I agree with PsycSui

Nvidia is becoming super arrogant and they lose almost daily to ATi, the FX5800-5900 line is a joke and yet price tags are sky high, FX cards have as many "hardware" problems as ATi has software ones.

It's unfortunate that some have you have bowed to the god of "I must have the latest graphics card" I have a Ti 4600 and WONT be changing for at least a year! I'm sure I'll be able to run Halflife 2 just fine :-)By then Nvidia & ATi will have released at least 2 more generation of cards and the 9800 Pro will be £100. Bring it on.

If you're really stupid enough to judge a game based on an incomplete 18-20 month old ( by the time D3 is released ) alpha build demo then you don't deserve to commit of forums.

As for Valve sleeping with ATI and id courting Nvidia. That's simple. Nvidia leaked some information on HL2, ATI leaked a whole alpha demo build for D3!

id made the smarter move by using OpenGL. Who cares what features MS has tried to add to DirectX 9 that should have been held off to 9.1 You don't code for features that no hardware supports or is even due to support until 6month to year after your game is released.
By using OpenGL id should be able to port to Linux ( an ever growing market ) and to Apple Mac. Epic for some reason went both ways a produced an engine for OpenGL and DirectX, though why they bothered when the OpenGL seems to run faster on all the systems I've tried it on. Maddox did the same with IL2 and that ran faster on OpenGL too.

SamBecket... says retarded things for free. What a bargain.

Here is a news in yahoo:
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030723/tc_nm/leisure_doom_delay_dc

I hope id Software people speak about this delay. :-(

Dont know about you guys, but who hasnt already played the Doom 3 alpha. From what i saw from that, the game is going to suck. The Quake 4 screenshots sucked too. 2004 will be the year ID died.

-":-!$#!$ASDWF!@!-:"-

I think Anon is a turd troll.

"give us some games that can actually make us of what we have NOW!"

I remember when they`d release 1 or 2 good cards, and a ton of great games. Now... they release a ton of good vid cards, and no games at all to showcase em. And when they finally do release a worthy title, it`s the old golden handshake to the card you have, and the PR hype is deftly directed at the NEW card that just pissed obsolete all over your current awesome card that hardly saw nary a game to even make it put up a decent sweat.

With these fucking delays, and Game Devs crying out now how a title will now see a 3 to 5 year developement time, it won`t be the gamers who wear it. Uh uh. Ati and nVidia are gonna wear it.
Why you ask? Cause there is now no longer any need for anyone to buy every incarnation that comes along in the 6 month card release plans of each card developer. Because, there are no games coming. So go ahead Carmacks of the Dev world. Delay your freaking titles till the cows come home.

i think id should remember 'u cant polish a turd', even in a few more months.

If you only have a GF3 you'll be missing out on some of the cool features. Particularly the DX 9 stuff. It's not just about a card being able to move polys fast enough.

-Tony!!!;)

This all just means I'll get more for my money when I finally upgrade (about the day D3 goes gold). The rig I've had for over a year now still pisses thru every game I throw at it, and to be honest I'm expecting HL2 to play fine on it as well.

As someone already said, its the gfx card companies that will feel the sting from this. I can't really see that anyone needs a gfx card faster than about a GF3 just yet.


IMO NVIDIA and ATI should just concentrate on their bog standard ranges for the time-being - the underpowered cheapy cards that end up in Dell PCs for instance. Work on that market-share. These current 256 meg cards and that bloody hairdrier are all just a waste of money atm.

ill wait till i hear it from john carmack at qcon 2003

Old Geezer, get a grip. The 9800 is going to run DOOM3 fine. Your 9700 would have run DOOM3 fine. If you weren't a freak spender, you wouldn't have this problem. I've held off upgrading my video card until the last second because of this. It's not id's fault you're a n00b.

Hardware developers need to beef up the importance of security. Neither ATI nor NVidia is interested in keeping secret the information handed to them by game developers. Their only goal is to have the fastest card to run that game, and the ability to show it publicly. Both ATI and NVidia have slipped up, and both are in hot water with major developers.

NVidia is turning into 3DFX. They better get on the ball. Their arrogance is starting to show, and it's allowing ATI to take the cake.

Valve also annoys me. They constantly tout ATI when NVidia has just as good a product out there. The reason for this? Money. Valve is in bed with ATI. They both made a killing at E3, which leaves NVidia in cold water. With DOOM3 delayed, the only thing that the 5900U runs faster than the 9800Pro, NVidia is in deep doodoo. This can only mean one thing: price cuts =)

Expect the 5900U to drop in price significantly. They have to undercut ATI to get their advantage back, because ATI has the faster card for a cheaper price.

Price wars in hardware need to come back. I have been suspicious of ATI and NVidia doing some price fixing because the cost of their cards haven't dropped a cent since their release. This is not in-character for the hardware industry. The fact that NVidia was arrogant enough to release the 5900U with a $500 price tag is, to me, a joke. I hope they don't get away with it, especially since the 9800 Pro is for the most part a faster card.

Both ATI and NVidia are seedy companies. Both have cheated on benchmarks numerous times, and both have leaked confidential information about games that their partners are developing. It's a shame that we have to buy one of their cards, since they're both bastard companies.

You know what I'm sick of? - Buying the latest and greatest video card, only to hear an announcement that the best card is about to be released in a couple of months by the same manufacturer. WTF. 9700pro comes out, and within a few months, the 9800. The 9700 was supposed to be 'the' Doom3 card. I bought it. Then the 9800 is supposedly 'the' Doom3 card. So I, and a million other idiots run out and grab it. Now I find out the jerks at ATI are already announcing the next 'greatest' chip just months away, and the jerks at ID are telling us it'll be next year now, as if another four $#*&ing chipsets won't be released by then. My days of upgrading my computer are over. If it turns out Halflife2 and Doom3 don't run all that well on 9800 cards, then they can shove their games. I'll keep buying everything that runs on this machine, and when that doesn't work anymore, I'll buy a Playstation3 or Nintendo Gamesphere or whatever the hell is out. I have a 9800 and there isn't any game worth playing out there that I couldn't be running well on my old Geforce 4200! If ID's stategy is to hype the hell out of their game so everyone runs out and upgrades, it's gonna backfire on them, cuz everyone who just bought an FX or 9x00 card and finds out ID's POS will run like a slideshow on their systems are gonna say FU ID. Think about it...the E3 Demo is unoptimized, sure....but even if the final code could run that demo at twice the framerate, there's nothing going on yet! A couple of retarded (absolutely no AI) zombies walking straight at you does not tax your cpu. What do you think would happen if you had five enemies shooting at you whilst dodging your bullets and working out stategies (sneak around and flank you...not scripted either)...in other words...if there was actually a game being processed as well as the graphics. For Doom3 to run decently on todays hottest hardware, it's going to have to be a boring pile of steaming braindead zombie-shooting/target-practice crap. That's probably why they're holding off on the release- So that more than 2 percent of the gaming public has the hardware to at least run it with all the eye candy turned off at an acceptable framerate. You really believe that BS about the minimum hardware requirements? Will the game run in wireframe mode?! If you want an immersive gaming experience with lots of action and Doom3's graphics, you'll likely have to wait until 'the' Doom3 card comes out....not the next 'the' Doom3 card, but likely 3 or 4 'the' Doom3 cards down the road. Screw off with the new chipsets and overhyped vaporware...give us some games that can actually make us of what we have NOW!

you already asked that in the other D3 thread....wierdo...

Any comments made by id members, whilst not quoting dates, definitely gave a very real impression it would be out this year.

Wasn't there some talk of Microsoft offering them a shitload to hold off the release of Doom 3 until it was also ready for X-Box? If there is a delay, this could be the reason.

Still, I'll keep planning on having HL-2 and Doom 3 to love/play this holiday season until someone from id states otherwise.

I'm looking forward to them both, along with Contract JACK. Finally played Nolf2 and it was one of the best games I've played, so more of that is welcome, even if some of the graphics lack and some excel.

will there be any black people in Doom3?

Do they need more time for the beholder animations or something??

>The implications of this statement are truly staggering IMO (Think Counter-Strike.) If they pull this off Valve can totally own purely from the longevity and popularity HL2 will achieve in the gaming community. <

You can almost guarantee there won't be a Save As or similar functionality to export HL1 to HL2. Yes, they will make the toolkit capable of converting - but so what? You'll have a bunch of HL1 maps and models running on an HL2 graphics engine. This was bandied about with UT2003 - the ability to convert old maps and virtually nobody bothered, preferring to restart from scratch.

And any significant updates to the codebase will likely have a modster wanting to start most of his work over. Again, a similarity can be made here to the evolution of UT to UT2003. Yeah, I probably could have simply exported some of my old scripts over and called it a day, but they wouldn't have played nice or as well as the rest of the classes in the code.

Sure, some HL mods will port - but let's home some nice new ones come about as well.