Haven't seen so many red *REMOVED* posts since Frederickson was last here...

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This comment was deleted on Oct 28, 10:26.

This comment was edited on Oct 28, 16:42.

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This comment was deleted on Oct 28, 10:26.

Dyamn, i played through that game so many times with different characters and different playstyles. If anything, the game was too long lol! ok, i'll rephrase that... after i'd put the effort in to complete it a few times, it then became too long to keep completing it. The number of different barks, conversations, and subtleties i discovered were, at the time, mindblowing! there was also a sense of satisfaction from playing the game in a way which maximized the xp, by moving back and forth, covering every base possible. there was so much to learn it was great, soaked it up like a sponge. granted, i finally got to the point where it was no longer stimulating to play, but it took MONTHS... if DX:IW can beat this experience, i'll buy it like a happy puppy.
The only big disappointment i had in DX (i could tolerate the dodgy AI) was when i heaved one of the big crates onto the roof (not easy), and then with immaculate timing managed to push it off onto a soldier's head below. The resulting effect was less than impressive, and i sincerely hope that the new physics blah makes sure such efforts are suitably rewarded.

www.orosian.org - What Am I?

He said the same thing about DX1, although impressive, is still much less than what was originally claimed.

Really? I don't remember Warren Spector saying DX1's story was open ended. In fact, I remember an old inteview with him in which he specifically stated that DX1's story was linear. Be sure you're not confusing the publisher's claims with the developer's, because they are often very different. It's the gameplay that is open ended, not the story. But in the sequel, even the story has non-linear plot branches, which is gonna be a really big evolutionary step for FPS/RPG gaming, in my opinion.

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This comment was deleted on Oct 28, 10:26.

"we'll hopefully just have them concentrated for Doom, Half Life and Unreal"

Nah. That will just create a glut of mods nobody pays attention to. See Half-Life.

Its not the lenght of the game that counts, its the depth.

Is it a safe bet to assume you subscribe to the 'It's not the size of the ship but the motion of the ocean that counts?'

So sorry. Could not stop myself from typing this.



-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.org

Retro colors for the unwashed heathens!

My whole point is that a game that is only single player should have a lot of stuff for you to do

I honestly cannot think of any single player title that offered more to do than Deus Ex... If you stick to taking one path per time you play a level, you'll have to replay some levels four times just to see all there is to see.

But, ofcourse, to each his own. To me, Deus Ex still stands as the most glorious achievement ever attained in gaming.

As for DX already being Gold, God, I can only hope.
Then again, November and December are going to be awesome months for entertainment. Matrix Revolutions, Railroad Tycoon 3, Knights of the Old Republic, Deus Ex : Invisible War and Return of the King.
Throw a little The Last Samurai in there (and no, I can't stand Tom Cruise, but I'm a sucker for Samurai movies), and I wonder how I'll find time to play it all and see it all.

Creston

Edit : He said the same thing about DX1, although impressive, is still much less than what was originally claimed.

I'll grant that, however, you have to take into account that Deus Ex really was the first game to ever try something like that on such a scale. I think we can forgive Warren & Co for not exactly attaining all their (very lofty) goals.
However, I think the second time around, when they actually KNOW what kind of game they're making, we'll all be VERY pleasantly surprised.

This comment was edited on Oct 27, 20:14.

and right now we're already switching the company's focus to shipping thief 3

Which suggests that DX2 is on the way to gold as we speak,...

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I need a new tag line, this ones old.

If DX2 is as open ended as Warren Spector keeps saying, then it will have plenty of replayability. But, I have my doubts. He said the same thing about DX1, although impressive, is still much less than what was originally claimed.

Well - I might be a little skewed in my opinions as I primarily play RPGs and TBS... so perhaps I am expecting the length of DX to be more like an RPG instead of an FPS...

It seemed about the same length as Undying, and that is too short for an RPG in my book

BTW, I dont like Max Payne... never did - 3rd person action games dont do it for me - and I hated Tombraider too... the only one I liked was Heavy Metal FAKK - and I heard someone beat that in like 8 hours... so screw it

My whole point is that a game that is only single player should have a lot of stuff for you to do - and I generally dont replay stuff unless the complexity is REALLY there... like Fallout 2 or something

_____________________________________________
Supporter of the "shut the fuck up" fan club.

I can't agree with anyone that says Deus Ex was too short, since it's longer than 99% of the games out there that I breeze through in a two or so days (Halo and Jedi Academy recently). It was longer (imo) than either of those, and never dull or repetitive.

I was happy with it playing it through once, and I ended up playing it through a number of times.

If Deus Ex was too short, you'd probably only ever play... Baldur's Gate II or something. (Seem to have memories of that keeping me occupied for a while)

Deus Ex took me a little bit over 30 hours to get through the first time around, which was a fucking Godsend in a day when every game seems to focus on being 12.4 minutes or shorter (et tu, Max Payne 2?).

And, ofcourse, there is a TON of replayability in Deus Ex. I'm actually going through it right now again, just to get in the mood for the sequel, and fuck me if I didn't find a whole conversation I hadn't ever seen before.

I think 30 hours is a good length. It's not too long so that nobody (except me, I always seem to finish a game no matter how stupidly long it is. I fucking finished Might & Magic VI!) finishes it, and it was definitely long enough to please everyone except Rajuju

I felt that, for its story, the length made sense. The story wasn't rushed, came to full fruition, you got to play through the whole thing, and it finished when it should. Damn, I wish I could think of one single other title that ever did that...

As for DX : IW being shorter, I don't like it myself either, but I'd rather have 20 hours of Deus Ex (and replay it ten times probably) than no Deus Ex at all.

As for no SDK, shrug, there were all of six mods or so being made for Deus Ex, the first of which was released like earlier this year. Not exactly a thriving community there. I'd rather they ship Thief 3.
Another thing about Mods, unless Dan Simmons writes it, any mod for Deus Ex is just going to feel bland compared to the original, don't you think?

Creston

This comment was edited on Oct 27, 17:51.

instead of a full out SDK, there should at least be a mission designer for Deus Ex. Like a flight sim's mission designer, here you wouldn't be able to modify the content or levels directly, instead you would only be able to change the objectives, enemies, storyline, etc. So basically you'd be playing the same maps over and over, but since Deus Ex's world is so large, with hundreds of rooms, drawers, and computers to access.. the replay value would still be huge. Custom mission designers could create new experiences in the original environments.

I wish all FPS games would attempt to do this. So far not a single FPS game has. Instead they release a really complicated set of editor tools that less than 1% of its fanbase ever figure out how to use. With dedication and countless hours of work, a die-hard fan can create a brilliant new map. But they are few and far between. Some day, I hope, mission designers will be catered to the casual gamer... and let people just enjoy the preset maps in new and simple ways. (Think Warcraft/Starcraft map editors)

Oh, and adding multiplayer co-op would be cool too.

I want System Shock 3!!

Tell me about it!

Supporter of the "A fredster By Any Other Name Is Still The Same" fan club.

http://www.loopz.co.uk/

I think we can do without halo style LENGHT(ie repeating rooms and shitty enemies)

And halo's " Ok you made it this far, back you go, back though all those repeating rooms and shitty enemies with a few more crappier ones throwen in for good measure."

Also I hate games that when you get close to the end it throws a stack load of puzzels or a maze ( or wierd jumping dreams ) just to slow you down.

I was hoping for MOD capability because IMHO, The renderer (ion storm tore out unreals and replaced it as well as the Havock physics engine for Karma)in DX-IA is superior to unreal's current offering. Makes the game much better looking than normal Unreal fare from what I saw in the movie demo. And after working with hammer/worldcraft (3.4)lately, it's got nothing on UnrealEd 3.0 though. Too bad.

I want System Shock 3!!

if you thought dx1 was short, what about the max payne games?
The Star trek FPS?
the Star wars FPS?

each of those was about half the length.

I think we can do without halo style LENGHT(ie repeating rooms and shitty enemies)