er.. what's a "se?l" ?

Update: woops, looks like that was a type-o that was fixed after this.


This comment was edited on Aug 22, 13:01.

Maybe for the next game Carmack can convince everyone that the move keys are unnecessary. The player could sit in a moving cart and shoot things in true arcade style!

If everyone followed JC's 'simplicity rules' theory, the games industry would never advance.

I'm curious to know what visual enhancements might be coming with the next generation engine after Doom 3. Anyone have any ideas or thoughts?

If everyone followed JC's 'simplicity rules' theory, the games industry would never advance.

Not necessarily, simpler is usually better just take a look at the differance between the two System Shock interfaces. They both accomplish the same functions, one just does it much easier. My belief is that you should always meet your design goals in the simplest way possible.

Rooms-above-rooms?

Rooms-above-rooms?

Get real, that kind of technology is decades away!!

this fucking article is recycled from a month ago im sick of this shit this is the quality reporting u want us to pay for wtf ? dont u know you have to pay royalties to cnn if u want to make money off their articles? maybe i should write them a letter the way u been treating me lately

• fly boy i will save you


• blue did you jerk off when your wife was gone


• these advertisements are outrageous
• where is my case mod link?


Dantastic you are the sweetest thing I ever did see.
Hard work makes money not pasting other peoples news submissions into Microsoft Frontpage.
Fredrickson De Paulo Francisco-Hernandez-Dantastic XXVII

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LIKE A BRIDGE OVER TROUBLED WATER I WILL LAY ME DOWN
CLAY AIKEN 4 EVA

You don't get it Fred. Blues is giving CNN online more clicks because of the links he provides. Thus, more business. Alot of us here only end up at CNN because of Blues News. I doubt CNN minds the extra traffic.

-Tony!!!;)

"Aerospace is plumbing with the volume turned up."
-John Carmack

LOL!!!

As to Carmacks ideas of simplicity, I'm not sure wtf he's thinking about with no crouch key. Especially in a per-poly hit detection game. It really IS a useful tool and necessity.

As for the use key, well, hey, I kinda agree with him on this. Why have it at all? If you walk up to something you can use, and it just works without you having to hit an extra key, why not? No big deal either way.

Also, it's funny that some of you are saying that if everyone felt like Carmack then games wouldn't ever advance. Stop eating lead paint. If it wasn't for CARMACK, first person shooters would never be at the advanced state they are today. HIS coding has made the visuals we take for granted today possible.

(He lost the debate over "crouch" – which now appears – but convinced the team there was no need for a "use" key.)

Of, if there is no need for a use key, how the hell do you open doors? Are they just going to open automatically, meaning you can not time your opening right to jump on the baddies? Is there not going to be ANY interactivity with the environment? If none at all, I think the game play is going to suffer greatly? As automated activity with everything is very annoying at times.

I do get what he is saying, about simplicity, but I mean come on, the whole point of the new graphics engine is to immerse you in the world, like never before. So why then would you not be allowed to interact with that environment, other wise it will be just like walking through a museum with a shotgun.

Here is to hoping someone at ID reads this forum and will clarify. Maybe he meant something different, and more involved as the “use” key?


"Science is but an organized system of ignorance."

From an article I read at GameSpy I think, you will use the Fire button when in front of a useable object. I can see lots of people accidentally blowing themself into little bitty pieces trying to "use" something.

Didn't you read all of the QuakeCon Doom3 MP previews from the past few weeks?? ;-) It was mentioned in those you'd just walk up to a switch/door/whatever, and you'd then be able to interact with it (flip the switch, open the door, whatever) by hitting the normal fire key... Eg: here's a preview that mentions it:

http://www.gamespy.com/quakecon2003/doom3/

"Not necessarily, simpler is usually better just take a look at the differance between the two System Shock interfaces. They both accomplish the same functions, one just does it much easier. My belief is that you should always meet your design goals in the simplest way possible."

That's true, but do you think the games industry would be where it is now if everyone made games as simple as Doom 3? Carmack admits to being an arcade fan; I think many modern gamers would disagree with him.

"Also, it's funny that some of you are saying that if everyone felt like Carmack then games wouldn't ever advance. Stop eating lead paint. If it wasn't for CARMACK, first person shooters would never be at the advanced state they are today. HIS coding has made the visuals we take for granted today possible."

I'm obviously not referring to graphics. Carmack is free to make game engines if that's what he wants, but it seems to me he doesn't know much about gameplay.

Actually they're implementing a new system called "Bumper Car Physics" (Patent Pending). You just run at full speed into various stone blocks and they automatically move because of ultra high technology proximity detectors. The real genious is where Carmack programmed those proximity detectors, which no other game has. Beat that Epic!

From the Gamespy preview: the game realizes when you're near an item to interact with, lowers your gun automatically, and allows you to interact using the primary fire button.

Call me pessimistic, but that doesn't fill me with confidence. What if you're busy trying to shoot a monster and back up close to a keypad, causing your gun to automatically lower and giving the monster a free lunch? Doesn't sound too good. It's hard to tell without actually playing, of course, but I think giving players a certain amount of control over their actions is worth the extra button.

Quake was the first game (afaik) that used server/client for it's game tech, and which probably helped it explode on to the online gaming world.

I don't know much about programming but from what I've read the only situation where p2p is better as far as gaming is concerned is with 2 machines. Any more than 2 machines and server/client is the superior method. Think about it, you and 3 other players are in the same room. With server/client you only have to tell the server where you are, what you are doing and only one machine where you need a good ping to. Now with p2p, you would have to send the same information to 3 other machines and hope that you have a good connection to all 3 instead of one?

So why did John Carmack, who pretty much brought server/client gaming to the forefront, do an about face and go back to p2p tech?

This crouch key issue has me worried. Is John even playing games at all these days? I mean, if he was to remove the crouch key from his game, I probably would never play it. It brings a huge chunk of realism to games, the fact that you can duck down behind things to sheild yourself, or hide. How gay would it be to just stand up all the time. I already find it rediculous that most games don't feature prone position, because it is a 100% natural reflex reaction as well.

Do the words "Get Down!" mean anything to you? And I'm not talking about Disco here.

I'm also not into seeing games become "dumbed down". Keep it simple? To a point, but don't over do it.

I've been wondering about what Riker described and had to wonder how they handle standing in a doorway (or near a door or using a door as cover) and trying to fire. I guess I'll just have to wait and see. I really doubt they would overlook something like this though...

That's true, but do you think the games industry would be where it is now if everyone made games as simple as Doom 3? Carmack admits to being an arcade fan; I think many modern gamers would disagree with him.

I'm not saying don't innovate, I'm saying include complex innovations just implement them simply. For example take Operation Flashpoint, the game's squad interface was so needlessly complicated it detracted from the overall experience. I'm willing to bet one of the top priorites over at Bohemia Interactive for the sequal is to have an interface that is actually usable. OpFlash was highly innovative it was just implemented in such a complex way that a lot of people were never able to properly enjoy the game.

Message to John Carmack:

The people who play your games are among the hardest of the hard-core as far as gamers go. There is no need to dumb down the gameplay for them, they have been playing your games for quite some time and I'm pretty sure they have a good grip on the controls. People have been playing FPS games for years with 'use' buttons, and they are quite happy with it because it allows them greater freedom to dictate when and where they interact with their environment. It is NOT fun to try to outrun monsters while shooting and run into a switch only to find out your rocket launcher didn't quite clear in time and you just shot a rocket directly into the wall, killing yourself. Any design decision to make the fire button the same button that needs to be used when close to walls or objects is idiotic. Really. We're smart kids, we can figure out how to make a 'use' button work. Thanks.

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For example take Operation Flashpoint, the game's squad interface was so needlessly complicated it detracted from the overall experience.
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I thought the interface was brilliant. You could perform very complex actions with your squad by simply remembering a sequence of two or three numbers to tell them what you want them to do. If you take the time to learn it and remember what numbrs correspond to what menus, you don't even have to look at the menus anymore. I can actually communicate with my troops faster than if I could speak. I don't have to tell my whole squad to get in that truck, I just push 4,1,1. Need your guys to scan the horizon? 3,7. Soon it becomes nothing more than memorizing a particular sequence of numbers. I hope they don't change it too much and add GUIs and all other sorts of useless crap that makes me have to take the time to point and click everywhere. Punching a couple of numbers takes literally only a second or two.

This comment was edited on Aug 22, 15:13.