Temple of Elemental Evil to Ship Early

Atari sends word that Temple of Elemental Evil, Troika's Greyhawk-inspired D&D RPG, is going to be showing up in stores on Tuesday, about a week earlier than planned. Here's the deal:
Atari and Troika Games are pleased to announce that The Temple of Elemental Evilâ„¢ will now ship on September 16th and not September 23rd as previously reported. After years of research into the science of time travel and the mysticism of interactive entertainment distribution, Atari has achieved a breakthrough in the melding of the two disciplines. As a result of this revolutionary achievement, The Temple of Elemental Evil will now appear on retail stores shelves nationwide seven days earlier than originally anticipated.
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52 Replies. 3 pages. Viewing page 1.
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52.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 14, 2003, 12:16
52.
Re: No subject Sep 14, 2003, 12:16
Sep 14, 2003, 12:16
 
Can we all at least agree that Diablo is NOT an RPG?

Avatar 6580
51.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 14, 2003, 05:45
51.
Re: No subject Sep 14, 2003, 05:45
Sep 14, 2003, 05:45
 
Scottish, you might not call it an RPG, but then you tend to not call BG an RPG, either, and the fact remains that - deserved or not - mostly everyone else does consider Dungeon Siege to be an RPG and if I recall correctly, it even got the odd RPG of the year award.

That said, maybe you're right and what is currently called the RPG genre needs a renaming since hardly any of the games are really role-playing games, but I really don't see that idea gaining many followers. Personally, I like both "real" RPGs and what-everyone-else-considers-to-be-RPG, so I'm essentially fine with things.

50.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 14, 2003, 02:53
50.
Re: No subject Sep 14, 2003, 02:53
Sep 14, 2003, 02:53
 
I want a roleplaying game not a tactical combat game

Hear hear. Someone can create the greatest set of combat rules, but still have zero role-playing. This is why I love Morrowind. Although the combat is fairly simplistic, the role-playing aspect is sublime - never have I felt quite so much like I was really in the game, interacting with characters, doing what I want to do instead of what the designers want me to do.

So, my point is that the fact that ToEE is using 3.5ed reuls does nothing at all to boost my confidence. It's what they use it for that I will keep my eyes on.
This comment was edited on Sep 14, 02:54.
49.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 14, 2003, 01:50
49.
Re: No subject Sep 14, 2003, 01:50
Sep 14, 2003, 01:50
 
Fair enough but I wouldn't exactly call Dungeon Siege an RPG. More like an isometric action game.

48.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 20:26
48.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 20:26
Sep 13, 2003, 20:26
 
Don't get me wrong I think DND CRPGs can be entertaining, I just think rulesets designed specifically for the PC do a much better job.
That's really a risk I prefer not to take. With ADnD, I know what to expect, it's tried and tested and it's been fun in the past. With custom CRPG rulesets, hell knows if it's good or bad - remember Dungeon Siege? That said, I do like games who innovate by creating good rulesets, but those games are a rare breed. On the other hand, a faithful (read: not Por2) implementation of ADnD rarely disappoints (me).

47.
 
No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 18:36
47.
No subject Sep 13, 2003, 18:36
Sep 13, 2003, 18:36
 
Scottish - D&D was originally designed to be a tabletop game that you played with minatures, like a mutation of the classic wargames. Thats why the new rules flesh out the system better and pay respect to the original idea. It is essentially a tactical combat game with acting and storytelling. But thats why its called DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS. It was all about those hexed out dungeons filled with monsters and treasure.

______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
46.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 15:33
46.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 15:33
Sep 13, 2003, 15:33
 
If you don't even like AD&D or 3rd Ed D&D, then I fail to see why you're even in this thread. That's like someone who hates LotR going into a Middle Earth Online thread.

Because I enjoy good roleplaying games and I hope that ToEE will be better than I expect. My main point is:

A) Troika has so far demonstrated innovative gameplay ideas but piss poor execution. It doesn't matter how innovative your game is if your game falls flat in the execution. As such I regard ToEE with guarded optimism.

B) A ruleset designed specifically for the PC is vastly superior than a ruleset designed specifically for the tabletop.

All three of them did the original design of Fallout, the world, the story, etc.

We come back to concept versus execution again. The three (along with Chris Taylor, Jason Taylor and Scott Campbell) did the conceptual design, but none of the execution. They created a great world for the game but not the gameplay itself, and personally I like Fallout because of the latter. If we look to Arcanum we see some of the best world building in any CRPG but the gameplay itself falls flat. As a result I didn't really care for Arcanum despite how much I wanted to like it.

What in the hell are you talking about? Jason Anderson was the Senior Artist and Leonard Boyarsky was the Art Director/Lead Artist

Correct, I had been under the impression that they were lower level at that time when a check of the Fallout manual proves otherwise.

boring NPCs

I call BS on that one. That's your opinion

Virgil was cool, but I sure as hell can't remember the names of the other people in my party. Perhaps because they were lacking in personality?

You seem to have forgotten that (Arcanum) did win GotY awards.

The only other decent CRPG that I can think of that came out in 2001 was ToB and that was by far the weakest part of the BG series. Arcanum won CRPG of the Year because it was the only high profile CRPG to come out that year.


45.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 15:12
45.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 15:12
Sep 13, 2003, 15:12
 
Unless you have played both the ORIGINAL pen and paper advanced dungeons and dragons, invented by Gary Gygax.. AND the version 3.5, which was designed by Wizards of the Coast.. you cant really comment on how good the translation to PC is because the newer one is almost like a extracted set of video game rules. The mechanics for tabletop combat are INFINITELY more complex than the old system from the 80s, and the way it is all hex based means it translates 100% to video games.

True but I want a roleplaying game not a tactical combat game. My experience with DnD has been that the rules always interfere with the gameplay rather than facilitate it, for example in each of the 7 gaming groups I've been in at least half of a play session is devoted to bitching over the rules. Being a rule Nazi is important in a tactical combat game like Battletech but shouldn't be necessary in a RPG, afterall it should be about roleplaying. The DnD ruleset does a great job of establishing combat rules but leaves a lot to be desired when it comes NPC interaction and problem solving rules, leaving most of it up to the DM. The PC isn't capable of the discretion of the DM, hence systems outside of the DnD ruleset have to be set up in order to compensate.

A ruleset specifically designed for a DM-less CRPG can take all of this in stride and typically does a better job than DnD. I think a lot of the appeal for DnD on the PC is largely out of nostalgia, not because it is the best CRPG ruleset. Don't get me wrong I think DND CRPGs can be entertaining, I just think rulesets designed specifically for the PC do a much better job.

44.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 15:09
44.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 15:09
Sep 13, 2003, 15:09
 
Oh yeah huge differance. Lets see a shitty ruleset that was never meant to go on the PC or a mediocre ruleset that was never meant to go on the PC.
If you don't even like AD&D or 3rd Ed D&D, then I fail to see why you're even in this thread. That's like someone who hates LotR going into a Middle Earth Online thread.
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
43.
 
Re: oldschool RPG
Sep 13, 2003, 15:06
43.
Re: oldschool RPG Sep 13, 2003, 15:06
Sep 13, 2003, 15:06
 
A piss poor engine wasn't Arcanum's only problem. Horrible combat, unbalanced character development,
Actually, it wasn't the character development that was unbalanced, it was the character types themselves that were unbalanced. The character DEVELOPMENT itself I had no problem with.
Not that either of these will be a problem with ToEE, since they are using 3.5 ed rules and much improved combat.

boring NPCs
I call BS on that one. That's your opinion.

and nonfunctioning multiplayer
Which is a problem that Deus Ex had too. And yet you still see ISA being praised like hell.
Arcanum was designed as a single player game, regardless of what MP was tossed in at the last minute.

The previews and intervies leading up to Arcanum had me convinced that it would be the greatest CRPG ever made, better than Fallout and better than Planescape: Torment. It turned out to be much less than that
The only factual (as in, not opinion) problems with the game were the poor combat, player imbalance, and aged graphics. You seem to have forgotten that it did win GotY awards.
We already know that ToEE amends these problems anyway.

As for Troika the company I think they're overrated. Everyone seems dead set on attributing the genius of Fallout to Troika's founders.
All three of them did the original design of Fallout, the world, the story, etc.

qTim Cain played a big role in the development of Fallout but he sure as hell wasn't the only guy with a big role, conceptual design (world building and setting a theme for the game, not level, quest or dialogue design) and lead programming don't make the entire game.Tim Cain was the lead programmer and PROJECT LEAD for the game.

The only other two Troika members that worked on Fallout were both low level artists.
What in the hell are you talking about? Jason Anderson was the Senior Artist and Leonard Boyarsky was the Art Director/Lead Artist!


This comment was edited on Sep 13, 15:12.
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42.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 14:23
42.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 14:23
Sep 13, 2003, 14:23
 
Actually you trigger an attack of opportunity if you EXIT or move THROUGH (not merely entering) an area threatened by your enemy OR if you do something distracting while within an enemy's threat range. A distracting action is defined as any action that takes your attention away from the act of active self-defense... such as drinking a potion.

This comment was edited on Sep 13, 14:25.
41.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 14:07
41.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 14:07
Sep 13, 2003, 14:07
 
From what I've seen it seems pretty intuitive... I'm sure the average PC gamer could pick it up.

Attacks of oppertunity - if you run into or out of an enemy's yellow circle (threat range), they get a free attack (and same for enemies moving in/out of your circle).

Variable amounts of cover - more cover = better defense against ranged attacks...

I'm sure they will make things easy to pick up.

40.
 
No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 13:54
40.
No subject Sep 13, 2003, 13:54
Sep 13, 2003, 13:54
 
oh and people who are familiar with the PnP version of 3.5 D&D will be much better off in terms of tactics, because you know alot more about exploiting different aspects of combat like "attacks of opportunity" and variable amounts of cover, etc.

your average PC gamer probably has no reason to get excited about this game, but people who have been playing RPGs for over a decade will be in for a big treat

______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
39.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 13:51
39.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 13:51
Sep 13, 2003, 13:51
 
Watched the video for the first time. Looks pretty cool. I'll probably pick this one up.

38.
 
No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 13:45
38.
No subject Sep 13, 2003, 13:45
Sep 13, 2003, 13:45
 
Unless you have played both the ORIGINAL pen and paper advanced dungeons and dragons, invented by Gary Gygax.. AND the version 3.5, which was designed by Wizards of the Coast.. you cant really comment on how good the translation to PC is because the newer one is almost like a extracted set of video game rules. The mechanics for tabletop combat are INFINITELY more complex than the old system from the 80s, and the way it is all hex based means it translates 100% to video games.

Now, storytelling and GM interaction is a whole other matter - no video game will EVER be able to replace the actual pen and paper RPG experience. Its just not possible, because the GM can throw out the rules any time he wants and just freestyle it. Plus, he is a human being and can communicate to you in much more complex ways. BUT!! pen and paper RPG combat takes about 200x more time to do because of that. The PC games handle combat BEAUTIFULLY and quickly. No human error, noone lieing about their modifiers, noone forgetting modifiers, etc. etc.

______________________________________________
"When the bomb drops it'll be a bank holiday
Everybody happy in their tents and caravans
Everybody happy in their ignorance and apathy
No one realizes until the television breaks down..."

- SUBHUMANS
37.
 
AKA
Sep 13, 2003, 13:28
37.
AKA Sep 13, 2003, 13:28
Sep 13, 2003, 13:28
 
We realised it's just plain fucking stupid to hold a game in storerooms for a week without selling it, so we'll give just selling it when it's there a try.

Wonders will never cease.

Ofcourse, the fact that this release date is now one day BEFORE Jedi Academy and Homeworld 2 probably has nothing to do with it

Creston


Avatar 15604
36.
 
Re: Excellent.
Sep 13, 2003, 12:43
36.
Re: Excellent. Sep 13, 2003, 12:43
Sep 13, 2003, 12:43
 
Scottish Martial Arts, take a hike, ya dumbass snob.

35.
 
Excellent.
Sep 13, 2003, 12:29
35.
Excellent. Sep 13, 2003, 12:29
Sep 13, 2003, 12:29
 
I think the most appealing factor of this game for me is that it's turn-based. I've grown tired of real-time-try-to-control-8-people stuff. It's going to be alot more stategic than, say the Baulder's Gate series...

I think publishers / developers should do this "ship early" thing more often. Tell the community it will be out a week AFTER it will "really" be out and then surprise everyone by saying "It's coming out early!" It's good for morale

34.
 
Can't wait
Sep 13, 2003, 12:05
34.
Can't wait Sep 13, 2003, 12:05
Sep 13, 2003, 12:05
 
Just watched the gameplay walkthrough movie (thanks for the link, silonez) after taking forever to download it (could only find it on Fileplanet, which sucks huge). I gotta say, I'm now MUCH more optimistic about this game and can't wait to get my hands on it.

The only criticisms I have about the game, based solely on screenshots and movies, is that the character portrait art is horribly amateurish (the portraits from the Infinity Engine games put it to shame a hundred-fold), and the font is a generic and bland san-serif font. Yeah I know, a bit nit-picky perhaps, but it really makes the game itself feel kind of generic and bland (same goes for the party-creation interface).

But if those remain my only criticisms once I've played the game, I'll be one happy bugger. I haven't seen a half-decent RPG come out in a very, VERY long time.

Avatar 6580
33.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 13, 2003, 12:05
33.
Re: No subject Sep 13, 2003, 12:05
Sep 13, 2003, 12:05
 
3.5 ed isn't AD&D.

Oh yeah huge differance. Lets see a shitty ruleset that was never meant to go on the PC or a mediocre ruleset that was never meant to go on the PC. Which would you prefer?


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