Balance in all things, theres more truth to that statement then most realize.

I am only qualified to comment one one peron's experiences, and thats my own.

I saw Natural Born Killers when I was around 12 years old. That film was more brutal than almost any video game out there. Also, around the same time, I saw Lepa Sela Lepo Gore, which is a Yugoslavian film about the civil war during the early 90's. Its was pretty brutal but even more than that it was just "disturbing". I couldn't sleep for 2 days after that, but I got over it. For just about my whole life, thankfully, my parents have allowed me to be exposed to all the bad stuff in the world so that I could learn from it. They trusted me enough to not censor me from pron and killing and politics and stuff. And I think that was certainly a factor in my upbringing, which is to say that it was a positive factor. Becuase of that, I am now a complete person, who can judge right and wrong for himself. In the real world, I can make the tough choices, because I was allowed to choose even from an early age. You're not going to get kids to "Say No to Drugs" by making them watch a bunch of fancy commercials. That decision, that inner strength can only come from your parents (or whoever you grew up around). Which brings me sort of to the conclusion about all this:

The point is not to limit children's exposure to bad influences. The point, the way to raise a good human being, is to expose them to good ones.Kids look up to their parents for an example, and if that example is good, than you will show them how to live their life, what to strive for. The best thing a parent can give their child is an example. And if you do that, no amount of "negative influence" can erode that.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 18:43.

Also I have told you the rating system does not work in the uk, parents just buy the games. So if the guy had bothered to investigate his proposed law he would know it would be a waste of time and money because it does not work out. Then again he will only be doing the law to get attention and raise his profile, so hooray.

Good old gaming! The best of all scapegoats!

Can I also throw into the pot another point of view, which could be that games help release violence, without games you would not be able too. I feel people may forget we are a fighting race, we need to be to survive. I think in general games help certain people to carry out violence that they might otherwise do in real life. I'm sure that has happened someplace, not with kids though, with adults.

Perhaps if Hitler had played doom, there would of been no world war 2

I may not of been clear in my other reply. The bottom line is I don't think kids should play games rated 18, who does really? but I can't see that being a big factor in societies problems of today, much worse are heroes murdering people in films, people to look up too. Far worse. Like I said we have the rated games in the uk and parents just buy the games so it will make no difference whatsoever

So you don't think that tackling the problem of bad parenting is more important than the problem of buying violent videogames ? I personally think that educating and somehow (I don't know how, it's not an easy answer) making parents in North America better and more accountable for how they raise their children is more important.

And where does it end ? If a child kills because his warped mind couldn't comprehend what he read in the bible do we get the government to ban that too ? What about drugs ? If record numbers of kids start doing cocaine at 12 years old then who do we blame ? Well, we didn't blame the parents when the kids turned into killers so why blame the parents when they turn into drug addicts ?

The situation is somewhat like the war on drugs. The American government spends billions of dollars on stopping the traffic of drugs into the country (which is basically impossible) instead of focusing on what makes people over here want to do drugs in the first place. It is far easier for the government to deal with the supply rather than asking why there is a demand.

It is so about taking kids out of the world. Maybe I was just a mature kid, but I've been killing virtual people since before I was 10, and I was well aware of the fact that it would be a bad thing to do it in real life. I've never been in a fight, much less a shoot-out.

Let the kids play the games and make sure they know it's not like real life, because they're going to be playing them anyway, even if it's not in your house. They'll play them at the arcade, they'll play them at a friend's house, and maybe then they won't be equipped to deal with it.

It's the parent's responsibility to teach the kid right from wrong and prepare them to deal with the real world, not necessarily to be super-invasive to the point of creating an overly-shelterd child. It's, like, all about balance an' shit, yo.
This comment was edited on Nov 30, 18:28.

It's up to parents

My point exactly.

Yes, it's a bit of a generalisation, but sadly the law often has to cater to the lowest common denominator. You can't say "OK, kids aren't allowed to play violent games unless you're a responsible parent" because everyone thinks they're a responsible parent regardless.

I hate it as much as you do, but the government has to do something about it because a lot of parents are doing such a lousy job.

Well that's a sweeping generalization Von Helmet. I am a young guy and I have been playing very violent video games, watching violent movies, watching violent TV and playing violent games since I was a child.

I'm also a completely normal, functioning person. It's up to parents, not the government to tell kids what they can and can't play with. If any parent can't recognize mental problems in their own child, then they aren't fit to be a parent.

We don't have seperate sections for violent movies at the video store, violent books at the library or a "violent music" section at the music store. It's up to parents to talk to their kids and find out if violence is effecting their minds.

kids are not stupid, they know games are games.

That's not really true. Why do little kids do things like talk to the TV then?

Kids are taught right from wrong from their parents,

Are they? Not so much as they should be. Parents are doing a worse job raising their children by the minute.

but we all have it in our minds we are not born stupid, if a kid cannot tell that it is wrong to murder someone and cannot tell the difference between real life and games then they already have problems.

Yeah, problems that for a large part stem from bad parenting. How does a kid know that it's wrong to kill if they are never taught it? When you're young violence is a very viable option when it comes to getting your way, and if you never learn otherwise...

Hey, anyone think I've got an axe to grind here?

Years ago, my gamer friends would all talk about how annoyed they were that politicians were trying to take violence out of games. I didn't understand it, especially since i was 10 times the gamer they were, and often played the most violent of FPS games. And yet I didn't see the problem behind removing violence. Maybe lots of people are playing games to kill the crap outta people, to see gore, and they love that sense, but I dunno, I don't take it so literally maybe. Dont' get me wrong, I loved Kill Bill's exagerrated blood spouts, just like i love how some anime has crazy ways of having organs fly around. But still....... I don't really care if below 18 year old kids are forced to stay away from that kinda stuff. Doesn't seem like a big deal..... and considering how weird and out-of-touch-with-reality some hormonally-active boys can be, I think it's a pretty reasonable measure.

and I never understood why we're so obsessed with buying/selling things related to the mass carnage of warfare, exploiting war for entertainment purposes. It just seems odd. I'm under the impression, after reading many WW2 and Vietnam books by soldiers, that very few of them would ever even consider making money off of such a topic. And yet people who are not part of war, relish the opportunity to dump their collective millions of dollars into the topic for entertainment. Yeesh.
Personally, I'd still play my fav game, Day of Defeat, if it was teddy bears shooting bananas at each other. I'm there for the gameplay.

As for the Army being able to recruit 18 yr olds to go to war, and REALLY kill people, while banning 17 yr olds from even playing these games..... well the reasoning behind that is the military knows 18 yr olds are gullible, and that they can suck you in to fight in wars that you barely understand. 18 yr olds aren't exactly known for their high political and historical awareness. I'd argue that the military should raise the minimum age limit for recruitment to 25, because most 18 yr olds are friggin idiots and don't things through enough, and most 18 yr olds who do join the military are desperately poor.... which just makes them more likely to be friggin idiots. (I have lots of respect for the military as an establishment, BUT it would be a lie to say that all my friends who joined the military after high school were well-learned people.)

so yeah, it makes perfect sense here. US society says "you kids are too stupid to control your own smoking or drinking habits, and you're too stupid to play these super violent video games without regulation. BUT we *know* this, which is why we want you to join the military and kill stuff without asking questions."

kids are not stupid, they know games are games. Kids are taught right from wrong from their parents, but we all have it in our minds we are not born stupid, if a kid cannot tell that it is wrong to murder someone and cannot tell the difference between real life and games then they already have problems.

However, I don't really understand the point in this bill because here in the uk games have ratings and you cannot buy them, so parents just buy the kids them so it is a complete joke. Perhaps you do not have the law in the USA, let me tell you most parents will buy the games for their kids whatever the rating because kids will moan and beg.

Can we not here the end of this never ending pointless argument about why society is cruel and people do evil things? we are human and it will always be around our lifes no matter what we do, the day it doesn't is the day we will of seriously evolved into what I would consider a non human life form.

I

Step 1: Obtain Child.
Step 2: Purchase sensory deprivation chamber.
Step 3: Feed child sugar-free flavorless vitamin-paste.

Step 3a: Marvel at the fact that the kid survives with no fibre without his guts rotting out and digesting themselves

Step 4: Continue until 18.
Step 5: Release perfectly happy child out into the violent, obscene world.

The point isn't taking kids out of the world, it's teaching them the right attitude about it, and I'm sorry - but games don't give a valid world view. At young ages kids don't really know what's right or wrong, and if you let them play violent games or watch violent films they will get a warped view and it will be harder for them to know right from wrong.

man, not another one of these silly guys going on about violence, you see more real violence in road rage walking to school. You see violence as a kid in films as well, I could swear people only say these comments to get a name for themselves because anyone with a brain knows fps games do bugger all.

Step 1: Obtain Child.
Step 2: Purchase sensory deprivation chamber.
Step 3: Feed child sugar-free flavorless vitamin-paste.
Step 4: Continue until 18.
Step 5: Release perfectly happy child out into the violent, obscene world.

Over protective parenting does accomplish anything, other than the kids being pissed at you for not allowing them to do something that is so obviously harmless. Its because of people like this that every time I switch on TBS (Superstation), every swear word is replaced with "snap" and "dang". If you seriously think that swearing, or porn, or pretend violence warps kids minds, then you really shouldn't be in a position to make any sorts of decisions regarding whats kids should and should not be allowed to do.

OK, so it's not kids listening to bad language or seeing violent stuff in films or games and stuff. I'm glad we've established that.

Well that, and and the fact that kids grow up listening to "I'm 'a cap yo' ass nigga, then off to 'ma crib to smoke to chronic and mack them hoes."

What, like in the films you mean? Make your mind up.

I can't wait until my son is old enough to use the mouse and keyboard. I am going to buy him every violent FPS game he wants, so I can train him how to stalk, maim, torture, and kill. He will be the Tiger Woods of Death!

the best part about life is knowing you put it together

Parents have to enforce the rules! Not retailers, not cops, PARENTS. If you have a kid and you tell him/her he can't play that game, GUESS WHAT, you'll have to watch him like a hawk, check his computer/xbox multiple times per day, sneak around his/her room while at school, eaves drop on him with his friends, meet his friends parents, find out if his friends have the game, monitor what he spends his money on, and that is just for starters! KIDS ARE SNEAKY LITTLE BASTARDS. I was!

Are you being sarcastic? I really can't tell. If you are, just ignore the following comments:

What is wrong with you? You wan't parents to spy on their kids, check around with other overly concerned parents to see if the kids are sevretly playing the games at each other's house? C'mon man. Its bad enough that every soccer mom out there doesn't let her kids swear, and freaks out every time someone is shot in a movie, we don't need them meddeling around in video games. Yes, almost every video games inolved killing people. So do most movies. Over protective parenting does accomplish anything, other than the kids being pissed at you for not allowing them to do something that is so obviously harmless. Its because of people like this that every time I switch on TBS (Superstation), every swear word is replaced with "snap" and "dang". If you seriously think that swearing, or porn, or pretend violence warps kids minds, then you really shouldn't be in a position to make any sorts of decisions regarding whats kids should and should not be allowed to do. Video games are not the reason that 15 year olds are running around in gangs, shooting each other. You know who is responsible for that? Parents not taking a interest in their kids lives. Plain and simple. Well that, and and the fact that kids grow up listening to "I'm 'a cap yo' ass nigga, then off to 'ma crib to smoke to chronic and mack them hoes."

Politicans and the soccer moms who encourage them ought to have some common sense, so that stuff like this doesn't actually get realized.

This comment was edited on Nov 30, 17:55.

One question oh enlightend right-winger Leland Yee:

Yee's a liberal democrat, get your facts straight before spouting bullshit.

Ahhh it must be another election year!!

Nope that was last year.

I have no problem banning the sale of adult rated products to minors. I do have a problem with this ban only affecting video games. I'm also disconcerted by the second half of the legislation.

But getting parents to approve the games isn't even any better, since the media has put such a scare on the parents that the only thing they're going to buy for their kids is Barbie's Play Magic Funhouse or something like that. I

don't think that some of the games currently rated "M" are so violent as to warp kid's fragile little minds. The only stuff that I can currently think of that should not be sold to minors is Manhunt, since from what I hear thats really twisted. Games like Max Payne 2 or Vice City, just let them buy it. I mean, if the kid is over 14 or something, and doesn't have a crazy look in his eye, just let the kids play. Don't they realize the huge hypocrisy in trying to limit violent video games while promoting violence (as long as its labeled "peacekeeping") in almost every form of media.

Its great that I'm in Canada, where politicians still have some sort of rational thought left, and where these people can't infiringe upon my rights to buy video games.

That depends on the parents. My parents were flat out against me playing Mortal Kombat when it first came out (I was like 10 at the time, maybe a bit older, how long ago did it come out?), but they relaxed after a few years and are now accustomed to the fact that I'm perfectly OK playing violent games. But it is totally up to the parent, and they have to take an interest in what their child is going, which means more than just buying the kid anything they ask for.