So basically, your argument has changed from "They need 15 dollars per month for upkeep" to "They need 15 dollars per month so they can eat, and hey my car is expensive too, as is every other game!"

Yeah that's a good argument there.

In any case, obviously I won't pay to play this, since it's nowhere near ready, and boring as fuck besides.

Creston

Stop making up numbers off the top of your head in order to try to justify that absurd 15 dollars Alak.
First of all, the kind of server you mention is NOT the kind of server in use by SOE. If it was, then the fucking cities wouldn't lag over 5 seconds when they have all of 60 players in them. Also, somewhere earlier I posted a comment on bandwith, I had actually done some looking up. For your 150.000 dollars of bandwith you can get 150.000 / 2.750 = 54 NxT1-6Mbps lines, which equals 324Mbps. If you think that this game has anything near a THOUSANDTH of that bandwith, you really need to fire up that network monitor (shift alt G if I remember correctly), and look how much data is sent to and from your machine. Now multiply that by 3000 people. Doesn't really get anywhere near it, now does it?

So what your saying is that SOE is running a bunch of cheap commedore 64 based servers off a cable connection? Those numbers were baseless I admit (so much for smart friends), but I do know what the servers are based on (although what they run is beyond me). Theres more to the server issue than can be explained on a forum. And as for justifing $15 a month. Look at EA's Motor City Online. It was the first MMO of its kind. It had a good population at first but then died off. There became so few people paying to play that they had to fire 75% of the staff. Then when that didn't work, they had to cap the game because the server maintenance and bandwidth cost was too much. EA is the by far the worlds largest developer and publisher of video games on any platform in history. Now look at this game, its 10x the magnitude and needs 10x the amount of employees maintaining it. They could charge $10 a month and 50% could lose jobs and the game would never improve. Or they could charge that extra $5 so Mr. Smith can go home to feed his family and brainstorm Ideas for what he can add to the game on monday morning. Besides its not our call anyhow. SOE Decreed $15 a month. Pay it or dont Play it. Whining will change nothing. Look at EQ. It was $9.99 a month. Then they raised it to $12.99 a month and people bitched. What did they do next? $14.99 a month. Hell even Planetside is expensive. Hell everything is expensive. My new Mustang was $58,000. I shelled out $500 for RAM alone in my computer. Besides, if you go on a plan, it can be as low as $12 a month Americans should be the last person to complain. Try living here where it evens out to $22 a Month. Or in Europe where its even more.

So you looking at at least $250,000 US for one complete Server setup, plus an average of (off the top of my head) perhaps about $150,000 US Bandwidth and maintenance per month.

Stop making up numbers off the top of your head in order to try to justify that absurd 15 dollars Alak.
First of all, the kind of server you mention is NOT the kind of server in use by SOE. If it was, then the fucking cities wouldn't lag over 5 seconds when they have all of 60 players in them. Also, somewhere earlier I posted a comment on bandwith, I had actually done some looking up. For your 150.000 dollars of bandwith you can get 150.000 / 2.750 = 54 NxT1-6Mbps lines, which equals 324Mbps. If you think that this game has anything near a THOUSANDTH of that bandwith, you really need to fire up that network monitor (shift alt G if I remember correctly), and look how much data is sent to and from your machine. Now multiply that by 3000 people. Doesn't really get anywhere near it, now does it?

Creston

Edit : If anything I would say its because EA said so when they made UO which (I believe) was the first MMORPG that was pay to play per month

Meridian59 I believe, actually.

This comment was edited on Jun 20, 01:50.

Bugbread, # 127 :

SWG does try to cater for the non combat oriented players, in my opinion actually a bit too much, but there is stuff for them to do. However, the stuff there actually IS for them to do is boring as shit. An artisan spends literally DAYS just sitting around mining resources. Or at least, until he reaches such a level when he can build harvesters, who then do the harvesting for him. The end result is still that you sit around on your ass waiting for your resources.
Once you finally reach decent skill levels, you can start building some cool stuff (or at least, that's how it's supposed to work, but it doesn't really, because the higher level stuff has always been broken and is still not fixed), but everybody makes the same stuff, since there are only a few blueprints to go along. I mean, an Architect sounds like fun, but don't think you can build a house like you can in the Sims. You can build one of a prefabricated 15-20 or so houses. Which look exactly like all the houses in all the spaceports, which funny enough all look exactly alike. Only on Corellia the houses are deep blue / purple, and on Tatooine they are desert yellow.

Yes, eventually you should be able to build a house, with a store, and an NPC storekeeper to mind your store. Unfortunately, up until the latest patch, that had never worked. Like the bazaar. So there's this player driven economy, except you have no way to actually buy or sell something apart from running into a guy, and handing him your money. Star Wars the Medieval Barter Galaxies.

I'm sure that some of those bugs will be worked out, although I am absolutely convinced that until Sony decides to stop being such cheap fuckers, and actually spends money on DECENT HARDWARE for their database server(s), the bazaar will never work. It just lags out and crashes, no matter what they do to it.
Note to Sony : A Xeon 800mhz processor simply can't handle several thousand threads worth of SQL processing. Really, spend some money.

So yes, eventually the game will work this stuff out, and then it will work, and it would be cool for people who like doing that kind of stuff. But note, that this is exactly what I'm saying. RIGHT NOW this game isn't ready for release, and that post by the developers on how "blablabla it is not finished" and shit just makes me want to frigging puke. It's like they're saying "We know it sucks, but we need money. PLEASE PAY TO BETA-TEST. please?"

Another example of the incredible character classes. A dancer (or musician). You start off with 2 dances, basic and rythmic, and you have 8 flourishes. Sort of like special moves that look really cool (I will give them that, watching that ugly lizard do the kneebusters and ass-shake was a blast), and give some extra xp.
You type /startdance and your character will start dancing. After ten seconds you get 1 xp. After ten more seconds you get another xp. Every flourish you do gives you 3 xp. You get a dance after one level increase, but then the agony starts. Your expert level is 15.000xp away. That's 150.000 seconds of dancing folks... Ofcourse, you can just start dancing, and go sleep for 8 hours (essentially macro'ing), but the Devs don't want that, nosirree, we designed this shit to be fucking boring, SO YOU WILL BE BORED SOLDIER!
So they are planning on killing every connection that appears to be AFK for too long. Great huh? Have fun dancing.

One thing which I will admit is fun for awhile is grouping. If another dancer near you starts to dance the same dance you are, you will automatically group, and then when one does the flourish, the other one does so too, but mirrored and facing one another. This looks really cool the first time you see it. And the second. And maybe the third. And then you're like "3xp, only 149.997 left to go to my next dance!"

Does this about sum up the "fun" of the non combat classes?
Ofcourse, combat isn't a whole lot better, see mob, hit Tab to target it, hit ` to bring up radial menu, hit 1 to attack. Watch yourself get killed by a butterfly because you are crazy enough to think that with a blaster rifle you can actually kill something, then lie Incapped for 81 seconds while you wait for your stats to recharge, and you crawl back up. Make camp and heal for ten minutes. Try again. Get Incapped again, then realise that because of the stat bug, you've lost all your regenerative capabilities, and need to get actually killed and cloned to get them back. Or you could eat some food, which also restores some of those lost ability points, but even the Devs don't really understand WHY it does that...

I'm sure that in six months, with some actual CONTENT, the game might be fun, even though I don't really see any fundamental changes made to the basic gameplay, which is boring. See above. I'm hoping the space expansion might be good, but then again, it's just going to be tacked onto a game that wasn't designed for something like that anyways, so exactly how good it will be... The Devs will probably steal Eve's great "mining" idea...

Creston

Creston, this just proves that you've never played the beta.

Really? What do you want to know about the game? I started on Rori, fought some Tortons, Tusk Cats, Squalls etc for awhile until I reached expert rifle and expert unarmed brawler, then decided I needed to go elsewhere, since I wasn't getting xp above 800 per kill. Took the shuttle to Naboo, then on to Endor. Despite my frequent posts on the forums for the developers to STOP the xp abuse that was going on there, it was the only place to get xp. Ran about twenty hunting groups there, you might have even seen me in one. Ugly Trandoshan with absolutely shitty clothing, called Rixixuss Izzcalit. Eventually when I came to Endor, people immediately starting asking me if I was starting a group. After finally managing to kill an Ewok Battlelord (which rapes a group of 20 players like they're nothing), got bored with Endor, went to Lok for awhile, which is a totally dead planet, has like ten players on it at any one time, hunted there for a bit, then went to Dathomir and got ganked by a Rancor. And then I figured I had about seen it all, plus the "this is how it's going to be, so shut the fuck up" posts from the devs started coming up, and the forum got wiped so any and all pertinent questions would be forever silenced.

Want to come tell me again that I didn't play the Beta, genius?

Creston

Edit : I'm going to rant a bit more about the Trandoshan. When I first started following SWG, Gabe (of Penny Arcade) talked to one of the Devs during E3 2002, and asked him if Trandoshans would regenerate like they do in the real Star Wars setting. So would they regenerate limbs and such. The answer was an unequivocal YES!

Cool I thought, let's play a Trandoshan, I want to see that in action.
Yeah. Regenerate is now a stat boost, and it works for a whole minute. Also, it doesn't actually boost any stats, it just says it does. And you can use it about once every hour or so. But then, since the character models have no kind of damage tracking / whatever you want to call it in them, I guess limbs falling off would be kind of hard.
Must suck for those who finally get to wield a buggy lightsaber in a year. My advice : get Jedi Academy.


Late Edit : Nim is not the name of the planet, it's Lok, the only city on it is Nim's Stronghold. Kinda goofed up there. Then again, I doubt I'll hear # 114 again.

This comment was edited on Jun 20, 04:07.

I dont see alot of pics of the player built structures. I've got a whole mining operation going on all over Talus. As well as I just finished building a manufacturing factory. Basically the game is everything they said it would be, minus one of the better parts - Vehicles. You can do just about everything but build a vehicle. I does get annoying running from Mineral Extractor to Power Plant to MT the hoppers of their contents (which has to be done manually) but for those pressed for time, there is a shuttle service (like in any MMORPG) which takes you around to the main cities. Its the first game (other than Sim City) where you can build your own city and buildings. You can do the same with shadowbane and DAOC but not to this level and detail. I mean you can furnish it (building the furniture of course) and you can customize it in any way. Although one fall back is the buildings are a set blueprints, but you do get little choice in what the layout is. When I first started to play the game, I was like WTF Shit is this? Doesnt play like an action game. Then I started crafting items. And that sucked me in. Now Im creating the beginnings of a city. That was the icing on the cake for me. A Complete player run economy.

Oh and disregard my last post, that was just my stupid ass brother using my name because he was too lazy to log in his. Bastard.

damn double post
This comment was edited on Jun 20, 01:00.

http://swvault.ign.com/articles/424/424964p1.html

...for those who care.

NDA's down now, ladies. Let me hear why it's such a great game. Not that I haven't already heard it and rebuffed them on the beta boards... but I'm in the mood for some more action.

And to anyone complaining about the price: yes, 15$ is a bit steep -- but monthly fees with any MMO are a given. If you're not willing to pay a monthly fee... then don't even bother considering any MMOs. Yes, I feel 15$ is a bit too steep; but it's only one reason out of practically hundreds that I won't get this game. Price, combined with Single Character Servers, combined with seriously the most boring and uninteresting combat and advancement system I've ever played, combined with a plethora of bugs, combined with the shitty shitty way the Dynamic Spawning system turned out, combined with the annoyance and frustration that embodies crafting, combined with totally unbalanced combat, combined with (repeat ad nauseum).

As I've said before: SWG is a great game... until you're done creating your character. It can be a simply beautiful game to look at, but it has 0 in terms of substance. It's The Sims Online, but in a half-hearted Star Wars setting.

This game is one step forward -- and 5 steps back. If possible, this is a buggier and less stable game than UO was at launch. Rather than maturing along with the market, and coming out with a game that's stable and fun, they're coming out with a game that makes me yearn for old days of UO. And that's disappointing, especially after the very stable launch DAoC had. Most people thought it was a turning point for MMO games -- but it's a shame that the trend didn't continue.

It's not worth my money; and it's not worth yours. Don't buy it, hoping it will get better -- I've played MMO's, and it's just not worth the frustration and added cost. Wait 6 months; wait a year. If it's still around, and they've actually made it enjoyable to play... then buy it. Don't buy it in anticipation of something it "might" be.

Here's the front page at gonegold.com today:

Anytime a publisher suddenly announces that a game is going to ship just before the end of a financial quarter, the sirens go off in my head. No gold announcement, no expectation that this game was going to make the second quarter, and it gets pulled in?

It also appears that even with the game shipping in eight days, the non-disclosure agreement for the beta testers is still in effect. Normally, you want your beta testers talking about the game as much as possible once the game goes gold. That's another oddity.

Here's a guess. This is going to be an ugly launch. This game is so highly anticipated, though, that I'm not sure anyone will care. Just give me my lightsaber. May the patch be with you!

Though Rich LaPorte's health seems to be failing, GoneGold is still a really important site. They have great radar for bad games, both the staff and the folks on forums. They're really oooold, many of them got started gaming with unix mainframes or Infocom. Kept me from blowing 40 bucks on Ultima: Ascension, which was hard to do given that Richard Garriott and I go back all the way to 1983.

Listen to your elders.

Think SOE and the game's designers learned their lessons from the EQ and UO launches? They learned they can make millions despite releasing unfinished product.

Think George Lucas, who enthralled you as a child, won't betray you? Go to Blockbuster and rent The Phantom Menace.

Watch Mikey yell "yippee" as he blows up robots, and ask yourself whether you trust this man enough to give him fifty more dollars of your hard-earned money, just so you can snag the name "Hans Solo" on a server that won't be fit for play for at least two more months.

Hell, wait two weeks for the reviews, so you can at least see what gamespot thinks. If the posters on this board are full of it, SOE will still be opening servers to meet the crush of demand and you can name your Wookiee Chewterbacky on one of the new ones.

I firmly believe that many people buy these games at launch simply hoping that they can snag a cool name like "Black" or "Death" at launch in case the game turns out to be great.

And I say that as someone who snagged both those names at launch in Dark Age of Camelot, which thankfully did turn out to be a good game. But I was a fool to do it.

"And yes, I think its obvious that upkeep justifies the monthly fee to an extent, but 15 bucks? Somebody has been eating retard sandwiches."

I don't think anyone really believes that the 15 bucks is solely for upkeep. I mean come on they are in this to make a profit too. You can call them greedy but thats capitalism for you.

And although it is higher than most other MMORPGs on the market right now $15 isn't a huge sum of money. I see people acting like spending $15 a month is gonna seriously change their standard of living or something.

If you are a casual gamer (I'm not even mentioning the hardcore ones that play 18 hrs a day) that plays the game 5 hours total a week, which isn't much at all, then thats 20 hours of entertainment for $15. Sorry but I cant seem to think of anything else I do that costs so little. Pool halls charge at least $5/hr, Movies are $8 for a 2 hr ticket, amusement parks like disneyland are $40 for 12 hours...I could go on but I won't. Hell I spent like 30 bucks yesterday to sit at a bar where my friend's band was playing for an hour and drink a couple coronas.

Now this argument is only valid assuming the game entertains you...becuase if it doesn't then why the hell would you be paying anything for it =P

Paul = troll.

"Yea but PS2 games you can play with a friend at the same console. I don't understand why all of a sudden it is okay for a monthly fee to play a game. Don't tell me bc Lucas said so"

It's not because Lucas said so. If anything I would say its because EA said so when they made UO which (I believe) was the first MMORPG that was pay to play per month. (I could be wrong about this if u want to flame but I KNOW it wasn't george lucas that set this precedent)

I also dont understand what you mean when you say "all of a sudden" since MMORPGs have been charging monthly for years now.

Now I dunno about you guys but most single player games I buy for $50 entertain me for at most 20 hours....and thats a long time. Most PS2 games I rent I can beat the game in less than that and after you beat it theres not much of a point in playing it. I rent PS2 games for $6 for a 1 week rental at the blockbuster near my house which is a hella lot better than paying $40-$50 per game only to beat it in less than a week. So $6 per week, 4 weeks per month = $24 a month. $15 a month sounds better to me and most MMORPGs keep me hooked for at least a couple months, sometimes years.

Now there are exceptions. CS kept me entertained for a long time for free but then it got overrun with hackers and since your not paying for anyone to regulate that no one really did and it killed the game for me. Warcraft III and SC were fun for a long time and those were also free. And most sports PS2 games I buy like NBA street vol. 2 last a while since I can always play against my friends when they come over. But again those are exceptions, most console and single player games get finished or just boring within 10-20 hrs, RPGs like FFX lasting a little longer.

Reply to 144.

Bruce, You're so right

AC2 Sure sucked.. di'nit.. SWG will suck too! =)

The $50 game sales are typically to recoup development costs, then the monthly charges go more towards server maintenence/etc...

That's why prices on mmo games drop heavily after a month or so, after the initial cash flow is over they're really more interested in subscribers, not boxed sales

Can anyone tell me if there are any good attributes to this game? Is it fun to play at any level?

Sorry Im posting so much, but its a slow day at work.

Yes, some good points to this game.

1. Interface. Simply the best interface of any MMORPG. You can customize a TON.

2. Graphics. If you have played anything like AO you get sick of the lame player graphics, the cloths, armor, whatever have no "depth". Its just a difrent skin put on the same model. In SWG The graphics are well done, a little bland but otherwise nice. For instance the collar on a armor chest peice protrudes with your neck sunk into it, like it would really look.

3. Chat. Personally I like the "word bubbles". It keeps your attention on the screen and away form the chat log. It ties who is saying what so if someone is acting like an idiot on chat you dont have to look up and try to match the name to see who the hell it is.

4. Skill based. This can be argued either way, but I prefer having a Skill based system vs a level based one. A prefrence left over from the old UO days I guess. There is no "level 10 brawler" it's just a brawler.

As far as fun? well I was hoping for alot more on release, but we will have to see. Personally when I played I did alot of running around to missions, and there was very little "action" to be had. So for me, it was no fun.

I would personally like to say good job to the developers working 16 hour days to get this damn game done.

16 hours a day and this is all they have to offer... the state the beta is in now is what I would expect a game to be in mid-beta at the latest.

Sony exec's on the other hand can lick a fat one!

Actually I've heard SOE OK'd another month of development, and that it was LucasArts that wants the game out now.

The point is when you pay a monthly fee for a MMORPG, you are paying for an ongoing service much like paying for cable TV. Whether or not you deem that service worthy of your money is a decision that you have to make.

There you go, "to the point" statment w/o all the dreamt up numbers. Thank you

And yes, I think its obvious that upkeep justifies the monthly fee to an extent, but 15 bucks? Somebody has been eating retard sandwiches.

Can anyone tell me if there are any good attributes to this game? Is it fun to play at any level?

The point is when you pay a monthly fee for a MMORPG, you are paying for an ongoing service much like paying for cable TV. Whether or not you deem that service worthy of your money is a decision that you have to make.