Can we maybe put this to rest? The facts have been said almost 20 times in the same thread. We'll know more in a couple days, now that it's an international event (which I bet these theiving hacking bastards are lovin'), I don't think Valve or Vivendi are gonna keep quiet. Vivendi especially, they have shareholders busting down their door wanting to know why their one last saving grace for this year is not gonna make it...Bet they're kicking themselves in the ass now for cancelling Babylon 5: ITF...


=-Rigs-=


'And on the eleventh day, when 'soon' had come to pass, Papyrus rested and said "Be happy with what you have, there will not be a second patch!"'
This comment was edited on Oct 7, 21:16.

Throw your hand is the air and sing with me, UH.

We don't need no hackers, let the mutha f*ckas burn!
Burn, Mutha F*ckas, BURN!!!

-Tony!!!;)

> "Valve missed their ship date. Hackers have nothing to do with this."

You clrearly don't understand what happend.
The source theft ocurred at the begining of setember. So, they discovered the theft and halted the release.
Or will you ship a game when cheaters have a way to cheat online and ruin the game for good?

Hackers(crakers) are the only ones to blame! The are destroying the game industry with events like this.
One thing is to stole a CD, another is stolling the machine that makes the CDs.

Burn the madafaca who stolled the source!

granted, some laws are right ridiculous - but do you think, harder punishments can solve all this ?? look at the US (assuming that you're from UK ?): death sentence is still in use but does this change anything ?? sure, murderers are "regretting everything" and crying for mommy before their execution, but at the same time n other crimes are commited. to change the situation you have to change the people (well ok, ruining or killing [sorry: "amputation of hands"] everyone who has a pc is also a change, but maybe not such a great idea, see above) - but harder punishment did never (in the whole history of mankind) change something.

And never forget - "the one who is without a single flaw might throw the first stone" [these are for sure not the exact words as I'm not religious and don't know the book] ... but are you ? honestly I'm not...

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everyone who finds a spelling error can keep it and use it as a base for his own errors

Yes I buy ALL my software, I ain't a thief. Thats what amazes me about some of you people, you talk as if it's normal to steal things, I guess I am a dying breed but I respect other people hard work, unlike the majority of you thieving bastards.

These hackers that cripple companies with viruses and destroy years of work should be locked up for at least 15 years. Thats not me bieng barbaric or a Nazi, it's just protecting society from dangerous people.

You don't seem to realise that some companies go to the wall through hackers, the staff are then jobless which then sometimes results in losing their home. Then debt gets larger unless they can quickly find another job, it can ruin your life. So whats wrong with ruining theirs?

I suppose to some of you lot it's all harmless fun, maybe you should get out more and see that the world is real and things have a cause and effect. Valve have put in years with this game and it all came close to ruin all because of a selfish prick, bring back the birtch.

I agree... I just can't buy into the fact that a hacker got in there and took everything. I work as a programmer for a very small software company, and we're not even allowed to access the Internet with the machines we use to access the source tree. It's just too vulnerable. In fact, we're not even allowed to use Outlook or IE on those machines... not even for our Intranet. Something's fishy...

wow man, here in the US we give people death sometimes for murder. That's pretty fitting. Also life in prision. My friend spent a year in jail for credit card fraud. Move to the US, we need more soldiers.

Name 1 punnishment that fits the crime? Rapists in the UK get 3 years, murderers are out after 8 years and thieves are told not to do it again as it's very very naughty.

Bollocks, the world is full of do-gooders, if we started coming down hard on these on-line burglars software may start to improve with the added income. How would you like to get robbed every week of £35?

well if i'd be cynical I would say it was just 11 mill. not 15... but I'm not...

but: a) you consider yourself perfect [so you have every little shareware tool bought or deleted right after the 30 day-trial? respect...] b) accuse everyone [don't be a dreamer, not everyone might have that money you can spend on your tools] and c) just want to punish them; not instantly kill em (how large-hearted of you) but chopp the hands off; not really better as they could get an infection and die anyway or bleed to death

...and you think thats normal ???

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everyone who finds a spelling error can keep it and use it as a base for his own errors

> Thank you, Mr. Carmack. I'm glad you could weigh in on
> the situation with your intimate knowledge of the
> processes in question.

You don't need an intimate knowledge of anything to see what's going on here.

1) Valve was going to release the game Sept 30. That implies that they had it in a state they were happy to ship.

2) They announce the source was stolen (and I know it is out there, I'm not denying that).

3) They announce a FIVE MONTH delay to the game, to rewrite portions of the game.

Now for a game that was previously 100% finished, five months is a long time. What could they possible need to rewrite? If their game and its supporting systems (ie: Steam) were secure, as one would assume they would be before they released, what is the harm in having other people look at the code? Having people look at the code does not make a secure system vulnerable. Just look at Linux.

If they are writing any code, it is bug fixes for stuff they WERE going to release with before they were given a convenient excuse to delay. And with the "launch" of Steam, they really needed that excuse.

The fact that Valve expects its customers to buy this little sob story is what's really insulting. Bottom line, the game is delayed. Valve missed their ship date. Hackers have nothing to do with this.

7 Million then, 10 million, erm 2 million.... like it makes any difference to my argument.

I thought you seemed naziesque too and was tempted to call you one, but didn't wish to flame. The punishment should fit the crime.

with the extermination of 15 million men women and children?

Oh, so it's up to 15 million now? And I suppose you're going to tell me that 10 thousand died on 9/11...


I'm probably going to hell for that statement,
=-Rigs-=

'And on the eleventh day, when 'soon' had come to pass, Papyrus rested and said "Be happy with what you have, there will not be a second patch!"'

#95
So you are comparing locking up Thieves and hackers with the extermination of 15 million men women and children?

I C and what mental hospital are you currently chatting from?

Welp, the beta's not on Kazaa...at least that's what I've been told...maybe that 'person' needs to look for a different file/title name...Hmmm...

Ok, so I looked, shoot me. It's like being married, I can touch as much as I want, I just can't touch...oh, but it's so tempting...


=-Rigs-=




'And on the eleventh day, when 'soon' had come to pass, Papyrus rested and said "Be happy with what you have, there will not be a second patch!"'
This comment was edited on Oct 7, 20:33.

> 3) Releasing the source code on purpose does
> WAAAAYYYY more damage then even delaying the game
> another 3 years!!!

No it doesn't. The greatest damage is that other companies can take a peek into what makes HL2 so leet, but many other companies already have better looking games, so that's no big deal.

This source leak doesn't damage Valve monetarily, except for the people who may get a pre-release copy and not buy the retail version. But face it, those people are going to warez the game anyway.

#88: congratulation - the last time someone said something like this was some 70 years ago... it had somehow to do with jews...

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everyone who finds a spelling error can keep it and use it as a base for his own errors

The fact that they need another five months to finish the game means that if Valve WOULD HAVE released HL2 last week, we would all have been stuck with another buggy POS game.

...

Aside from that possiblity, there isn't anything they need to rewrite.

Thank you, Mr. Carmack. I'm glad you could weigh in on the situation with your intimate knowledge of the processes in question.

~Steve

I don't think you have any right to say anything, after the crap you just said.

> This also brings up the question, who would legitamately
> have a copy of the beta and then leak it? A hardware
> vendor, perhaps?

Well, I imagine a lot of IHV's would have a copy. Nvidia, ATI, Creative, and others surely would. Microsoft would probably have a copy for DX/XP/whatever certification. And one of the readme's with the source (um, I heard) mentions IHV's specifically, so chances are tons of people have seen/played it already. I don't doubt that some tester at one of these companies zipped a copy up and took it home.

If I were Nvidia, after Valve has repeatedly bitch slapped me in the media, I might turn a blind eye to a beta being leaked, especially if it's buggy. Of course, if I were Valve, I would watermark each leaked file to verify the source. But then again, Valve has proven to not be so bright.