hacker!" than ever before. In fact, prior to PunkBuster, I don't really recall anyone accusing someone of hacking. Did these people come out of the woodworks after 1.6 or what?

Just make a image file from your original cds and let Alcohol use cd emulation. Works everytime and you only need to copy one disk.

Nero can do this also with ImageDrive. I've never had a problem using nocd.exe's but I can't recall if I've ever used them on PB servers. It won't hurt to try though, you'll find out soon enough. I think CoD has the right idea by not requiring the CD for MP. It is only required for SP. Cd keys are suppose to take care of the MP aspect of piracy, that's what they're for, aren't they?

I also like PB's "zero tolerance" stance on screwin' with their utility. I hope CoD employs them in their next patch.

I'am in for a permanent ban of all massive TK's too!

but this noCD kicking is crap. i see myself playing this game lesser in the future cause of this. (same happened to raven shield since PB..)
i use only noCD's, cause i'am too lazy to grab out the right CD and playing DJ everytime i want to play a different game.
I think a unique ID/code is enough for copy protection of such games!

I doubt DI and EA care that much. After all, anyone who's going so far as to actually hack the PB software probibally didn't pay for the game anyway, and even if they did, EA's already got thier money. And I have to imagine that this is a very small group anyway, so it won't effect the player counts enough to swing anyone who doesn't own the game yet.