Leaked as in news of there actually being a HL2. The head of Nvidia spilled the beans about the game before they were supposed to. Valve is very pissed about that.

"geez, let's stay to the facts and that is that currently NO card can run HL2 in AA mode!"

Obviously.

"ok, let's repeat it slowly. Centroid sampling is part of DX9.1 and it's currently unknown when DX9.1 is going to be released. This means that MS should have made centroid sampling mandatory in DX9.0 to circumvent this problem and not offer a feature in DX9.0 which will break AA and then offer a fix for it in DX9.1 when it already should have been part of the previous version.

Nvidia cannot be blamed for not implementing centroid sampling because it was not required. DX9.1 offers many new features which currently no cards support so you cannot really make ATI or nvidia guilty of not implementing them. BTW, both ATI and nvidia offer different features which are not yet part of DX9.0 but will be in the next revision. It's not that ATI is the only one with DX9.0+ hardware!"

Yes, and that's why I said it's too bad Nvidia failed to implement that feature when ATi had it over a year ago on their R300 chip.

I was looking forward to purchasing an FX.

"I don't think that ATI will release a driver which fixes this issue since it will be a time consuming process to fix it"

I doubt that.

http://www.nvnews.net/images/news/200307/HL2ATi.jpg

This comment was edited on Jul 23, 08:35.

geez, let's stay to the facts and that is that currently NO card can run HL2 in AA mode!

Too bad Nvidia failed to implement that feature when ATi had it over a year ago on their R300 chip

ok, let's repeat it slowly. Centroid sampling is part of DX9.1 and it's currently unknown when DX9.1 is going to be released. This means that MS should have made centroid sampling mandatory in DX9.0 to circumvent this problem and not offer a feature in DX9.0 which will break AA and then offer a fix for it in DX9.1 when it already should have been part of the previous version.

Nvidia cannot be blamed for not implementing centroid sampling because it was not required. DX9.1 offers many new features which currently no cards support so you cannot really make ATI or nvidia guilty of not implementing them. BTW, both ATI and nvidia offer different features which are not yet part of DX9.0 but will be in the next revision. It's not that ATI is the only one with DX9.0+ hardware!

Next problem is that as long as DX9.1 is not released, ATI cannot use centroid sampling on their current cards (I'm talking about DX9 not OpenGL!). So they need to go for supersampling which again is used currently on nvidia cards and not on ATI cards! But, the problem here is that current color compression techniques and Early Z tests will not work with supersampling on either ATI or nvidia cards... therefore an enormous performance hit will be noticeable on both cards if pure supersampling is used...

Again, currently NO card can do FSAA in HL2 and I don't think that ATI will release a driver which fixes this issue since it will be a time consuming process to fix it, will result in a major performance hit and anyway no card below the 9700-9800 or the 5800-5900 will be able to do FSAA in HL2 at resolutions of 1024x768 or above. Adding to that, the R420 and nv40 will fix this issue due to proper centroid sampling support...

ok, now again back to the topic


This comment was edited on Jul 23, 07:58.

"Maybe if Valve could write proper code for once this wouldn't happen"

Maybe if Nvidia could design proper hardware for once this wouldn't happen.

"Too bad that centroid sampling is part of PS 3.0 which is again part of DX9.1 and NOT DX9.0 which is supported by current high-end cards"

That's correct. Too bad Nvidia failed to implement that feature when ATi had it over a year ago on their R300 chip.

"It's just funny that exactly supersampling in combination with multisampling is used by GeForce FX cards in 4xS and above AA modes but ATI is currently not able to do it at all"

I'd say it's funny that ATi can use proper FSAA in HL2 but Nvidia is currently not able to do it at all.

But it's not funny, it's actually quite pathetic.

It's actually Nvidia's fault for not supporting Centroid sampling (a DX9 feature) in their hardware.

Too bad that centroid sampling is part of PS 3.0 which is again part of DX9.1 and NOT DX9.0 which is supported by current high-end cards

Anyway, current Radeons (9500-9800) might be able to do AA in HL2 with a driver update but not because of centroid sampling (since there is currently no way to activate this feature) but due to the help of supersampling... as explained by some valve guy.

It's just funny that exactly supersampling in combination with multisampling is used by GeForce FX cards in 4xS and above AA modes but ATI is currently not able to do it at all

This comment was edited on Jul 23, 06:40.

Intriguing.

NVIDIA fanboys in a bitch fight with Valve fanboys.

Valve blames NVIDIA. NVIDIA fanboys blame Valve.

Maybe if Valve could write proper code for once this wouldn't happen

HL2 leaked - huh?

"So Hellbinder, taking the ATI biased jargon out of your post"

Would you mind showing us what "ATI biased jargon" he used in his post?

"the latest Nvidia gpus won't run HL2 well because Valve was too lazy to do a two pronged development approach (much like Carmack is doing with Doom 3)."

Doom 3 uses OpenGL. There is no need for a similar development approach when referring to Half-Life 2 (DirectX).

"Then it's no one's fault but Valve's that the game doesn't run well on Nvidia cards."

It's actually Nvidia's fault for not supporting Centroid sampling (a DX9 feature) in their hardware.

Dark Fiber, calm down and get your facts straight.

http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6917
http://www.beyond3d.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=6938

If you have read some of Carmacks comments on how he likes to make games. You would know that he believes in having a good idea of what the game will be. Setting time lines and meeting them. No design changes mid stream. ID has always said when it's done it's done. But they also have a track record of finishing games by the holiday season. D3 has been in development for awhile now. The only reason I can think of for the delay is they know HL2 is going to kick ass. It's a smart move. Don't be surprised though if D3 doesn't come out until next october. Maybe a test demo during the summer.

HL2 got leaked? holy shit, are you serious?

Good. Hold this sucker off until im done school! ^_^

Dark Fiber,

Do you really think Valve would screw their own game up and risk alienating a huge portion of the gaming market by purposely making nvidia cards perform worse with their game? That would be a galactically stupid business move.

Some of you should get into writing Soap Opera's or something. The drama around here is reaching new heights

More people will have the right hardware setup by the time this is released. Makes sense from that point of view.
I just wish they'd update www.ua-corp.com with some kind of artwork or something.

Hellbinder said...

"Better go read soem threads at Beyond3d and some of the latest interviews with the Valve guys. The Entire DX9 developent of HL2 was done on the Radeon cards. Also the Nv35 is screwed for FSAA in that game. But most importantly becuase the Nv30/35 has flat out screwed up Pixel and Vertex shaders it cant run the HQ HL2 shaders worth a DAMN. In fact it was stated in reference at B3d that the Lead Valve guys says that the 9800pro runs the DX9 shaders for HL2 5x-10X FASTER than the 5900U.
This is the bottom line truth. Its only going to get worse with future games that use even more shaders. Unless of course Nvidia gets away with even more application detection and IQ hacking than they are now."

What a bunch of religious CRAP! Valve is pissed at NVIDIA for leaking HL2. Any of your so called "truth" is related to that!

The only performance difference is that NV3x is better than R3x0 at running long complex shaders and R3x0 is better than NV3x at running really short, simple
shaders.

If you say it's only going to get worse with future games, then you must really mean with the R3x0.

pure and simple. It would not surprise me in the least if Halo PC, or HL 2 was delayed now. Hell, GSCs publisher delayed STALKER. The list just goes on and on and on adinfinitum. lol Just keep on delaying the game releases, so all us gamers can do is play hardware wars, about who has the most rightious tech card. Without the games tho, there is no gaming. Hopefully Carsmack takes the time and adds some cooler than thou mp capabilities to their mp-less game.

And here I was thinking before the end of 2003 we`d see some really cool gaming. Hah!!!!!

This comment was edited on Jul 23, 01:24.

"Emm I don't think that DX2 is gong to be released this year either, I can't remember what site I read it on (anybody here read it and know what site it was) but the reporter claimed that Eidos had comfirmed to him that DX2 would not ship before the end of the year, and if that is delayed (if its true) what is going to happen to my beloved Thief 3?"

That report was false, according to a DX2 developer. It's still on track for 2003.

I am upset about the delay as well, but I think it was a good call. No live PC demo at E3, something was not right! I think Valve called up Id and told them a head of time that HL2 is coming out soon. So Id backed off and now gives them more time to work on Doom3. They would have caused a major hurt on each others sales. We all know that people will be playing HL2 for months. So this will give us time to get HL2 out of our system, then later go to Doom3. What I am surprised to know that DX2 is delay, I thought that game was done and ready to ship. Guess not! I hope Farcry comes out this year I really want to play that game. But you never know.

Hey, this gives them more time to polish up their zombie and spider AI!

---------------------------------------------
"Sometimes the best way to get rid of the fleas is to just kill the damn cat."

I,m planning on getting a top of the line machine right before this comes out. Maybe Intel will have thier pentium 5 out in time for Doom. I just hope that the game turns out to be awesome or at least the games in the future that use the engine turn out to be good. I think wolfenstien with real time lighting will be insanely fun. I really hope ID doesnt fuck this one up,this has to be the most hyped and Anticipated game ever.It could take gaming in a new direction , or piss everone off who just bought a new rig just for this game, who knows. I bet 90% of you are going to upgrade or buy something new just for this game!

Valve plans to re-release every popular mod currently using the Half-Life engine and will see that modders have a full toolkit for converting their mods from HL to HL2.

The implications of this statement are truly staggering IMO (Think Counter-Strike.) If they pull this off Valve can totally own purely from the longevity and popularity HL2 will achieve in the gaming community.

Having said that, I'm still certain that plenty of top commercial outfits will pick up the DOOM engine. Especially those who already have a relationship with id and are planning on making sequels to well-established Q3 titles. What THEY are able to do with the D3 engine, well I dunno, the possibilities are mind-boggling (A MoH game in the D3 engine anyone?)

I really was expecting D3 somewhere around the 10th anniversary of the Original though. Oh well no big deal.