quote "This is the place where people would kill to work..."

iD Software is the last place I would want to work.

Max Payne is an example of a story driven game I didn't like much. The story was related with comic book type graphics that interupted the game. The story did nothing for me and got annoying to me. As did bullet time. But thats another issue. Also having to constantly stop and read this and that bit of info is very boring. It brings the excitment of the game to a hault. So I didn't find Dues Ex that fun. But System Shock 2 did it right.

Half Life I enjoyed emensly. They did a great job of relating the story through the action. You didn't need somthing to tell you everything that was going on. You experienced the experiment gone wrong. No one had to tell you. Then you picked up bits and pieces from Barney and the scientists. Which set up what you had to do next. Combined with very cool levels that broke up the usual run and gun stuff. In every level ther was somthing cool to do. Some obsticle to get around. Some thing that requierd an interesting decision. This is how you make a sci fi shooter. I only hope HL2 is as good and comes out someday soon.

Almost forgot one important thing. HL2, SS2, D2 and Quake1 all scared the bejeezis outa me. OOOOOOOOOOO

This comment was edited on Jan 12, 02:37.

The attraction with a video game like any other form of game should boil down to 2 things - Challenge and Reward.

Present a challenge and ALWAYS reward it.
There are numerous ways of challenging a player and numerous ways of rewarding a player.

Too many times story and dialogue cut in to the "action" and their very presence becomes a challenge on my sanity and attention span. The story in the metal gear series for example is just mind bogglingly tiresome. The action is stop-start and the rewards are yet more story. Dull.

The best example I've seen of late where a story serves to push things along at the right pace but very much plays second fiddle to the action is Prince of Persia (sands of time). Here we saw a love interest develop above the main story of power, greed and revenge. It was handled very well and didn't interupt the game's flow.
Without the story the game would have meant nothing to me.
But ultimately it was the feel-good factor that the game exuded through it's challenges and rewards that won it over.

More games should be like this.
Few games are worth their price tag these days.

Ironically the game I play most these days is Bomb Jack on the N-Gage whilst I'm having a crap.
Why? Because I want to beat my mate's high score.

Yes there were parts in Max Payne and Halo where there is some in-game dialogue on what to do, but they merely served to reinforce the storyline, not actually relate it.

The problem with both those games is that they required the player to come out of his gaming form so that the story could be told. This usually involves a cutscene or voiceover tying the maps together. If you took out those parts the game could still stand on it's own, and vice versa.

What I'm trying to get at are games that tell the story through the maps and the scenerios presented through scripting. Like the part in HL when the scientist tells you that the Marines are coming for a rescue attempt, but soon you find out for yourself that you have to defend yourself against them as well.

But the Doom3 e3 alpha was "just" leaked while the HL2 e3 alpha was stolen. There's a difference, I think.

There is certainly a difference in how both were released to the public, but theft is theft either way you look at it.

Um pancreas, I believe Halo and Max Payne both had strong storylines, and there is alot more then "passing hints at or totally disengaged" in any way shape or form. But I do agree with Unreal 2, as about halfway through the game I really cared less and less about the main character and more about seeing what else the Unreal Engine could offer in Enviroments and technology.

Don't get me wrong, if you can encourage someone to achieve those goals through a story then you have a winner. Like Half Life.

Those are the types of stories that blend well with the Shooter aspect. Sometimes games put too much faith in a massive backstory intent on futilely serving some higher purpose. One that makes only passing hints at or is totally disengaged to the whys and hows of a player's actions. Cases in point, Unreal 2, Halo, Max Payne. Certainly some of these stories are worth persuing for their own good (Hence the novelizations), but most players can probably set them aside while they blow stuff up if not ignore them totally.

While a good storywriter can add a layer of depth to the world and the characters of a developer's bland narrative, I think their main purpose should be more of structure than of form. They should make sure that the pacing of the game is just right, that tension builds up to a climactic event for example. The player should also know at all times why he is doing what and what higher purpose it will serve. A verbose cutscene explanation shouldn't be necessary if they can pull it off interactively through character scripting and level design. This integration of story and gameplay is what I believe the top FPS devs are aiming for.

Reguardless of it being a FPS, RTS, Hybrid, whatever I want the whole deal. Graphics, Gameplay, Fun and STORY.

That was the nice thing about Serious Sam, 20 bucks for mindless killing.

That's why I like games where I get a story, I mean I can only kill so many demons, nazi's, space critters before I get bored and shelf the game. Unless it's games like Duke Nukem, Armed and Dangerous or Giants, cause Humor can fill in the mindlessness.

There was a 20 meg patch that pretty much cured Unreal 2's issues (for me at least)... I found it to be a decent, if uninspired single player fps. Visually nice though. And if you haven't tried it, the free XMP multi-player add on looks good.

*edit* My first double post... courtesy of SBC dsl. Damn connection drops too often. More often every time they "upgrade" their servers...

This comment was edited on Jan 7, 20:25.

I'm trying to play my way through Unreal 2 at the minute. Clearly I'm too old to actually play on Normal anymore but god help me I'm trying. My real problem is (a) the sudden vanishing act the game does every so often, leaving nothing but desktop behind, and (b) I get half way through a mission and don't understand why I care anymore.

You can't criticize someone for not caring above all else about a story in their FPS. Remove the F and the P and you have a Shooter. If you can summarize the plot to Space Invaders (a top 5 of all time, video game) in more than 1000 words then you're just making shit up. Same for Defender, same for Galaxians, same for anything you like. To this day 90% of people will prefer simple goals to intense story driven action, any day. Don't get me wrong, if you can encourage someone to achieve those goals through a story then you have a winner. Like Half Life.

its a taste issue... i dont go for the Serious Sam stuff anymore... I got enough of that with Duke 3d...

I guess that's always been the point with id software, Carmack
has mentioned that the FPS is primarily a genre of action, and well, shooting. He descibed it like basketball, the concept of basketball doesn't change, people don't keep making different kinds of basketball games.

I suppose that's why they don't expand on the FPS concept much at id, AND I'M FINE with that. Go play a top down strategy game space ace.

"i dont go for the Serious Sam stuff anymore"

c'mon...at least give me some credit. I don't want waves and waves of baddies in every location they can think of either.

<wasp>

serious sam played nothing like duke 3d. SS is a piece of crap and the only thing that it had going for it was the coop multiplayer.

------------
Love,
Mayor Danm{

its a taste issue... i dont go for the Serious Sam stuff anymore... I got enough of that with Duke 3d...

_____________________________________________
Give me slack. Or kill me.

I just don't want *every* FPS to have some long-winded story or every single developer hiring story-tellers to keep my interest in their title space captain. I love books and movies. The whole point of the FPS genre is that i'm not constantly reading or watching the video screen...just playing!

Cheers,
<wasp>

i was talking about stories, not fps's

so you are not a hater of all things prose, i take it?

I only play fps for multiplayer anyways... a single player fps experience is pretty damn boring - unless you expand the concept like Deus Ex 1, or Xenus, or STALKER

_____________________________________________
Give me slack. Or kill me.

...you forgot the key word when you quoted me. The word "most". Yeah right, like many ppl buy a FPS shooter to "stimulate their intellect" thru a good story-telling.

<wasp>

what a moron. You have a point wasp. Some stories are just tedious mission objectives to plow through.
Though some games do get it right, and that makes stories in games worth while. Look at Call of Duty, NOLF2 or Anachronox. Without a solid story those games would have been nowhere near as fun as they are now.

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» http://www.worldwar3.cjb.net « Updated January 4th 2004
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I've said it before and I'll say it again. id doesn't make games they make game engines and demo's of what can be done with it, other companies, like Raven, Ritual, and the Medal of Honor, Call of Duty people, make a real game out of it."

Oh. So i guess all the fun i had with Doom/Doom2 Quake(s) wasn't real. I musta been imagining it. Those other companies you listed have an advantage since they can spend most of their time implementing various features and tweaks. Besides, licensing an id engine doesn't always guarantee a fantastic playing experience.

<wasp>