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30.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 2, 2003, 07:58
hkm
30.
Re: Sierra... Sep 2, 2003, 07:58
Sep 2, 2003, 07:58
hkm
 
He didn't shoot himself in the foot. He left the whiners with a final, well placed "fuck you". I'll have to start buying more Sierra games now. This is just excellent!

Do not insult the customer? He didn't. He let that "community" know that it was insignificant and that he had put up with their shit for long enough.

Nothing insulting about that.

29.
 
Re: This War
Sep 2, 2003, 06:31
Eon
29.
Re: This War Sep 2, 2003, 06:31
Sep 2, 2003, 06:31
Eon
 
Do you know how much sales figures would be affected if a game hit it's marginal audience and not its "hardcore fanboy's"?

To paraphrase Douglas Addams in THGTTG "Not at all".

Unless, of course, your game is selling on the basis of its online Multiplayer. I would wager that this is NOT the case with Homeworld 2. I predict that either Alex got his pinkslip recently (or is expecting it) because of merger or that you'll see a large dose of ignorage over this.

Eon

28.
 
Re: This War
Sep 2, 2003, 03:57
28.
Re: This War Sep 2, 2003, 03:57
Sep 2, 2003, 03:57
 
Well, if it was cleared from higher up, then they'll still make an example of this clown. Either way he'll take the heat. If word got out that Sierra cleared that post they,d have to shut the message boards down because of the backlash. Any publicity is good publicity sometimes. Not at the expense of alienating your core audience which are the fanboys in the forums. Either way I imagine they'll exercise some damage control after the long weekend.

27.
 
Re: This War
Sep 2, 2003, 03:35
Eon
27.
Re: This War Sep 2, 2003, 03:35
Sep 2, 2003, 03:35
Eon
 
Well, he works for Vivendi in PR - so he has the life expectancy of a snowball in Hell right now anyway. Bearing all that in mind, I'm not sure it would be that hard to get clearance for a post like this.

I don't know - maybe he just posted off the top of his head. Maybe he didn't clear it first. But these are hard mistakes to make for someone who works dedicatedly in PR. Even people with only a peripheral involvement (like myself) wouldn't post like that unless it was damn well cleared by higher-ups.

Who here didn't look at that post and KNOW that it would be picked up by higher circulation sites than the original destination? And really - are WE such a bunch of rocket scientists?


Eon

26.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 2, 2003, 02:39
26.
Re: Sierra... Sep 2, 2003, 02:39
Sep 2, 2003, 02:39
 
* REMOVED *
This comment was deleted on Sep 2, 22:48.
25.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 20:46
nin
 
25.
Re: Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 20:46
Sep 1, 2003, 20:46
 nin
 
I'm with WD...it's about customer service. And if that's your job, that's your job. I get flack almost every day, but my job is to try and put on a positive front while providing the best service I can. Sure it gets frustrating - but like WD said, you NEVER bite that hand that feeds you. Because if you do, they'll quickly find someone else who won't. It's that simple...if they guy doesn't like his job, then it's time to move on. But his comments reflect badly on the company he's representing.

Supporter of the "A happy fredster is a muted fredster" fanclub.

http://www.kenandrews.com/
24.
 
Re: Disc Block
Sep 1, 2003, 20:44
24.
Re: Disc Block Sep 1, 2003, 20:44
Sep 1, 2003, 20:44
 
Hahaha, some marketdroid makes a stink and now everybody is going over to the HW2 site to check it out.

Duhhhh you just fell for the oldest marketing gizmoid in the book. "All publicity is good publicity."

Hahaha.. Suckers!

Avatar 18037
23.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 18:58
23.
Re: Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 18:58
Sep 1, 2003, 18:58
 
http://www.penny-arcade.com/view.php3?date=2003-09-01


I also post on the forum that everyones talking about now, and I am very critical of sierra. As are most of the people there, for some simple reasons.

It took months for sierra to acknowledge Homeworld2's existance, by putting up a teaser page that counted down to E3, 2002. E3 came and went and HW2 wasnt there, nor was anything mentioned about the game until a lot of people got annoyed and a few fansites decided to boycott relic until we heard something.

Relic and sierra then managed to wake up and got involved in a pre-arranged irc chat, where we were told more about HW2. Two of the things stated by sierra were "HW2 would be a world-wide simultaneous ship" and "There will be a beta test open to the public"

Fast forward to June, where Marweas (alex rodburg) shows up, and mentions that HW2 will be out in europe about 4 weeks after the US release. Then, middle of august (2 weeks before the game goes gold) someone contacts the head of PR at vivendi games, and receives the information that "There will be no Beta, or Demo" Im sure Marweas knew those details, but he had decided not to tell us.

Sierra bring this shit upon themselves, and then have the audacity to whine about "A small and insignificant community" causing them too much hassle.

I feel sorry for Relic in all of this, as they have been unable to do much to assist the fans with regards to info about the game, even tho they would have loved too.

22.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 18:54
22.
Re: Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 18:54
Sep 1, 2003, 18:54
 


21.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 18:17
21.
Re: Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 18:17
Sep 1, 2003, 18:17
 
True, none of us know the entire situation, but what part of UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES DO YOU INSULT THE CUSTOMER don't you understand? If you can't stand the heat get out of the kitchen but don't make an ass of yourself on the way out is all I'm saying. As a company rep it's your JOB to take the high road in a situation like this, not stoop to the others' level. That only results in people laughing and pointing at you, and rightly so. If he'd said nothing and bowed out gracefully nobody would have ever heard about this. Instead he had to come off like the punks that drove him over the edge. EVERYBODY likes to laugh at an asshole. Especially when he shoots himself in the foot. Don't be such a bleeding heart.

20.
 
Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 15:35
20.
Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 15:35
Sep 1, 2003, 15:35
 
Tex & WebDemon -

While I agree that his post is certainly not great customer-service, lets remember that we're seeing a TINY snippet of conversation from what has probably been a months-long ordeal.

Before jumping on anything like this, remember that we don't know the full story. I haven't seen a single post on Blue's here by anyone that was a regular user of that forum - and Alex hasn't gone into detail about the history from his side either; so its safe to say that NONE of us have the right to make flat judgements about the entire situation - because none of use KNOW the entire situation.

--Noel "HB" Wade


19.
 
Re: A career suicide?
Sep 1, 2003, 14:40
19.
Re: A career suicide? Sep 1, 2003, 14:40
Sep 1, 2003, 14:40
 
True it probably won't affect sales, but...
I can gaurentee that there's no way that post was cleared from upstairs. If that was the case he's have been told to just stop posting, end of story. As for being upper management, not likely he sounds too stupid, plus that crowd doesn't get their hands dirty EVER. I've worked in advertising for 15 years now and deal with clients who are more often thatn not, Satan himself. The number one rule?
Under NO circumstances do you EVER insult the customer. He may have been dealing with a bunch of whiners but not even
George Broussard has been this insulting to the customers and he's almost as big an ass-hat as Derek Smart. A bunch of whiners or not, these are the people who ALLOW you to have a job, NEVER BITE THE HAND THAT FEEDS!!! It's the corner stone of business practice and there are no exceptions.

18.
 
A career suicide?
Sep 1, 2003, 11:49
Eon
18.
A career suicide? Sep 1, 2003, 11:49
Sep 1, 2003, 11:49
Eon
 
In short - no.

I have direct experience with this phenomenon, I have stood in the same place that this guy was standing and although I didn't bow out in the same manner he did, I DID stop posting at my game's forum and it was at the ORDER of higher management, because the amount of time I was spending firefighting was deemed to be all out of proportion to the PR value of said firefighting.

Now, some people will claim that if the game is good enough there won't be the NEED for fire fighting in public forums. It's a nice theory - except that by this yardstick there hasn't BEEN a decent game released in the last five years!

Back on track - I have two predictions:

1. That post was cleared via higher management, or the guy involved IS higher management.

2. It will have a zero effect on sales.


Eon

17.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 10:19
Rigs
 
17.
Re: Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 10:19
Sep 1, 2003, 10:19
 Rigs
 
Looks like the board is down now...hmmm, I wonder why?

=-Rigs-=

All Day Repeat: Oasis - F*cking In The Bushes
'We put this festival on you bastards, with a lotta love, We worked for one year for you pigs, and you wanna break our wall down? Are you gonna' f*cking try it? Well, you go to hell! '
Avatar 14292
16.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 09:56
Rigs
 
16.
Re: Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 09:56
Sep 1, 2003, 09:56
 Rigs
 
The second they canned Babylon 5 - into the fire ...

I'm glad someone besides me remembers that and still hates Sierra with a passion for it. B5, the game, coulda been the next Half-Life of space-sims, certainly better than Freelancer. Having played an alpha version at E3 years back, it just blew you away, much like Freespace did when it came out. What was Sierra thinking?!? They sacked B5 in favor of Homeworld. Blech! Let them burn just like Interplay, they've lost their way...

=-Rigs-=

All Day Repeat: Oasis - F*cking In The Bushes
'We put this festival on you bastards, with a lotta love, We worked for one year for you pigs, and you wanna break our wall down? Are you gonna' f*cking try it? Well, you go to hell! '
Avatar 14292
15.
 
YES! Damn whiners...
Sep 1, 2003, 06:09
hkm
15.
YES! Damn whiners... Sep 1, 2003, 06:09
Sep 1, 2003, 06:09
hkm
 
FINALLY someone has the guts to speak up against the masses of mindless whiners out there. It is about time that the whiners get some resistance. They constantly whine about games and try to order gaming companies around. They have no constructive criticism, but instead, ruins everything for everyone.

Marweas did the right thing. He left that piece of shit "community" because it simply isn't worth it to spend time there just to get bitching and whining back.

Let's face it. That "community" is mostly bashing Sierra and whining and bitching. That "community" is tiny. Why should the people from Sierra waste their time on an insignificant group of whiners?

Finally, I love this. Please let more gaming companies speak up against the crybabies in the world - maybe once day these morons will be silenced.

14.
 
Re: Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 04:17
14.
Re: Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 04:17
Sep 1, 2003, 04:17
 
The second they canned Babylon 5 - into the fire ... and a shit load of games and teams, you got an idea of EXACTLY where the company stands. They ARE hemeraging money and someone from the company does somthin stupid like that, and it makes you question the integredy of the people workin there. After that B5 debocal - I swore off sierra games, making an exception only for half life and now HL2. I hope valve finds a new publisher because it makes me sick that I'm helping to support the scurge of the industry.

I would like proof that sierra is listening to a damn thing anyone in any of their various communities has said

13.
 
No subject
Sep 1, 2003, 03:39
13.
No subject Sep 1, 2003, 03:39
Sep 1, 2003, 03:39
 
Hehehe, Blue gets pushed over the line by Fredrickson/Fredster and stops posting.

Oh my, I have a sick imagination... 8D

12.
 
Sierra...
Sep 1, 2003, 02:14
12.
Sierra... Sep 1, 2003, 02:14
Sep 1, 2003, 02:14
 
I just want to point something out, as a former Sierra & WON.net employee (who was one of hundreds laid-off when Vivendi had to admit its 19 BILLION-dollar "financial irregularities"):

Yes, Sierra is a big corporate company (or, at least it was).

Yes, there is (or was) a LOT of mediocre middle and upper-management.

Yes, they ARE concerned about the bottom-line.

HOWEVER, please remember that the VAST majority of people in the company are just regular joes trying to do their job - given the restrictions of time, money, and orders from the management. The core of the company is still small groups of people "getting it done". Without them putting in a lot of work, a lot of the games you love would not make the shelves.

So keep that in mind before you flame someone - ask yourself "If I was working there, how would I take this message?" You'd be amazed at how much more info and cooperation you'll get out of folks if you treat them with respect... Asking questions like "Why wasn't this like X?" will get you a LOT FARTHER then accusations like "You shoulda made this like X, you #$*&@ idiots!!"

As one who had to deal with the community on a few occassions when WON.net was getting the shaft, I can truthfully tell you that its HARD to sit there and just take baseless criticism over and over. Or have people announcing rumors as "fact", or make totally false accusations (don't even get me started on the whole Soldier-Of-Fortune thing)...

You can't always talk details, due to legal issues; and if you try to defend yourself you either inspire more criticism, make the company look bad, or sound rude. The inability to really respond IN PERSON is harsh - if I could, I'd love to round up all the gamers out there and walk them through some publishing companies, and development studios - so they could see a few of the difficulties, restrictions, and financial realities that have to be balanced when making a game.

Most of the game players out there have never been - and never will be - involved with the creation and sale of a software title. Due to the young demographic, most don't even understand normal business practices or the economics & legal issues involved with games. It makes having online communities a VERY "double-edged sword" - as EVERYONE has an equal voice to pronounce "facts", even when they have no qualifications or information.

Now, I'm not saying that we have to *like* big corporations or anything - but to those who think that games don't have to be driven by the "bottom-line" at all, lemme ask you this: Are YOU going to put up the $2,000,000+ that it takes to make a "Triple-A title" these days? And if you DID, and then waited 2 or 4 or 5 YEARS for the title to actually be made - don't you think you'd be a WEE BIT interested in making your money back? Stop and think for a minute - I mean REALLY THINK about those numbers. Can you think of all the things you can BUY with $2,000,000? How about the YEARS of work - think back 4 years and try to remember everything you did every day of the week for that entire span. Can you concieve of working on ONE THING that entire time, from 8am to 5pm Monday through Friday?

Now with these numbers in mind, wouldn't you be interested in making to pay off, when good marketting of a title at conventions and such before release could mean the difference between making a $1,000,000 profit, and losing a $2,000,000 investment (news flash: only the top _5%_ of all games break even or make money!!!)

I'm willing to bet that a LOT of you out there aren't even making a salary that's 2% of what most games cost... I'm not criticizing your income - I'm trying to get the point across that money is a SERIOUS DEAL in gaming. You don't have to like all the side-effects that this entails; but you do have to realize that this is a reality.

Okay, enough ranting for one night. Take care,

--Noel "HB" Wade
noel_wade@hotmail.com


11.
 
Re: Excellent PR
Sep 1, 2003, 02:12
11.
Re: Excellent PR Sep 1, 2003, 02:12
Sep 1, 2003, 02:12
 
LMFAO!! That guy from Sierra was priceless!!! I've never seen anyone implode and commit career suicide like that before. Sure people bitched a lot on those forums, but I've seen worse. This guy's either a real panty-waist with paper thin skin or he's some loser who thinks himself far above a lowly PR guy on the message boards and is taking it out on the customers because his life blows! None the less, it was awsome! I suspect that Tuesday morning is gonna suck for this ass-hat. Definately a pillar of customer service this one.

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