Federal GTA Lawsuit

Suit seeks to ban sales of popular video game (thanks Mike Martinez): "A lawsuit by Haitian groups that asks for the top-selling video game 'Grand Theft Auto: Vice City' to be removed from store shelves will be decided in federal court. " Also, Give Back Take Two (thanks Hump and Steve Nutley) has complaints from The New York Post about GTA, apparently making the case for how depicting violence in a game is worse than molestation: "This is 10,000 times worse than the worst thing anybody thinks Michael Jackson ever did to a little boy."
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162 Replies. 9 pages. Viewing page 3.
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122.
 
Re: Moog Operator
Jan 6, 2004, 06:51
Re: Moog Operator Jan 6, 2004, 06:51
Jan 6, 2004, 06:51
 
Phaelog:

Yes. The best economy in two decades. Maybe your math skills aren't the greatest. As a business owner I can affirm this fact. Two new employees in the last three months and apprx 20% growth in the monthly. Even your wall would agree. If you think the unemplyment numbers are the conservatives fault, YOU are an idiot. Businesses leave because of high taxes, unions, environmental zealots, and out of control lawsuits. All of those are purely liberal institutions.

Libya and Iran are absolutely caving in. This is what happens when you show strength instead of the apathy of the left.

Sanctity of marriage? I guess. If you consider women to be dumb animals with nothing to contribute to society except children. Don't give me that "sanctity" crap. Those women are horribly oppresed. If denying basic human rights to half the population turns you on........ that's your problem.

We don't give a fuck about 400,000 deaths? Maybe your ignorant ass doesn't. I, on the other hand, think it is evil.

Phaelog, the wall has more salient points than you. Don't open your mouth, your brain will show.

This comment was edited on Jan 6, 06:51.
121.
 
Re: Moog Operator
Jan 6, 2004, 04:14
Re: Moog Operator Jan 6, 2004, 04:14
Jan 6, 2004, 04:14
 
"The best economy in two decades."

You're an idiot. Spending time refuting this is akin to arguing with a wall.

"Middle Eastern( Libya and soon Iran) contries giving up their WOMDs and moving towards democracy."

Libya hasn't givin up shit yet (assuming they have anything besides a bare bones program and a desire to develop nukes). Likewise with Iran. I guess we'll just ignore Israel, India, and Pakistan and the nukes they have because it'll make your little sound bite less sexy.

"Two countries (so far) freed from mass-murdering( Saddam killed 400,000 of his own people. Guess that doesn't bother some folks) dictators."

Oh right, like we really give one fuck about the Iraqi people. Were was this when Rwandan Tutsi's were being rounded up and executed. While airlifting our citizens out we didn't even bring Rwandans employed by Western governments in their embassies & consulates. Nice touch! For something more current check out a member of our "coalition of the willing", Uzbekistan. The guy in charge there makes Mr. Hussein look warm and fuzzy. Don't pretend we were in there to bring democracy to the people. The "reason" offered by the government was chemical and nuclear weapons we haven't found. That's a whole other discussion right there.

"Yup. The right sure screwed things up."

Yup. Just look at North Korea. I wonder if we'll even pretend to consider the current offer from NK. Nahhhh.

"mass-murder"

We covered this one.

"sexual oppression"

Haha. Three words. Sanctity of Marrage.

"a failed US economy"

I wouldn't blame the economy on either major party but the current administration has not helped....well at least not helped the lower or middle income families.

"religious oppression"

See the arguing with the wall analogy.

"wealth hording"

Again the wall provides more stimulating debate.

"unstable governments who support terrorism with WOMDs."

Pick a name from some countries up there. Almost anyone will do.

Feel free to direct any response to the affor mentioned wall. I'm sure the two of you will have a real meeting of the minds.

120.
 
Re: The True Crime.
Jan 5, 2004, 18:31
Re: The True Crime. Jan 5, 2004, 18:31
Jan 5, 2004, 18:31
 
First off how old are you! Are you still affraid of the dark? You want your mommy. Has anyone told you, you can't judge a book by its cover. So you were affraid of LA cus of a game! Also your comments about making a game accurate. If there wasn't anything made up it wouldn't be very entertaining, now would it. If you want a real true to life game go play yourself a flight simultor. I think your the type of person that sees a movie and thinks thats is the way things really are. Grow up will you. Thats way we have a rating system for fools like yourself who want their mommy all the time. Its a free contry and the have the freedom to express it. There not physcialy hurting anyone. If you dont like it dont buy its freedom of choice, isn't it. As far as the lawsuit goes you are a complete retard. Maybe I should sew you for being a braindead fool. People like you are why companies make games like that to lash out and piss you guys off. So go suck your moms tit you Anti AMERICAN HERITIC

119.
 
Re: The True Crime.
Jan 5, 2004, 16:33
Re: The True Crime. Jan 5, 2004, 16:33
Jan 5, 2004, 16:33
 
With respect, then by that logic we must ban all movies, television shows, and books that do not portray their subject matter realistically.

Is that really a road we want to start on? Do we really want to censure and destroy any and all creative expression?

I’ve said it before, and I’ll say it again. What ever happened to “I may not agree with what you have to say, but I’ll defend to the death your right to say it”?

118.
 
The True Crime.
Jan 5, 2004, 16:17
The True Crime. Jan 5, 2004, 16:17
Jan 5, 2004, 16:17
 
Ever since I played true crime: streets of L.A. - I've been afraid to go there. We had to do a stop over there one time and I was too scared to move out of my seat on the plane. And thats becasue I played a game that 'mis-represented' L.A. and its various neighbourhoods. Just like GTA labeled alot of races and cultures in its game. I think this lawsuit is the right thing to do. Someones gotta draw the line somewhere. If not, it'll just get worse to the point that even a videogame could lead to war. (Doubt that will ever happen, but you get the point).

117.
 
Re: My 2c
Jan 5, 2004, 14:16
Re: My 2c Jan 5, 2004, 14:16
Jan 5, 2004, 14:16
 
SgtBubba,

Bullseye! Stated perfectly. Nice job.

116.
 
Re: My 2c
Jan 5, 2004, 13:18
Re: My 2c Jan 5, 2004, 13:18
Jan 5, 2004, 13:18
 
While I understand this is your opinion, it is this opinion (shared among far too many people) that has led in large part to the decline of our legal system and society at large.

It is the sole responsibility of the parent to ensure that their child does not have access to inappropriate material, and no one else’s. Any idea to the contrary weakens parent’s rights, and encourages inadequate parenting.

We must hold individuals, and in the case of children their parents, responsible for their actions. To attempt to hold the creators of certain material responsible for the actions of those who may or may not have access to that material is foolish.

It is past time that we, not only as gamers but as citizens, stood up to our “representatives” and let them know that WE will be responsible, and we do not need them to parent either our children, or us.


115.
 
Re: Moog Operator
Jan 5, 2004, 07:01
Re: Moog Operator Jan 5, 2004, 07:01
Jan 5, 2004, 07:01
 
Nekura:

The unenployment rate is always a lagging indicator. And, unemployment is dropping like a stone. I agree the deficit needs to be taken care of and I think the Bush administration did conservatives a disservice with his Prescription Drug bill. This was pandering at it's worst. It is just another socialist program that WILL fail and cost us all billions. At least he is handling the war magnificently.

We sold weapons to Saddam to fight another enemy of ours: Iran. Are you implying that America is responsible for the deaths of those 400,000 people by supplying the weapons? That's just nuts. Following that logic, Ford is responsible for every death ever incurred involving their vehicles. I find it odd that a lot of liberals tend to think America is the villian in the currect situation.

Which civil liberties do you think I am trying to destroy?

114.
 
My take on VC
Jan 4, 2004, 17:35
My take on VC Jan 4, 2004, 17:35
Jan 4, 2004, 17:35
 
Well this subject has been done before. The lawsuit will get no where. I remember when Judas Priest was sued because someone commited suicide suposedly becuase of thier music. There have been several law suits of this nature over the years. None of them have won. This one won't either. I remember that part of the game. You are under the spell of a voodoo woman who tells you to kill as many hatians as you can with a sniper rifle. Who are coincidently already in a gang fight. You have to kill the hatians to make sure the other side wins the fight. Now this isn't pretty but how is it different from what happens in other media from time to time. I heard the argument that movies are better regulated. But come on. It's still about parental control. If the parents don't care. Thier kid proboly will see all kinds of R rated material. But on the other hand it is tough to keep your kid from going to the nieghbors house and watching Faces of Death and playing GTA vice city and topping it off with some Beavis and Butthead. On the one hand I want freedom of choice. On the other hand I can see how society seems to becomming worse and worse. The music, movies, games ect are having a slow effect on society. It's a catch 22. But if you want to ban GTAVC, we will have to ban other things some people might like. This discussion has been going on for years. I have no idea what the solution is. I was surprised though when talking to someone about playing GTAVC. I found myself saying things like. "I beat up a hooker and took her money" "Ya and I had to sell drugs from an ice cream truck while avoiding the police" "and there was this one mission where I had to create as much mayhem as possible in a couple of miniutes. The cops showed up and I had to kill them too. The mayhem meter really went up when I did that". But look at the news people watch every day. I think the news and what we think is funny are really telling. The news playes one bad story after the next. We love gossip, tragedy. I can't blame the news people. They only give us what get ratings. I think comedy shows like Jay Lenno say alot also. Every night he makes tastless jokes about Michael Jackson and whoever is in the news. He is not kind at all. I find alot of his jokes extremly tasteless and insensitive. But he gets the best ratings. So where do we want to go as a society? I can't answer the question.

113.
 
Re: My 2c
Jan 4, 2004, 16:26
Re: My 2c Jan 4, 2004, 16:26
Jan 4, 2004, 16:26
 
Yeah that was my point, and as far as GTA style cartoonish/amusing games are concerned, I agree with you that developers should be free to make games like that as they wish. I was talking about the (hypothetical) sort of games that would equate to "kiddie porn" that, to quote your example, would involve realistic portrayal of brutal rape etc. We can allow Stanley Kubrick to portray it in Clockwork Orange, because, by and large, the enforcement of the movies is better than that of games. Developers are responsible to regulate themselves if they delve into these sorts of subjects, because of the inadequacies in game ratings system. It's not their fault, but it's the way the industry is.

Avatar 18712
112.
 
Re: My 2c
Jan 4, 2004, 15:15
Re: My 2c Jan 4, 2004, 15:15
Jan 4, 2004, 15:15
 
Yes, but while I am firmly in the "if I dont like the content, don't buy it" camp, I am also of the opinion that given the extreme inadequacies as far as ensuring games don't get into the hands of minors, that responsibility must lie at source, with the developers.

Well, I'm with you in the "don't like it, don't buy it" camp, but I have to disagree with the responsibility of the developers argument. We don't seem to feel that movie producers are responsible to regulate themselves, why should we feel the same way about video games?

The bottom line is that the current rating system for games is inadequate, as it is not legally enforcable. Until we have a system that is as enforcable as the rating system of movies, we will have problems like this controversy over GTA.

PZ
------------
Reading: Welsh, Dalheimer, and Kaufman's "Running Linux"
Listening To: Sam Roberts "We Were Born In A Flame", Treble Charger "Detox", Sum 41 "Does this Look Infected"
PZ
------------
111.
 
GTA
Jan 4, 2004, 10:22
GTA Jan 4, 2004, 10:22
Jan 4, 2004, 10:22
 
If u think a games i too ''fun'' for ur stoopid kids, then try to get that games away from them. Cause u know st00pid ppl do stupid things they saw on tv, video games,cnn, anywhere....

Smart ppl see the differences betweenm reality or movies,video games..... if u doesnt stay in ur own world and quit whinning that u cannot make it with ur kids and now they are robbing u for ur little pay check

Who ever told you life was fair ?

Life is a gamble play it hard :p
110.
 
Re: My 2c
Jan 4, 2004, 07:37
Re: My 2c Jan 4, 2004, 07:37
Jan 4, 2004, 07:37
 
I don't know about you, but I'd feel pretty damn uneasy with a game like that on the shelves of Wal-Mart.
<humble opinion>
Yes, but while I am firmly in the "if I dont like the content, don't buy it" camp, I am also of the opinion that given the extreme inadequacies as far as ensuring games don't get into the hands of minors, that responsibility must lie at source, with the developers.
In an ideal world, where minors never played games not intended for them, I am of the opinion that there should be no boundries in "created" media - by that I mean the distinction between paintings, digital media, sculpture etc and real photographs and videos of real subjects, the obvious difference being in order to get kiddie porn or whatever, you have to force real people to do real stuff and then photograph it or whatever. Created media is just representation, and as such comes under free speech, though obviously needs age limits.
However, if a game ever were created with that sort of content, it is simply impossible to stop minors getting hold of it, except by not making it.
That being said, I don't think Vice City in its current form (Haitian comment included) falls into this category.

</humble opinion>


Avatar 18712
109.
 
Re: GTA
Jan 4, 2004, 04:08
Re: GTA Jan 4, 2004, 04:08
Jan 4, 2004, 04:08
 
Because it's easy to sell yourself if you manage to piss people off. It creates publicity (remember even bad publicity is still publicity), and makes you seem like the hot story of the moment. Or maybe I'm just trying to sound too samrt.
I am Y-Bot. Prepare to be eliminated and somesuch.
108.
 
GTA
Jan 4, 2004, 03:34
GTA Jan 4, 2004, 03:34
Jan 4, 2004, 03:34
 
GTA is good, why blame something thats just there for fun.


Who ever told you life was fair ?

Life is a gamble play it hard :p
107.
 
Re: Moog Operator
Jan 3, 2004, 21:10
Re: Moog Operator Jan 3, 2004, 21:10
Jan 3, 2004, 21:10
 
Parents should be responsible for their childrens' viewing and gaming habits. Period. Any parent who says "I can't watch my kid or control him all the time" is a failed parent.

Just out of curiosity, are you a parent?

PZ
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Reading: Welsh, Dalheimer, & Kaufman's "Running Linux"
Listening To: Sam Roberts - "We Were Born In A Flame", Treble Charger - "Detox", and Sum 41 "Does this Look In
PZ
------------
106.
 
Re: Moog Operator
Jan 3, 2004, 13:46
Re: Moog Operator Jan 3, 2004, 13:46
Jan 3, 2004, 13:46
 
Inkswitch:

First, I do agree with you on the parenting comment. Most parents would rather write letters to their Congressman to have a show removed from TV than walk over and turn off the set. The reason so many kids are running unchecked and don't respect authority is because they are raised by parents who want to be their friends instead of the authoritarian.

You lost me on the rest, however. Best economy? The unemployment rate and massive deficit just show that they are artifically boosting the economy at the expense of future generations. (The current overall unemployment rate is slightly deceptive because many people are taking crappy part-time jobs because they were laid off and can't find anything better. This means they make and spend less which lowers the ever-important consumer confidence).

Don't forget that Saddam killed many of those 400,000 with weapons provided by the U.S. which were originally intended for Iran (see http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/special/iraq/index.htm). Also - if we're so hot for WMDs, why are we letting China and North Korea (countries that have an actual beef with us) off the hook entirely?

I'm an Independent, but can't stand anyone who deliberately bends and/or breaks the truth in such a severe way and also seeks to destroy our civil liberties every chance they get.

(BTW - Cheney is probably going to be indited for bribery by a French court: http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20040112&s=ireland. That really puts lying about getting a blowjob into perspective, doesn't it?)

105.
 
Leftists.
Jan 3, 2004, 09:30
Leftists. Jan 3, 2004, 09:30
Jan 3, 2004, 09:30
 
Have you guys noticed that the meda is really PC? I mean why can't Bill O'Reilly say wetback on TV without the PC brigade getting all outraged? The man can't even yell at people whose parents died on 9/11 without offending some leftists. Hopeless liberals like Lou Dobbs whine about free trade, deregulation and illegal immigration when in reality these are very American activities. America can exploit whoever it wants, including its own people, because that's how a free market system works. If you don't like capitalism, then maybe you should move to France. And what's up with all this whining about Iraq? We traded 500 (and rising) American corpses for Saddam--not a bad deal if you think about it in a patriotic (rightwing) way. The liberals can't stop harping on the fact that the war was based on "lies" (more like misstatements of truth). Does it really matter that Saddam had nothing to do with 9/11 and had no real WMDs? And who cares if Bin Laden got away? Liberals need to get their priorities straight.

Edited to add more liberal hypocrisy.

This comment was edited on Jan 3, 09:38.
104.
 
Re: Moog Operator
Jan 3, 2004, 07:59
Re: Moog Operator Jan 3, 2004, 07:59
Jan 3, 2004, 07:59
 
The best economy in two decades.

Middle Eastern( Libya and soon Iran) contries giving up their WOMDs and moving towards democracy.

Two countries (so far) freed from mass-murdering( Saddam killed 400,000 of his own people. Guess that doesn't bother some folks) dictators.

Yup. The right sure screwed things up.


Basically, if you are an American liberal, you condone and support, mass-murder, sexual oppression, a failed US economy, religious oppression, wealth hording, and unstable governments who support terrorism with WOMDs.

Yeah. I'll vote for that. :/


Back to the subject.......

Parents should be responsible for their childrens' viewing and gaming habits. Period. Any parent who says "I can't watch my kid or control him all the time" is a failed parent.

103.
 
Re: Moog Operator
Jan 3, 2004, 04:37
Re: Moog Operator Jan 3, 2004, 04:37
Jan 3, 2004, 04:37
 
File that under Bullshit

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