FBI Half-Life 2 Raids

A weblog post mentioned in a Slashdot story apparently gives the account of a San Francisco native's encounter with the FBI as the fed's raided his home looking for evidence in connection with the theft of the Half-Life 2 source code (story). According to Slashdot (since the site has been, naturally enough, Slashdotted), the blog includes a scan of the FBI's search warrant. Thanks Captain Trips.
View : : :
137 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 2.
Newer [  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ] Older
117.
 
Re: Source code =/= beta
Jan 20, 2004, 19:33
Re: Source code =/= beta Jan 20, 2004, 19:33
Jan 20, 2004, 19:33
 
What's this guy's job?
He develops software for Ximian for Linux (http://www.ximian.com/). He seemed pretty confident in his blog of his innocence.
I have enough old parts from previous computers lying around that you could argue I have 6 computers (although only 3 are functional) and I don't even run multiple operating systems or develop software (not professionally at least). I don't find it hard to believe at all that someone developing software for Linux could have 9 computers.

116.
 
Re: Anybody with...
Jan 20, 2004, 19:12
Re: Anybody with... Jan 20, 2004, 19:12
Jan 20, 2004, 19:12
 
9 computers in their home office is doing something the law doesn't like.
You mean software development?

115.
 
shut up
Jan 20, 2004, 18:51
shut up Jan 20, 2004, 18:51
Jan 20, 2004, 18:51
 
People, please don't encourage Moog. Just act as if he doesn't exist. If you think he might post something of some interest, go back and read some of his earlier posts. If he's not insulting someone's intelligence, he's posting as though everyone has been waiting for his definitive answer. He used to frustrate me because of his know-it-all attitude. Now he just makes me laugh. Damn, where did this guy receive his education? I would, no should have to go there. This guy probably has a degree in trivia (history), no friends, has never been in a real fight and feels that if he asserts himself on a board he'll gain friends, self-confidence, and the attention that daddy never showed. *tear* He posts numbers and percentages that he probably fabricates, hoping no one has the time or will to find out. He has seemingly first-hand knowledge of occurences all over the world, when he has probably NEVER been there and sure as hell hasn't experienced war or said acts personally. Most of his statements are LUDICROUS and argumentative. He'll tell you about how much he loves America and Americans then will contradict himself by saying how dumb the people are and how he is here to educate all. He doesn't even have the integrity to stick to his comments. For someone who doesn't even live in the US, he sure does spend a lot of time studying it. Or maybe he just cuts and pastes from other fanatical websites. He is hyper-critical of everyone who questions him, and his myopic nature keeps him from acknowledging his own mistakes. The guy traipses around this website like we're all school children ready for a lesson. I advise everyone that reads his posts to go back and see what I mean. I usually get along with most people, and I could probably agree with SOME of the statements he makes. It's all in the delivery and that is where he loses me. Fuck moog. To quote Penn & Teller; "he's bullshit." From now on i'm just going to ignore his verbal masturbation and I'll never pay attention to him again.

114.
 
Re: Quick observation
Jan 20, 2004, 16:26
Re: Quick observation Jan 20, 2004, 16:26
Jan 20, 2004, 16:26
 
" You are presuming that the man that was searched was guilty. What if he is innocent? Should he not be PRESUMED innocent? "
No, he is presuming the dude was part of a criminal investigation, in which his computers may be, or contain evidence. Think of it this way: Man stabs you. The only proof other than "you say x, he says y" is the knife in question. This knife is the property of the alleged assailant. What do the cops do? Tell the dude he stands to be investigated for the crime, but leave the knife in his possession? Or what about pot growers? When the cops raid a grow op, they do not leave the lights, ballasts, hydroponic equipment pending trial... they take it all. Even when the growers are presumed innocent (which they are untill proven otherwise).

Seizing possible evidence in a criminal investigation, regardless of the fact the possible evidence belongs to a presumed innocent man (which, since the dude isn't in jail, he is), is standard operating procedure for law enforcement. Get over it.

We cannot eat solar panels, nor solar power.
We cannot eat wind power, nor wind turbines.
92% of the world relies on eating oil, via fertilizer, pesticides, transport, and irrigation.
How long until oil is too valuble for farming?
www.oilcrash.com
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
113.
 
Re: Quick observation
Jan 20, 2004, 16:12
Re: Quick observation Jan 20, 2004, 16:12
Jan 20, 2004, 16:12
 
"Remember that the purpose of laws is to protect our private property from unlawful search and seizure--theft. The irony here is that while some people see nothing wrong with hackers searching and seizing Valve's property, they think its terrible that the FBI might search and seize the hacker's property. It's pretty funny when you think about how hypocritical that viewpoint is."


It's not hyporitical at all. You are presuming that the man that was searched was guilty. What if he is innocent? Should he not be PRESUMED innocent?

It's a shame someone took Valve's code, but what's worse if if they then turn around and destroy the life of an innocent man who had nothing to do with the crime. I'm protecting HIS rights, not the rights of a criminal.

In addition, Valve's source code is intangible. It was not stolen. It was copied. They still have access to it. This man on the other hand no longer has access to his computers. So he is worse off than Valve is now.


"If this person's computers were seized, there is no corroboration that it involves Valve at all. He might have "photochopped" the search warrants to include mention of Valve simply to cover up the fact, among his friends and associates, that his property was seized for other purposes, such as common computer credit-card fraud, or something similar."

That is pretty damn far fetched.


"Finally, a good concept for you to consider is that the value of your neighbor's private property is determined by the owner of that property, and nobody else"

That's funny, because when we were moving, the moving company damaged my television, which I had been given, and so did not have a receipt for, and they managed to pull a number out of their ass for how much it was worth. And then scrwed me by saying it was worth less than the deductible.

So no, you don't set the value of the property you own. The government and insurance companies do.

112.
 
Re: Consider this...
Jan 20, 2004, 15:01
Re: Consider this... Jan 20, 2004, 15:01
Jan 20, 2004, 15:01
 
Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor?

111.
 
Consider this...
Jan 20, 2004, 12:40
Flo
Consider this... Jan 20, 2004, 12:40
Jan 20, 2004, 12:40
Flo
 
It is a sad day for the gaming community. But before I shall begin my rant about the brutal "source code theft", I have one final thing I want you to consider: This is Chewbacca. Chewbacca is a Wookiee from the planet Kashyyyk, but Chewbacca lives on the planet Endor. Now, think about that. That does not make sense! Why would a Wookiee -- an eight foot tall Wookiee -- want to live on Endor with a bunch of two foot tall Ewoks? That does not make sense!

But more importantly, you have to ask yourself: what does that have to do with this case? Nothing. Ladies and gentlemen, it has nothing to do with this case! It does not make sense!

Look at me, I'm a gamer mourning the loss of major piece of software, and I'm talkin' about Chewbacca. Does that make sense? Ladies and gentlemen, I am not making any sense. None of this makes sense.
Supporter of the "Chewbacca Defense"
110.
 
Re: Quick observation
Jan 20, 2004, 11:28
Re: Quick observation Jan 20, 2004, 11:28
Jan 20, 2004, 11:28
 
Revenge is not the same as justice.

And if just "copying data" isn't bad, and you wouldn't prosecute anyone if they "copied data" from you, post your credit card numbers, social security number (or equivalent), name, address, and phone number here in the forum. Obviously copying data isn't a big deal to you, so what's the harm if you put that data out for us to copy? Is it really a big deal if anyone gets your "secrets"?


The hallmark of the criminal mind is usually that it's a bit dense, if you know what I mean...:)

Enforcing laws meant to protect private property is not about "revenge," it's about deterrent. When some people see that others are caught and punished for the very crime they have contemplated committing themselves, it will at the very least make them think twice about actually going through with their plan, if not deter them from it altogether. Most of the time, criminals consider themselves "smarter" than others--the jails are full of such brainiacs...:) Truly intelligent people toying with criminal concepts generally take the hint and are deterred.

Remember that the purpose of laws is to protect our private property from unlawful search and seizure--theft. The irony here is that while some people see nothing wrong with hackers searching and seizing Valve's property, they think its terrible that the FBI might search and seize the hacker's property. It's pretty funny when you think about how hypocritical that viewpoint is...:) Where the criminal is concerned it is only he who has any rights.

Finally, just because in your view what was taken from Valve is of no value, that hardly justifies its theft. Consider that governments around the world can print all of the money they like when they like, and yet it is still a crime to rob banks in every country on earth. It is also a crime to counterfeit money, as well, around the world. The reason the printing of money must be tightly controlled is because if it was OK for everyone to just print up as much money as he needed then all paper money would soon become worthless, and we'd have to revert to a barter system. It is the difficulty involved (work) in obtaining legitimate money that gives paper money its worth.

Likewise with computer software--just because it is "code" which can be easily copied has no relation to what it is worth to its *owners*--which would be Valve--not the hackers, in case you are confused. Laws exist for rational purposes, even if criminals cannot comprehend those purposes themselves...:)

Also, I must point out that

(a) We have no corroboration the story is even true and should get it before assuming the story as told is accurate

(b) If this person's computers were seized, there is no corroboration that it involves Valve at all. He might have "photochopped" the search warrants to include mention of Valve simply to cover up the fact, among his friends and associates, that his property was seized for other purposes, such as common computer credit-card fraud, or something similar.

Finally, a good concept for you to consider is that the value of your neighbor's private property is determined by the owner of that property, and nobody else. It's a good thing to know. If you can accept the idea that what belongs to your neighbor belongs to him and not to you, regardless of what you may think that property is worth, I can guarantee you a long and happy life entirely outside of the prison system...:)

This comment was edited on Jan 20, 11:33.
It is well known that I don't make mistakes--so, if you should happen across an error in something I have written, you can be confident in the fact that *I* did not write it.
Avatar 16008
109.
 
Re: KEEP QUIET
Jan 20, 2004, 11:02
Re: KEEP QUIET Jan 20, 2004, 11:02
Jan 20, 2004, 11:02
 
I'm confused by the argument that Valve would have been better off by not telling the community that their security had been compromised and their IP stolen. Withholding that information would mean that they were withholding prejudicial information from their shareholders (i.e. shareholders in Vivendi Universal).

Valve had a responsibility to disclose this information. To not disclose would have left them open to legal actions.


108.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 20, 2004, 11:01
Re: No subject Jan 20, 2004, 11:01
Jan 20, 2004, 11:01
 
Fair enough, Moog. I'm an idiot. Now you stop using the corps products. I assume you're reading this website on something you strung together from driftwood and ivy. :-p

On and the world would eat better if there wasn''t such a fuss about GM food.

107.
 
Re: Quick observation
Jan 20, 2004, 11:00
Re: Quick observation Jan 20, 2004, 11:00
Jan 20, 2004, 11:00
 
"Wrap your head around this. What if Valve hadn't USED the break in as an excuse to get a much needed six more months of development time, and instead had kept COMPLETELY QUIET ABOUT IT."

Valve didn't exactly jump right out and say all this had happened. They replied to messages stating that the code had been taken, and posted to the internet.

106.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 20, 2004, 10:27
Re: No subject Jan 20, 2004, 10:27
Jan 20, 2004, 10:27
 
Bill, you idiot, IBM (which halsy exemplified), already recieves billions of dollars of corporate welfare every year, and they still have cut thousands of jobs in the US and farmed them overseas. This is not because of overtaxation, it is a result of total greed.
"That's what you get when a civilization loses sight of the fact that greed is and always has been good"
Good point! This can be seen in action in the great civilization of Easter Island, the Roman Empire, the Ottoman empire, the English Empire, etc. Greed is currently the cause of 30 million children living in child poverty in the US, worldwide starvation, and will be the cause (barring the invention and quick implementation of fusion power) of billions of deaths over the next 50 years. Examples of how corporations work hard for you:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20040109/us_nm/economy_jobs_longterm_dc
http://www.timesunion.com/AspStories/story.asp?storyID=206929&category=BUSINESS&BCCode=&newsdate=1/10/2004
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&cid=668&e=16&u=/ap/jobless_claims

We cannot eat solar panels, nor solar power.
We cannot eat wind power, nor wind turbines.
92% of the world relies on eating oil, via fertilizer, pesticides, transport, and irrigation.
How long until oil is too valuble for farming?
www.oilcrash.com
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
105.
 
Re: Quick observation
Jan 20, 2004, 10:13
Re: Quick observation Jan 20, 2004, 10:13
Jan 20, 2004, 10:13
 
"Someone took some source code. Valve did NOT need to delay the game. The game would be pirated anyhow. "
Valve delayed the game so idiots like you who have foolishly put "Their entire lives" onto their computers, and are solely dependent on their computers (like morons), for income, communication, and life, would not get fucked over by exploitation of network code in the source. That, or they just weren't ready, but either way, with a leak of the net code, security issues become serious... for people like you.

We cannot eat solar panels, nor solar power.
We cannot eat wind power, nor wind turbines.
92% of the world relies on eating oil, via fertilizer, pesticides, transport, and irrigation.
How long until oil is too valuble for farming?
www.oilcrash.com
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
104.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 20, 2004, 10:09
Re: No subject Jan 20, 2004, 10:09
Jan 20, 2004, 10:09
 
Moog, I'm sure JN can speak for himself but I'm from the UK and what you're saying is just not true. The only taxes a corporation collects is VAT. Offset against the VAT spent acquirg raw materials. VAT is only paid on the difference. It's about the only tax you can guarantee getting and it's paid for by whoever ultimately buys the goods. (the equivalent of vat is sales tax in the US.)

103.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 20, 2004, 10:02
Re: No subject Jan 20, 2004, 10:02
Jan 20, 2004, 10:02
 
Halsy, I'm afraid you still haven't explained your alternative that will prevent the jobs being lost overseas. I said "if you tax corporations heavily they go elsewhere". Then you agreed with me, pointing out instances of this happening. What was your point? My point is it's already too expensive for most corporations to work solely in the US without being even harder on them.

102.
 
Re: No subject
Jan 20, 2004, 09:42
Re: No subject Jan 20, 2004, 09:42
Jan 20, 2004, 09:42
 
JOhn Nelson, you are a moron. In England, for example, Corporations are forced to pay 30% of total taxes collected, and CEOs have maximum wages... guess what? These corporations make so much money it still doesn't matter

We cannot eat solar panels, nor solar power.
We cannot eat wind power, nor wind turbines.
92% of the world relies on eating oil, via fertilizer, pesticides, transport, and irrigation.
How long until oil is too valuble for farming?
www.oilcrash.com
STAY RIGHT WHERE YOU ARE, GET OUT OF THAT BED AND GET DOWN ON THE FLOOR, GET OUTSIDE RIGHT NOW, RIGHT HERE: GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DONT CARE IF YOU'RE NUDE, GET DOWN ON THE CEMENT, I DON'T CARE IF ITS FREEZING! WHERES THE DRUGS, WE KNOW YOU GOT THE DRU
101.
 
Re: Not JUST a video game...
Jan 20, 2004, 09:24
Re: Not JUST a video game... Jan 20, 2004, 09:24
Jan 20, 2004, 09:24
 

This comment was edited on Jan 20, 09:30.
100.
 
Re: Not JUST a video game...
Jan 20, 2004, 09:15
Re: Not JUST a video game... Jan 20, 2004, 09:15
Jan 20, 2004, 09:15
 
This is a line that justifies the "authorities" view of things. It does not add up.

To blame hackers that, maybe, stole source code, for vivendi's problems is like blaming Saddam for the war in Iraq. It is a smokescreen. Iraq was invaded for oil. These hackers are being blamed for the gross mismanagement of Vivendi.

People here are gamers, they do not care about finances or Wall street. None of them will know enough to dispute what you say. If they were to investigate vivendi, and what has occurred over the past years, they would find that management basically drove the company into the ground while taking lots of money for themselves.

99.
 
Re: Too Funny...
Jan 20, 2004, 09:05
99.
Re: Too Funny... Jan 20, 2004, 09:05
Jan 20, 2004, 09:05
 
Swiffer has a whole lot of opinions for a large lack of knowledge.


Zdewd had it right - the loss of source code is much more drastic than the loss of the game. Yes, everyone will pirate it, anyway. But the engine would bring in more profit, allowing for better quality in the next product.

Not to mention it would allow for more games to be released using the engine. Now the engine's flaws are out there for all to see, which will lead to more powerful online cheats, degrading the experience for all.



I still don't think you have a point about Valve being in the wrong, either. If someone robs my house, and the police investigate the wrong person, I would not feel guilty. I did nothing wrong, I simply reported a crime. Rather, if I didn't report it and take the risk that someone might be wrongfully accused I'd feel bad when my neighbors get robbed as well, knowing that had I reported it the police might have caught the crook beforehand.

98.
 
No subject
Jan 20, 2004, 09:04
98.
No subject Jan 20, 2004, 09:04
Jan 20, 2004, 09:04
 
Gah! where's the soap? he mentioned programming in VB!

Swiffer:

It would have been stupidly negligent to spend a few days on Steam after the breakin and then release it. Off the top of my head you'd *at least* need to do a rundown of the stolen code and get a few programmers to team up and go through it for vulnerabilities, since you really don't want someone else to find a buffer overrun vulnerability in your source code while also having the ability to access all the online server lists, and then all the online player lists.

That would only be prudent and responsible, just so you don't distribute something that has the ability to track down and infect all your customers [remember, Steam interfaces with itself, but also with all the games that run it for messaging at the least, and as the model stands, even the single player will require people to be online to allow Steam access to verify them]

Steam performs the copy protection. If it were as simple a matter as just waving your hands and mentioning encryption, that might be fine, but there is some finer detail to consider. As you said, you need to stop people from generating the codes to validate a HL2 purchase on steam, but you've got more than just that as a problem. You're also quite likely trying to make sure that people can't get at the result of the one way hashing function you [I would have to guess] use to generate a unique identity for a computer.
They also probably have to consider the vulnerability of any of the algorithms that they use to known plaintext attacks, then doublecheck that no-one's got lazy anywhere (I'm sure most people familiar with the different versions of the enigma will be able to recall how despite a pretty robust design, some versions were implemented slightly differently with weaknesses, and how at some stages of use they were preceding the encrypted message with the key, repeated twice at the start)

You've also got to make sure you prevent people from simply finding where the game gets the ip of the central steam servers and then redirecting it to their own local and cut down server, which is programmed using the same steam code they now have in order to happily fool the game into thinking it's connected and authorised with the main servers, and that any bogus key they might have fed it was fine.

There's a lot of little things that Valve would have needed to consider. I can certainly see how your model of business might work with shadow / particle system code, but I think you make too many assumptions that their issues would be the same as yours across the board.
This comment was edited on Jan 20, 09:10.
137 Replies. 7 pages. Viewing page 2.
Newer [  1  2  3  4  5  6  7  ] Older