Out of the Blue

Today's a day many of us have been anticipating for some time, as The Matrix Revolutions will be opening in U.S. theaters. I know that there are also those who are over this, and could care less, but that's okay, it keeps the agents from chasing you. In any event, this is likely to inspire comments on the forums here as folks like myself return from seeing the movie, but please, as always, keep spoiler-type comments camouflaged by a secret text tag.

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88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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88.
 
Re: No subject
Nov 16, 2003, 01:38
88.
Re: No subject Nov 16, 2003, 01:38
Nov 16, 2003, 01:38
 
A humerous but unforutnate true review of this movie, and other wonderful articles, can be found here http://maddox.xmission.com/

Perhaps it might be an idea to note that that site contains some pretty major spoilers of the movie.

PZ
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Currently Reading: Janice Gross Stein's "Cult of Efficiency" -- Last Read: Neil Postman's "Technopoly
PZ
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87.
 
No subject
Nov 12, 2003, 04:18
87.
No subject Nov 12, 2003, 04:18
Nov 12, 2003, 04:18
 
I've read some speculation (I guess it's all speculation when it comes to the Matrix series...sigh) about some things in Revolutions and thought I'd add my 2 cents...Secret text...activate!
At the end of the 'Super Brawl' between Neo and Smith, Smith starts acting very 'funny', very confused. He says 'everything that has a beginning has an end, Neo'...now some say that was the Oracle playing with Smith's mind, making him see visions of him 'winning' the fight between him and Neo. When Neo heard this, he realized Smith was saying what the Oracle said to him earlier, knowing the machines are directly linked and can destroy him. That’s why Neo got up, and understood what he finally had to do, he had to 'loose'. So he sacrificed himself to Smith.

The reason the Oracle was lying there afterwards was that everyone Smith assimilated was given back their bodies. That is why Seraph was alive at the end, as well as Sati. (This goes along the lines as to why Smith said "Cookies need love, like everybody does" or something to that effect. He wasn't there to hear that, but he assimilated Sati, so he knew what she knew. )

Smith died because the machines deleted him via Neo. This is illustrated when it cuts to Neo being suspended by the machine, and it sends a jolt of electricity, or something through him that makes his whole body move. The next scene shows Smith being destroyed, so I think it’s safe to say the machines destroyed Smith, not Neo.

I believe Neo is alive because the Oracle and Seraph, etc, are alive after Smith assimilated them. Neo being dead would go against one of the underlying themes of this story, in which Neo is comparable to Christ.


A humerous but unforutnate true review of this movie, and other wonderful articles, can be found here http://maddox.xmission.com/


86.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 11, 2003, 23:24
Bronco
 
86.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 11, 2003, 23:24
Nov 11, 2003, 23:24
 Bronco
 
These guys seemed to borrow from so many different stories to create theirs.

secret text:

Am I the only person to think of Paul Atriedes getting his eyes burned out by a stone cutter?

Am I the only person to think of King Arthur floating away at the end of Excalibur, ready to return and save England when he is needed?

All in all the movie was ok. I for one am glad it did not wrap everything up in one nice package, red bow and all.

What is the name of the layer of code that translates between machine language and a user comprehensible GUI? Why did I think of this while watching the beginning of the movie?

I'll have to see it again but:

Morpheous should lay off the BigMacs.

Trinity and her death - meh.

The little girl and her rainbow - the promise not to destroy the world again ala Noah?


I'm going to post some more thoughts tomorrow after I sleep on this.

-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.org

Retro colors for the unwashed heathens!
-TPFKAS2S
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85.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 11, 2003, 23:17
85.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 11, 2003, 23:17
Nov 11, 2003, 23:17
 
I don't think Sari is the next One... she's a program... Neo was at least part human. If there needed to be a new Oracle, I'd more see the argument that she would become it.

I do think Neo died at the end. References to seeing him again were to confirm the cycle would resume (so they would also be seeing Agent Smith again).
Stephen "Blue" Heaslip
Blue's News Publisher, Editor-in-Chief, El Presidente for Life
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84.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 11, 2003, 13:08
84.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 11, 2003, 13:08
Nov 11, 2003, 13:08
 
s{i assumed that they brought him and plugged him back into the matrix as someone else, like they promised to do to cypher in the first one. Also, i got the idea that Sari was the next one.

83.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 10, 2003, 04:12
83.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 10, 2003, 04:12
Nov 10, 2003, 04:12
 
I'm not sure. My friend who I saw it with figured that after he merged with Smith, he wouldn't be able to go back into the Matrix again, because his brain would have been overwritten with Smith code when Smith assimilated him. So if that were true then Neo could only be re-created, as it were, if the machines backed up his mind first. Hmm.

The Oracle said they'd see him again, so maybe he's still alive.


82.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 9, 2003, 22:03
nin
82.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 9, 2003, 22:03
Nov 9, 2003, 22:03
nin
 
Quick question for everyone who saw Rev this weekend...

<Spoiler>
I assumed that after Neo battled the Smiths and merged, he died. My friend saw it and assumed the opposite - the machines carried Neo back to Zion and he lived, thus making sure the machines kept their part of the deal.

So is it the general opinion that Neo died, or did I just assume it?

</Spoiler>

Thanks!




http://www.coldplay.com/
This comment was edited on Nov 9, 22:04.
81.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 9, 2003, 05:20
81.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 9, 2003, 05:20
Nov 9, 2003, 05:20
 
I agree. It could have been great. The third movie felt like someone other than the Wachowskis had written it. Here is my version of the film:
Same movie up until Trinity saves Neo from the Trainman. Then cut back to the club, and Smith enters. Merv looks him over and says something coy. Smith tries to copy himself to Merv and the Twins and Persephone, but can't because like Neo, Merv knows how to prevent copying. So Smith and Merv strike a deal to rule the matrix. Blah blah blah, the war continues as it did in the movie (with a little shorter battle, (less is more). Neo goes to the city and is blinded by Bane. Neo is ALL powerful against the machines, so there is no crash, no lame Trinity death, and so both Neo and Trinity go to the city. A deal is struck with the machines, who are afraid of Neo since they can't kill him. Neo is concerned about the people in the matrix, and what Smith is doing. He goes into the Matrix to fight smith, but has to deal with Merv and the guys. Neo ends up copying HIMself to fight everyone. Seeing this, Merv tries to betray Smith, but Persephone intervenes and ends up destroying herself and Merv, saying something like "its only a game..." So SUPER BURLY BRAWL comes in, with Neos fighting Smiths All DRAGONBALL Z style. Its a standoff, so Neo ends up sacrificing himself for the good of the people in the Matrix, and this allows Smith to be destroyed. Afterwords, Trinity gets some answers from the big daddy machine about what is going on and why Neo can see the gold light and how agent smith gets destroyed. The machines don't kill her because of the deal, and............The last line of the movie is something like "Trinity carries Neo inside her. Neo will live again." So! Trinity is pregnant, thus preserving Neo, and ensuring that the machines will not rise up against humanity. But what is to stop humanity from going against the machines? Well, nothing. But nothing would have stopped humanity from trying after Revolutions, anyway.

Yes, there are holes in this, but I think it is a lot more satisfying. Questions are answered that NEEDED answering, while leaving others unanswered, which is okay.

80.
 
Re: Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 20:37
WarPig
 
80.
Re: Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 20:37
Nov 6, 2003, 20:37
 WarPig
 
Yup. Odd, cause I really enjoyed it, and I'm very picky.

I'm with you, overall I thought it was funny with a few gags that had me rolling. Yeah it was dumb, and yeah most of the stuff would never really happen, but that's the whole point.

-----------------------------------------
Do not make fun of Bronco using secret text!
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79.
 
Re: Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 11:08
79.
Re: Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 11:08
Nov 6, 2003, 11:08
 
Is that a line from Old School by any chance? Good grief, that film was poor.

Yup. Odd, cause I really enjoyed it, and I'm very picky. More, in secret text: The scene where you find out the girl is in high school, the fat kid falling off the ledge with the cement block tied to him, the "let's go streaking everybody" scene, getting shot in the neck with the tranquilizer dart, some funny stuff, imo.
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"Oh that's blue. He's an old navy vet that hangs around my store a lot. But don't worry about it, he's legit."
78.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 10:38
78.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 10:38
Nov 6, 2003, 10:38
 
islander, I see what you are saying and agree with you that there was still a part of Neo left after Smith assimilated him, but about Neo doing it all and not the computers, how do you explain the energy, light ,whatever, coursing into Neos body from the source after Smith took him over? I interpreted it as the source injecting Neo with a Norton antivirus so to speak, and the part of Neo left inside Smith having the skill to use it.

77.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 10:32
77.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 10:32
Nov 6, 2003, 10:32
 
Agent smith as a human being wasn't a machine and he was still able to see him, not just the human, but the actual visage of Smith. And EM or no EM, you can't stick out your hand and make thousands of giant machines blow up. It just pushes the envelope off the table for me. I enjoyed the movie, but with about 20-30 minutes to go I felt sick and kept thinking, don't end this way, don't end this way, don't end this way.

___________________________________________
My Blog = http://the.postingstation.com
76.
 
Re: ACK, Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 10:08
76.
Re: ACK, Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 10:08
Nov 6, 2003, 10:08
 
There's no reason Neo shouldn't be able to see the machines like that. The eyes only detect the EM radiation we call light and our brain interprets it. If his brain can pick up some form of EM radiation (IR, UV, radio, micro... etc) and interpret it in some way then he could see that way e.g. bees can see UV, and some night vision goggles use IR, so those forms of EM can be used to "see", so all it relies on is for his brain to figure a way to interpret the radiation it picks up. The brain does weird things i.e. some people can hear through their skin in a way - Beethoven was deaf but could still compose because he felt the music, so maybe Neo's brain can somehow pick up radio waves or something.

I don't know, I'm speculating. Also, there's no reason a sci fi movie has to stick close enough to reality, it just needs suspension of disbelief.


75.
 
ACK, Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 10:01
75.
ACK, Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 10:01
Nov 6, 2003, 10:01
 
The movie sucked. Reloaded setup the premise for what could have been an amazing conclusion to the trilogy but this movie got lost in the possibilities and instead of taking a chance at a resolution, it decided to hide behind ambiguous metaphors, regarding the stuff talked about in other peoples secret text...
I don't think the machines -used- Neo to kill Smith, I think Neo killed smith personally. After Smith took control of Neo, he Neo was still somewhat in control of himself and managed to self-destruct, thereby causing all of the other smith programs to do the same. This would complete the Christian teachings of the savior choosing to die because he loved both the humans and the machines. While he was in 'limbo' he talked to the 2 programs that loved each other and I believe that he realized that the machines needed humans and the humans needed the machines in order to survive. Therefore he sacrificed himself to create peace and save both 'races'. The machines respected this and neo was exalted on what looked like some type of ceremonial funeral alter at the end.

WHAT MAKES THE MOVIE SUCK, as far as sci-fi goes, is that good science fiction can only stray too far from reality before you lose touch and the ability to identify with it. At the end of RELOADED I thought that neo, morpheus, and zion were still in the matrix, some type of back-up system because it is IMPOSSIBLE for neo to stop the machines outside the matrix, and it's IMPOSSIBLE for a computer program from the matrix to inherit a human body. I was hoping that in Revolutions, neo would find a way to escape from the matrix (both the real and backup system) and at that point find a way to free all the humans and reclaim the earth. However, like another poster stated, the fact that Neo was able to 'see' the gold lights that illuminated the machines in the REAL world, it goes beyond the realm of possibility in a well-constructed sci-fi tale.

Revolutions could have been a mesmerizing, inspiring epic that continued Neo's journey down the rabbit-hole, but instead the brothers Wachowski decided to preach ambiguous philosophy. In my opinion, they ruined the theme of the matrix, which I found dis-heartening in the extreme.

At least Neo got to wear a blindfold halfway through this movie... I wish I had brought one.

Off Topic: I read another post that likened this movie to Kill Bill and he liked both. I personally thought Kill Bill was terrible, so maybe there is a pattern here.


___________________________________________
My Blog = http://the.postingstation.com
74.
 
Re: Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 09:54
74.
Re: Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 09:54
Nov 6, 2003, 09:54
 
Re: Smith for Valcor

Yes, Smith and Neo will resurface in different ways. The architect said there had been 6 iterations of the Matrix so far, and each time the anomaly occurred, but the idea was that each time the equations balance better so the Matrix works better. So... Neo and Smith will occur as imbalances in some way, and the process will repeat itself, in the same way that the slice we see with Neo is just a repeat of what had already happened six times before.

73.
 
RE:Matrix
Nov 6, 2003, 09:46
Enahs
 
73.
RE:Matrix Nov 6, 2003, 09:46
Nov 6, 2003, 09:46
 Enahs
 
More on Matrix!
s{I have not seen it yet, it will be awhile before I get a chance to. I just felt left out, not being able to talk about it in secert text! Whats up?

_____
Enahs s{
I am free of all prejudice. I hate everyone equally.
- W. C. Fields
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72.
 
Re: Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 09:40
72.
Re: Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 09:40
Nov 6, 2003, 09:40
 
more discussion:

I was really deflated by the truce ending too. Why would the computers ever keep such a promise? They had Neo, and Smith was destroyed. Why not just reset like they had done before and continue their dominance? They could have easily redeployed the sentinels and wiped out Zion. Yes, the kid announcing the war over was way lame and the buildup for him doing something heroic was disgustingly obvious, I have no idea how Sati painted the sky, Trin's death was trite and when are movies going to stop using "You did it!....no, we did it." So cliche. (sorry for the run-on)
What made Matrix 1 great was Neo's ability to manipulate the matrix...The helicopter scene, the bullet dodging, the one arm behind the back defeat of Smith. I understand the progression of the story, but I still feel something was lost without "real world" battles going on with normal plugged in humans witnessing and participating. From the end of the phone booth call in Matrix 1, I was expecting the plugged in people to witness a revolution as well as Zion.
One more thing, wouldn't Smith be reborn when they reset the matrix because he was necesary to balance the equation for it to work?
Wrap up: Defending of Zion - A
Neo's battle with Smith - B+
Neo's role in the resolution of the Matrix - C
Wrap up of Trilogy - B


71.
 
Re: Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 09:32
71.
Re: Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 09:32
Nov 6, 2003, 09:32
 
Here we go again...

The Oracle said something about The One being in and of everything. So Neo is somehow connected to the machines regardless of whether he's jacked in or not (OK, go right ahead and ask why the big sentinel baby face machine jacked him in to kill Smith, I don't know) so Neo is connected into them all so he can EMP them at will or whatever. He can see the machines, by their light or whatever. It's like he can see the EM fields or something, which is all what we call light is anyway. It's like he can somehow sense things in a way that goes beyond regular sight and feeling.

As for destroying Smith... Maybe they needed to go via Neo to do that. He is stronger and more powerful than anyone in the Matrix, so the machines could somehow use his strength to kill Smith. It was a combination of the machine's and Neo's abilities. They worked together to kill their common enemy. Neither could do it alone, but somehow together they could.


This comment was edited on Nov 6, 09:34.
70.
 
Re: Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 09:27
70.
Re: Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 09:27
Nov 6, 2003, 09:27
 
"Oh that's blue. He's an old navy vet that hangs around my store a lot. But don't worry about it, he's legit."

Is that a line from Old School by any chance? Good grief, that film was poor.

69.
 
Re: Revolutions
Nov 6, 2003, 09:26
69.
Re: Revolutions Nov 6, 2003, 09:26
Nov 6, 2003, 09:26
 
But I'm really fucking mad about people who state that the story is "completely ridiculous". If you'd actually use your 2 brain cells you'd find out that almost every single line (especially in reloaded) does make sense in the greater context and with a bit of abstract thinking you get an excellent and satisfying "big picture" of it.

Allright fucknuts, I have a few more than two brain cells, I definately used them, I understood and basically drew the same conclusions as everyone else but I still found the ending "completely ridiculous". None of the questions that came up in Reloaded are answered.

Yes I understand that Smith is the opposite side of the Neo equation and that as Neo grows in power so does Smith but that still does nothing to explain what Smith's goals were. Someone said that the machines were able to destroy Smith because Neo was connected to the Matrix through the machines and once Neo was assimilated they had a direct link. If that's the case, why weren't they able to destroy Smith with any of the other thousands of assimilated Smiths? Given that there were far more Smith clones then there were rogue programs, Smith had to have assimilated thousands of people plugged into the Matrix through the machines. Also was it ever explained why Neo was able to destroy machines with his thoughts and why he s{could still see after having his eyes burned off]S? Or am I just to stupid to explore the "depth" of these films?

Even despite the lack of answers Revolutions would still be the weakest of the three films. Near-Star Wars quality dialogue and acting has been characteristic of the entire series but at least the first two had some amazing action set pieces. In Revolutions we have a 25 minute cartoon, a very disappointing gunfight and an equally disappointing climactic battle.

All in all a disappointing movie.

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