The best games can never be too expensive.

Valve never mentions NVidia in any of their press releases or public events. The only time they have mentioned NVidia since HL2 was announced has been to say that you can't have AA on in HL2 with a Geforce card. ATI has positioned itself in a way that is benificial when it comes to HL2. There is no doubt in my mind about that.

id is not bowing down to any Microsoft deals. Why? Because they're probably the single richest game development company in the world. when you stack up all the game sales, licenses, co-developed products, you have to come to the conclusion that id pulls out millions every year. Heck, JC has had a Ferrari, and now he spends his time funding/developing high-tech space rockets. id is a PC game development company that is concerned only with the PC. When DOOM3 comes out for the XBox, it will have been transfered to the console by anopther company, as always.

id will take the money from sucker XBox buyers, but it will not change its release schedule because of preasure from Microsoft.

Another thing to note is that id put "Coming 2003" right on their big DOOM3 banner at E3 last year. id has NEVER EVER fallen short of any kind of announced release date. They will not fall short of 2003.

This comment was edited on Jul 25, 12:26.

I hear ya. I'm only 23, but I feel the same way. And I remember playing the original Wolfenstein (older games too, but for some reason that one stands out the most).

As for the price tag, I find $50 a little steep. Don't get me wrong, I gladly shell out my hard-earned cash whenever a new game comes out. Its' just that, for example, in the next few months a bunch of games are coming out that I want to play: HL2, Tron 2.0, X^2, and Halo PC. That's over $200.

I'm hoping the replay value on at least 1 or 2 of those games will be worth it.
This comment was edited on Jul 25, 12:09.

I'm extremely excited about the releases of these games (D3/HL2). Do any of you guys remember playing Doom shareware? or Heretic? I feel so old mentioning that...I feel as if it were 30 years ago or something that I played those games. Those games go into my all time favorite games list. Even if D3 isnt that good as we expect it to be, I'll probably still end up buying it because im a devoted fan of ID and Valve.

$50 for a damn good pc game is a pretty cheap price when you look at how many hours you'll be playing it. Gee, those console games are that much and they dont have this much time invested to develop the game.

I remember when the Geforce3 came out. ID showed a demo of D3 on the GF3. That was suppsed to be the D3 card. I bought mine for $300. I have already replaced it. I don't know why when I haven't played a new game on my computer since the upgrade. I have been playing my game cube. I just spent $800 on an ABIT IC7-G, 1 gig of pc3500 ram, P4 2.4C, Zalman 7000cu cooler and an ATA133 controller. I could be pissed about the delay. But naaa. I probobly would have bought the stuff anyway.

"Valve also annoys me. They constantly tout ATI when NVidia has just as good a product out there. The reason for this? Money. Valve is in bed with ATI. They both made a killing at E3, which leaves NVidia in cold water. With DOOM3 delayed, the only thing that the 5900U runs faster than the 9800Pro, NVidia is in deep doodoo. This can only mean one thing: price cuts =)"

Uh, what? How are they in bed with ATI? They were at the ATI booth, because at the time that was the best card on the market (the 5900 wasn't out yet). Apparently ATI drivers also worked better with HL2 at that moment. But they are working with both companies to solve their different issues.

In other words: you're pushing baseless innuendo.

I agree with you about the prices though. They are beyond silly at this point.

mark my words, this delay has got something to do with a simultaneous xbox release.

50fps vs 150fps is meaningless as far as the eye is concerned

Actually, the human eye visual threshold is at about 65 in center vision (some people have been documented as having higher, over 100), and the further you go out towards peripheral it goes up to over 120. But the reason you want the HIGHEST FPS, even well over what the eye can see. That is just the highest FPS. If your average was 50fps, that would mean in some case it drops well below that, which you will notice ALOT. And as the FPS drop below the eyes thresh it does start effecting the handling of the game.

That is just about the eye and fps. I am not commenting on getting some hardware for what game. I will not decide that till a demo, and I play it on various friends different hardware, or see if it runs good enough on my current.

I wasn't implying that anyone was screwing me...it was a rant, a commentary on the availability of ever improving hardware technology and the total vacuum of games that make use of it. All the hype is premature, and is accompanied by delay announcements. Arrg! Ya know? Hopefuly we've stopped at least one person reading these posts from wasting their money upgrading to a 9800/5900 like I did. 50fps vs 150fps is meaningless as far as the eye is concerned.

Thanks for the url...I wish they'd been allowed to say wether there was any "game" built into their version, or if it was just an 'optimized code' version of alpha demo. It is encouraging though.

Hey man, I'm just letting you know you should do atleast SOME research before you buy shit and then complain about id and how they're screwing you. You can't get on id's case for upgrading like a freak without a clue, it's not fair.

http://www.tomshardware.com/graphic/20030512/geforce_fx_5900-12.html

There's your precious URL. Just don't read the whole review and let Tom talk you into spending even more money on a GF FX 5900 Ultra.

I have a Ti 4600 and WONT be changing for at least a year! I'm sure I'll be able to run Halflife 2 just fine

I also think that many people might want to wait and see how well their current systems will run these games. Personally I am going to upgrade, but that's just because my system - P3 700mhz oc'd to 933mhz / Ti4200 (oc'd as well) - is just plain too old. Even with my creaky system I was able to run the D3 leak well enough to look around the thing.

One word of advise... if you're going to upgrade your system just for one of these games, wait till the game is actually out. I made my computer for Tribes 2 and bought the parts so I would have them just in time for the "planned" release date. Of course that got pushed back by months and it turned out I could have saved a lot of money had I waited.

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Hi, my name is WarPig and I have a drinking problem... two hands and just one mouth.

"Also, old geezer, if you had seen the benchmarks made by several hardware review sites when testing the 9800 pro on a test build of DOOM3, you'd see that it gets over 60fps on 1024x768 at high detail. This means the game WILL run fine on your current card."

You should have posted that info, along with an url or two, in your first reply (in other words: actually made an intelligent reply). Test build? You mean a different build than the leaked alpha? What hardware sites?

"So don't sweat yourself, missy".

Ugh...apparently I've been talking to someone's ill-mannered kid. Does your mom know you insult people online for kicks junior? How 'bout your councelor?

"While Activision may be in charge of most of its games schedules, I'm pretty sure id does what they want, even if it includes keeping their publisher in the dark. That's why Activision doesn't know anything about it."

I can't think of anything to say about this statement that would be any funnier than the statement itself.

"The new thought".... bah hah!...And I thought that I needed to get a life!

Hope you grow up to be a nice person, social n00b.

I agree with Psyc...they've got 4 months to work and could still ship in December. And we know how id likes to have a product available at Xmas.


Supporter of the "A happy fredster is a muted fredster" fanclub.

http://www.originaltrilogy.com/

Here's my thought: DOOM3 is on schedule. When has id ever been late on a game? Never. And based on interviews I've read, id is damn serious about getting this thing out the door in 2003. Also, they're having a playable version of the multiplayer at QuakeCon this year, which means they wouldn't be taking the extra time to add more multiplayer features. Also, this means that id is comfortable with letting people outside the company play with their code, which is something they don't do if it is in a questionable state. Granted, the Quake 3 test had some bugs, but this is a public event, not a hardcore beta test.

Another thing to think about is that this announcement was made by Activision, not id. id may be wary of giving anyone any information after the stunt that ATI pulled, so Activision may be in the dark on this. While Activision may be in charge of most of its games schedules, I'm pretty sure id does what they want, even if it includes keeping their publisher in the dark. That's why Activision doesn't know anything about it.

In the words of the Dude, new shit has come to light. id hasn't made any statements or posted any comments on Slashdot or anywhere else. They would've awknowledged something if they gave a rats behind, but they're so busy that they don't wanna trouble themselves with this kind of retardedness. They're just going to let Activision do their own thing, and then make a big announcement like Valve did.

That's my new theory.


Also, old geezer, if you had seen the benchmarks made by several hardware review sites when testing the 9800 pro on a test build of DOOM3, you'd see that it gets over 60fps on 1024x768 at high detail. This means the game WILL run fine on your current card. So don't sweat yourself, missy.

I for one think id isn't loosing too much sleep over HL2.

My opinion exactly

Maybe they’ll add multiplayer.

Doom 3 has repeatedly been stated to have multiplayer.

I for one think id isn't loosing too much sleep over HL2. Remember that we are on the verge of new engine technologies here, and there is more at stake here then there was during the relatively petty and shortsighted bickerings of the past (Remember MoHAA vs. RTCW?)

Even if DOOM 3's gameplay and replayability turns out to be Teh Suck and only a handful of fanatics buy it, as a mere tech demo it will still blow away 3rd-party devs looking for graphical superiority in their titles. Thus more millions in licensing fees to fuel Carmack's rocket engines, and id moves on.

I honestly don't see it as some sort of Duel of the Engine Titans. As it has been since Unreal I, it's all about choice.


This comment was edited on Jul 24, 05:10.

I would say that this has everything to do with Half-Life 2. The guys at iD are gamers. They know that their graphics engine will stomp everything into the ground for the next few years, even Half-Life 2. But the problem with Doom3 is that they have been making a short-spook game with the replay value of any good movie or book, but not the kind of replay value you can get from multiplayer games.
When Half-Life 2 was announced, I think that really shocked iD, because it showed that other developers weren’t really as far behind as iD had hoped they were. Doom revolutionized the way games were played & Half-Life 2 looks like it can do that all on its own. I think that iD realizes that the graphics of Doom3 are at least twice as good as Half-Life 2, but that the gameplay is at least twice as bad. I believe that iD is folding their hand at the table & taking a small loss now in order to drum up a better hand for the future. What they’ll be working on is anyone’s guess. Maybe they’ll add multiplayer. Maybe they’ll add more levels. Maybe they’ll make it more scalable for smaller than Cray supercomputer owners. Maybe they’ll create a smart random level generator. Whatever they do, they have to do something. Half-Life 2 is already ahead of Doom3 in anticipation levels & it is coming out in 2 months. I think that if iD is backing off to rethink the game, then Valve has made us happy twice. And that’s okay with me.

"The 9800 is going to run DOOM3 fine. Your 9700 would have run DOOM3 fine"

Forgive my impudence if I don't just take your word as gospel, but if you're going to make statements like that, you should at least post some logical explanation for your statements...are you a Doom III beta tester? Work for ID? Are a programmer and are privy to information regarding the system workload induced by the as-of-yet unseen elements of the game? Have a clue what you're talking about? What is your idea of running fine? For me, nothing but max-eye-candy settings at a minimum 30fps constitutes 'running fine'.

"If you weren't a freak spender, you wouldn't have this problem. I've held off upgrading my video card until the last second because of this. It's not id's fault you're a n00b"

Heh heh! Just because I have more money than brains, doesn't mean I'm a "nOOb" (is that the cool way to spell it?). Some people blow their paycheques in the bars, some blow them on subwoofers and disco lights for their cars...I'm a computer tech freak, and have been since the first S3 Virge 3d decellerator. But you're right about one thing; There's no point in buying the best card at top dollar right now as there is absolutely sweet f.a. for games out there that need them...and aparently there won't be for a while. Doom3, Halflife2, and LO-Mac will change that...whenever. If you have a Ti4200 or better, save your cash! That 9800/5900 will likely cost ALOT less by the time the games that really need them hit the shelves. And being a freak spender is a hoot! But for the first time ever, it's impossible to actually "upgrade" no matter what card comes out as the games themselves have become the bottleneck. Mafia at max settings with AA/AF is taking my breath away again though, heh heh. Not bad for an 'old' game.

Have a good one!

Sure, some HL mods will port - but let's home some nice new ones come about as well.

By implications I meant new versions of old mods. The most popular mods for HL already have enough weight in the community to surpass the game they were based on. Valve has a mod franchise in their hands.

Yes a good number of content will probably have to be rewritten to take advantage of new tech, but no doubt the core gameplay elements that distinguish the most popular of mods will be preserved.

The real problem with the the 3d Graphics Cards industry is that it is driven purely by video games. I think we'd see a lot better cards, better business sense, and a lot less "crap", if there were more reasons for the average joe to have a high end 3d card. When 3d cards first came out, there were promises of 3d GUI's for operating systems, 3d versions of excel, etc. None of that panned out, and the only people who really need 3D cards are us. Your average joe at Acme Corp. can get along just fine with a nice 2D card. Thus, the relatively small market that wants the latest and greatest stuff gets stuck with crappy business plans, backdoor deals, and generally gee-whiz, sleazy salesmanship that leads to customer dissatisfaction. Sometimes it sucks to be in the niche.

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