Half-Life 2: Delay? Maybe, Playable? Yes

New delay for Half-Life sequel on BBC News (thanks Eraserhead) has a quote from Christophe Ramboz of Vivendi Universal Games on the Half-Life 2 source code theft that takes a completely different direction than the talk of four month delays found in a different article (story), as they have him saying: "Vivendi Universal Games is only the distributor of the product, which is produced by the US studio Valve and so it will up to them to make an announcement." Meanwhile, Thieves steal playable version of Half-Life 2 on CNN Money contradicts reports that downplay the amount of code stolen, choosing to reveal that the Source source thieves "also stole enough game maps and other components to put together a playable build of the game. Today, five days after the first leak, they have released that build."
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191 Replies. 10 pages. Viewing page 4.
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131.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 23:50
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 23:50
Oct 7, 2003, 23:50
 
Snag, you should reread Timothy B's post from Gamespy. This is serious. It is something that could be expoited in a way that makes your pc vulnerable to attack while you play the game.

If this is true though, it's probably a blessing that this source made it's way out into the light. Having the source code for something doesn't automatically make it insecure. Just look at the example of Linux; everyone and thier dog has access to the Linux source, yet it still powers a good deal of the underlying infrastructure of the internet.

It could very well be that whoever gained access to the source decided to release it to show the world what a pittifully insecure application it is.
---
Chris.
130.
 
No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 23:38
No subject Oct 7, 2003, 23:38
Oct 7, 2003, 23:38
 
Well it never really made sence, who would break in and only steal 1/3 of the code, if they are good enough (or bad enough) to get in and be in for a month it must be the whole game. Gabe (the Head Honcho) wouldnt have just a 1/3 of the code on his puter. This totally sux0rs, instead of delay they need to just put the game out asap. Just keep the Multiplayer portion shutdown till they can deal with this. At least they would get the game out there in single player form.
So sad

This comment was edited on Oct 7, 23:40.
Scorpio Slasher: ... What about you boy, what do hate?
Marcus: ... Bullies. Tiny d*ck egotists who hurt people for no reason, make people lock their doors at night. People who make general existence worse, people like you.
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129.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 23:14
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 23:14
Oct 7, 2003, 23:14
 
It was from Gamespot. But yeah, with all those security holes they can learn from the source code Vavle would have had no choice but to delay the game for the sake of protecting us all. It also explains why the delay happened so late, as they weren't probably sure something was stolen besides some clues of it being copied and such. And now we learn that the Steam source code might have been in there too, wow, that really makes things screwed up.

128.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 23:11
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 23:11
Oct 7, 2003, 23:11
 
for sure, i have no doubt of that. it is a network enabled application...client-host application set. But should someone get life in prison over it? I just think a lot of people are putting too much emotion into their posts rather than any form of common sense because of how anxious they were to play the game.

To think I don't think this is serious is lunacy. But it is only serious to GAMERS, Valve and Vivendi right now. It is not important to banks, oil companies or my employer. My world will not come to an end. And for that matter, I will not feel sorry for someone who failed to protect themselves. I can't. Sorry. That is like feeling sorry for John Wayne Bobbit. Hmmm....physically assault your wife and then trustingly sleep next to her expecting her NOT to slice your pecker off???

I am only downplaying any emotion. Not the ramifications of what this means.

127.
 
Re: I'm honestly shocked...
Oct 7, 2003, 23:05
Re: I'm honestly shocked... Oct 7, 2003, 23:05
Oct 7, 2003, 23:05
 
good story, file that under "pulled out of the ass"

126.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 23:03
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 23:03
Oct 7, 2003, 23:03
 
Snag, you should reread Timothy B's post from Gamespy. This is serious. It is something that could be expoited in a way that makes your pc vulnerable to attack while you play the game.

-Tony!!!;)
-Tony!!!;)
my 360 user name is Robo Pop
125.
 
Re: I'm honestly shocked...
Oct 7, 2003, 23:01
Re: I'm honestly shocked... Oct 7, 2003, 23:01
Oct 7, 2003, 23:01
 
Ok guys, I'll try to explain it from a developper's perspective.

The code was stolen early september. Valve found out, but the code wasn't "out" yet. They contacted the FBI and tried to recover it. When the hackers started to feel the heat (or maybe they were trying to blackmail Valve, who knows?), they released it in the public. This is when Valve decided to delay.

The game was finished. The code that is out is the completed code (people have been successful in compiling it, something that they couldn't have done if it truly was 1/3 or the code) and now, the resources files (the "beta") prove the content was pretty much completed too.

They decided to delay because the code contains a lot of sensitive information, like the CD authentification and the online protocols. If they had released it, hackers would have been able to program cheats easily. And cheats on a high-profile game like this one kills the community, thus killing sales (who wants to play on servers full of cheaters?). And the CD authentification means that we would have been swamped with "serial generators". They would have lost too many sales, and that's the bottom line for any company.

For anyone to say that Valve leaked the code on purpose to generate publicity doesn't understand how many millions Valve is gonna lose because of that. I'm not sure there's gonna be a Valve in the next two years. They're gonna get sued by those that licensed some code to them that was included in the leaked code, and they're gonna lose a lot of sales. They must have invested anything between 5 and 10 millions developping the game, and they're pretty sure to never make it back in revenus. No one would do that "on purpose" just to justify a delay. Everyone expects a delay anyway.

The delay is not to rewrite the entire game. 90% of the source will stay the same. But they need to change the online communications protocols, the steam authentification, the key authentification, etc. And they need to analyse their own code to spot any security holes that possible hackers could use.

This comment was edited on Oct 7, 23:05.
124.
 
No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 23:00
No subject Oct 7, 2003, 23:00
Oct 7, 2003, 23:00
 
Ya, like you're going to find it on Kazaa haha.

It's not gay porn btw. As someone said, you check certain message boards and you can see people discussing the beta with eachother and how to set the thing up to play a game.

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ExcessDan
123.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 22:58
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 22:58
Oct 7, 2003, 22:58
 
nah, the thieves stealing line fits much better.

122.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 22:51
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 22:51
Oct 7, 2003, 22:51
 
Monty,

"So you are comparing locking up Thieves and hackers with the extermination of 15 million men women and children?"

You did it to yourself guy.
"I would register everyones name in a international database" Hmmm....Hitler made the Jews register. I don't think he said anything about killing Jews!

As for the rest of you talking about imprisonment for life etc...Shut the holy fu**ing hell up about it. So a game gets delayed. So some people lose money. There are such bigger issues that happen everyday that nobody says shit about.

What about a negligent employer who doesn't maintain equipment and now a little girl lost her daddy? Hell, a real story that maybe some of you could have some emotional opinion of: Danny Heatly essentially killed a very good friend and teammate by driving like an idiot. Should he get the death penalty? Life in prison? His buddy died for focks sake yet nobody is calling for his head!!

So many people here don't have a focking clue how real life works and should really get a clue. Life imprisonment. Ban from the internet.

Despite the fact a law was broken, Valve will get no such sympathy from me. Just as a family who puts their Christmas presents in the front window and leaves the front door unlocked, they can and should expect not to come home to see their treasures there. Valve was negligent. Gabe in particular was IGNORANT!! Yes, you read right. Working for Microsoft for 15 years, if anyone should know the importance of updating your windows and other MS products, it was him!!!

Sure, the perps deserve time. Not life....maybe a couple years. As far as bashing warez goes, I pirated Half Life. There, I admit it. But I went on to but HL, CS and OF. Just cause someone warez's something does not mean they will not buy the title. Those in the warez scene you should be lamenting is those who sell it...those are the real guys stealing money from developers/publishers.

And as for that CNN saying "Thieves steal playable version of Half-Life 2" they should tell the story as it is, Thieves take advantage of game developers complacency".

121.
 
Re: I'm honestly shocked...
Oct 7, 2003, 22:47
Re: I'm honestly shocked... Oct 7, 2003, 22:47
Oct 7, 2003, 22:47
 
1) Valve was going to release the game Sept 30. That implies that they had it in a state they were happy to ship.

3) They announce a FIVE MONTH delay to the game, to rewrite portions of the game.

The delay, as far as I know, is not yet official, and we don't know exactly why they'd be delaying it either. Again, as you don't sound like a game developer and definitely not a member of Valve, I really don't think you know what you're talking about.

If they are writing any code, it is bug fixes for stuff they WERE going to release with before they were given a convenient excuse to delay

Again, you don't know that. Where has Valve said that as a result of the theft they need 5 months to rewrite the game? Vivendi has said things to that effect, but not Valve. Besides, the game is clearly finished or very close.

~Steve

This comment was edited on Oct 7, 22:48.
120.
 
The source-code wasn't stolen
Oct 7, 2003, 22:42
The source-code wasn't stolen Oct 7, 2003, 22:42
Oct 7, 2003, 22:42
 
It just went open-source
Seriously though, I am truly heartily sick and tired of endless patches to the engine being the norm in the gaming industry.
What typically happens is that the programmer finishes (pretty much) the engine very early in the piece, then goes off to invent the next generation engine, while the artists and level designers create the content.
Then the game is finally released, only to be found to need maybe a series of 20 bug-fix releases. Wouldn't the programmer be better off being stuck with the one project until it's finished, then they might spend time getting the code right instead of leaving a mess while they go have fun elsewhere.
I'm looking forward to great advances in software quality when the if/when the class action against selling faulty software eventuates against M$, as this will affect ALL developers.
About time they got serious about verifiably correct code, and took the theory into practice!
(I code for a bank by day, embedded Telecoms and freight industry by night and weekends, if I turned out code like ID and Epic, I wouldn't have enough hours in the day to fix it!)


119.
 
Doom III
Oct 7, 2003, 22:37
Doom III Oct 7, 2003, 22:37
Oct 7, 2003, 22:37
 
I'm not buying Half Life 2 untill the price goes down AND some good mod's come out. If the current trend of delays continues then hopefully Doom III wil come out first and I can forget about H.L.2 for a while.

~Corky

118.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 22:35
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 22:35
Oct 7, 2003, 22:35
 
(This has probably been posted 10 times, but maybe not)

Taken from Gamespot:

Stolen Half-Life 2 code checks out as the real thing. Security expert calls it a "serious hack" with broad implication for gamers.

While investigating the now-infamous Half-Life 2 hack, Thor Larholm, senior security researcher for security firm PivX Solutions, obtained source code from available resources on the Internet and compiled the game. The program worked and appeared to be Half-Life 2, he said.

While some reports have focused on speculation that the digital thieves wanted a leg up in finding ways to cheat the game, Larholm stressed that the leaked source code could be used by hackers and others to find security holes in the program. This means that people who play the game online may be opening themselves up to attack.

"It is a very serious hack," Larholm stated. "It highlights some loose security policies. I definitely hope they catch these guys."

Valve wasn't the only one affected by the incident.

Components of the source code appear to be from other companies who had licensed the software to Valve, Larholm said. For example, some of the code apparently came from Havok--Dublin, Ireland's creator of software that emulates the physical interaction between in-game characters and their environments.

Steven Collins, chief technology officer for Havok, couldn't confirm whether the stolen code contained the company's software but said his company is investigating the issue. "We are working with Valve," Collins said. "I expect to be in a much more informed position in a few days."

In addition, the code from Valve's game distribution system, Steam, was also obtained online with the Half-Life 2 code, Larholm revealed.

By Robert Lemos, News.com [POSTED: 10/07/03 06:10 PM]

117.
 
Re: I'm honestly shocked...
Oct 7, 2003, 22:30
Re: I'm honestly shocked... Oct 7, 2003, 22:30
Oct 7, 2003, 22:30
 
Ok, so I looked, shoot me. It's like being married, I can touch as much as I want, I just can't touch...oh, but it's so tempting...

You meant look as much as you want right? If not I signed up for the wrong type of marraige.

I'm seriously considering banning myself from threads that involve posts regarding nazism.

-TPFKAS2S
http://www.braglio.org

-TPFKAS2S
Avatar 10139
116.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 22:02
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 22:02
Oct 7, 2003, 22:02
 
Thats not me bieng barbaric or a Nazi, it's just protecting society from dangerous people.
I belive thats more or less exactly what the Nazi's were saying...

As someone already pointed out, harsh punishments doesn't solve shit. It might make morons like you feel all warm and fuzzy, but it wont make crimes go away.

115.
 
No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 21:32
No subject Oct 7, 2003, 21:32
Oct 7, 2003, 21:32
 
JESUS CHRIST! Patience, young ones. All will be revealed in the near future... calm down. Whatever happens, the game will still eventually ship. They won't pull a DNF. And sometimes there's nothing you can do about delays.

There was only one catch and that was Catch-22
Who knows but that, on the lower frequencies, I speak for you?
http://citizenb.com/ - Now at v1.1
114.
 
Re: No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 21:29
Re: No subject Oct 7, 2003, 21:29
Oct 7, 2003, 21:29
 
don't you get sick of yammering endlessly and pointlessly about a game that isn't even released yet?

Not really, but if you're sick of reading our endless yammerings, feel free to browse elsewhere.

113.
 
No subject
Oct 7, 2003, 21:25
No subject Oct 7, 2003, 21:25
Oct 7, 2003, 21:25
 
don't you get sick of yammering endlessly and pointlessly about a game that isn't even released yet?

all these idiotic conspiracy theories too...who do you think you're convincing?..us, or yourself?

112.
 
Re: I'm honestly shocked...
Oct 7, 2003, 21:22
Re: I'm honestly shocked... Oct 7, 2003, 21:22
Oct 7, 2003, 21:22
 
Rigs is right, no more discussing anything in these discussion forums!

191 Replies. 10 pages. Viewing page 4.
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