wave-based respawn, coupled with well designed maps, introduce a great deal of tactical elements that simply never exist in Counter-strike. I've played Firearms, and Firearms is definately not coupled with well designed maps.. or good gameplay of any sort if you ask me. The maps are extremely linear, fighting occurs in the same places over and over. Ambushes in unexpected areas or flanks are very rare. Also, when you ARE flanked, combat occurs at such a sluggish and clumsy pace that it's rarely worth it to ambush in the first place. The combat is repetitive, and unexciting. I don't remember seeing a DOD-like capture and hold system, either.

In CS, most servers enable "kill indicators" that appear in the top right. Thus, as time progresses, you constantly have a general sense of just how many enemies are left to deal with, and how many allies you have. DOD feels a lot closer to what a real war situation would be like.. you have a fog of war, you don't know what areas of the maps are being attacked in greater numbers than others, and camping positions are always changing due to the fact that battle lines are being redrawn every second. In CS, when both teams spawn, they have a rough estimate as to how likely it is for an enemy to be in a certain area, and so it's not uncommon to see the same areas being fought over.. again and again.

Another symptom of round-based games is that they do tend to have VERY simplistic maps that are often balanced so that both teams don't feel cheapened by certain powerful positions.

And again, the idea that wave-based respawn makes people behave tactically different is just not true. It has no basis, and if you watch people play DOD, you can see that their thought processes are identical to that of round-based games like CS. The only difference is that in DOD, the same processes occur much more often. I played CS for at least a year before making the switch to DOD. I haven't missed CS since. (if you haven't played DOD, you need to. Although it took a severe quality drop with the retail release..... and it is a requirement to download custom models/sounds and especially maps before the game really shines.)

This all being said, it's a shame other wave-based games like Enemy Territory don't take their system to their logical advantages. In ET, people keep respawning, and then going through very linear motions to attack the enemy objectives. If ET had a capture and hold system, things could be a lot better.

Are Americans still funding the IRA? Or has Bush and Blair's 'special friendship' put a stop to that?

The worst kind of Terrorists are those you have voted into government.

"what i dont get about urban terrer or counter-strike for that matter is the white terrists... terrists are from iraq, and have brown skin not white."

Terrorists come in all colors, they don't just come from Iraq.


RaZ0r!
Tweak Monkey and Gaming Extraordinaire =)
http://users.ign.com/about/Cutts
This comment was edited on Aug 11, 06:51.

constant respawn changes ones attitude towards the gameplay significantly. Round-based makes for an intense atmosphere where you have a vested interest in keeping yourself alive where constant respawn cheapens the whole experience to the point where its just becomes a pain in the ass to have to run all the way from the spawn point to where the action is. Look at Firearms (the HL mod). technically its superior to CS in many ways and its been around longer as well but at this point your lucky to see 100 servers running the mod where it used to be a much higher number. I blame constant respawn. Global Ops did a decent CR gametype by putting in meaningful objectives but we all know how popular that game turned out to be....

EDIT: hey Percolator Fish, spell it with me now "T-E-R-R-O-R-I-S-T"


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PAH!

This comment was edited on Aug 11, 05:57.

what i dont get about urban terrer or counter-strike for that matter is the white terrists... terrists are from iraq, and have brown skin not white.

makes me pissed of

semi round based like dod is the best.
ie: you still have to wait to respawn but its not an endless amount of time.
its like having a personal timeout for dieing hehe.

round based = teh suck.

It is to make death mean something in R6/AA/Flashpoint/etc.

Endless respawn = teh suck.

I wish round-based spawn system would be removed, almost entirely, in favor of the capture-and-hold flag system + wave-based respawn system of Day of Defeat. I'm totally baffled as to how people can find round-based spawn system the ideal way to go. It seems mathematically flawed, forcing a majority of players to spend up to 50% of their logged game time in "dead observer" mode. I've played both modes in many games very much, and I see no tactical/strategical scenarios that come up in round-based that wave-based doesn't provide just as well. In DOD, players behave exactly like their round-based counterparts. They fear death, they take cover, they work together.

in counter-terrorism games like Rainbow and CS, it makes sense. But it definately stops making sense when either game type has you in a MASSIVE level where 2 players can spend 5 minutes hunting each other down.. (see America's Army... aka "chatroom w/ game attached to it")

Day of Defeat introduced a round-based system, even on small CS-like maps it was not a popular feature. The game kicked round-based out entirely in the latest version, and no one missed it. CS, America's Army, and Rainbow Six, on the other hand, have never tried to implement a wave-based system...... and I think that if they did, along with suitable maps and capture-and-hold gameplay... that most of their fanbase would never go back to round-based.

yes im away of that. but they still made money off it.
if they hadn't of kept it free they would of had so much whinging from the community it wouldn't of been funny and valve wouldn't be anywhere near as rich as they are now which probably doesn't make much sense but its the truth.

I'm just saying the team that work on UT have never accepted money at all for their project, and it is still of a high caliber.

I'm not attempting to flame anyone or anything. each to his own, i personally play abit of all mods that are popular(dod,cs,UT etc.).

"they declined to keep it free and keep giving back to the community."

well to be accurate, CS is still free even though Valve put their budget behind it. For probably almost a year now it's been 100 percent free, as with the steam beta which is at no cost, you can play half-life or cs with no charge.

you can usually vote kick campers or at least find a server where you can.

wave-based and round-based spawning both have their purposes...

its also always been a free mod and hasn't been bought up like cs even though they have had offers to retail release it.
they declined to keep it free and keep giving back to the community.
i say kudos to the team as this is still a pretty killer mod for the q3 engine.
as far as i remember the new mode is the only round based mode in this mod.

This comment was edited on Aug 10, 21:20.

I'm not a fan of round based either. Regardless of the game, every server and every team has a sniper/camper that sits around waiting for the other sniper/camper on the other team to come out so they can finish off the round and of course everyone in the server except the 2 are waiting and waiting and waiting to respawn.

"The" Dan
http://users.ign.com/collection/Danteloupe

This mod has been eclipsed by Soldier of Fortune II

Or counter strike 1.6 , with the AWESOME RIOT SHIELD HAHAHAHAHAHAHHA. [actually, i like the shield]

I want a QuakeII Jailbreak revival!!!

any new weapons in this? Havent played in close to a year.

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PAH!

you are such a stupidass imposter

> Mirrored at http://www.bittorrents.com

and who the fuck are you??

i bet youre some american with another "great idea" of starting a shit site that in one week will turn into a pile of stinkin banners of penis enlargement.

haha american ppl are so fixated with their small penises.