Agreed... France and the other countries will help the USA fight Iraq when the biological weapons come into play.

"Oh, shoot, I guess he was actually lying. Sorry."

Well said, Karrillion. However, I would also like to extend just a little on your first point of 'mass destructive weapons'.
1) The first gulf war was initiated after Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd, 1990. Forty-six years after the beginning of WWII, the world has learned that appeasement is bullcrap. When the world appeased the hostility of Germany, they were able to grab valuable footholds in Europe. After the invasion of Poland, however, they decided enough is enough. A very similar thing happened to spark the Gulf War. On November 29th of 1990, The UN security council authorized all means necessary to remove the Iraqi troops from Kuwait. After Kuwait was liberated of Iraqi presence, a ceasefire was issued.
"The U.N. cease-fire resolution commands Iraq to 'unconditionally' rid itself of weapons of mass destruction and submit to inspectors. Baghdad accepted the agreement in 1991 as a condition for a cease-fire."
But for years on end he rejected U.N. weapon inspectors. Proving in the past that they have a hostile nature, the U.S. has decided that enough time has passed that they could pose a serious threat, and decided to solve the matter by force. And for those who claim Iraq doesn't have such weapons- 2 scud missiles fired toward Kuwait have been shot down. The scud missiles Iraq doesn't have.

____________________
I am the uber troll.

1) Why is it not an issue that the US has weapons of mass destruction? Or China? Or Russia? Or the UK? Or Germany? Is Bush going to wade in and disarm all those countries too?

Well actually it is an issue, and in fact that's what keeps other countries from wading in and trying to take them away. Once a country has nuclear weapons, then it's the perfect blackmail tool to keep unwanted visitors out. Obviously some regimes are considered more responsible than others at their ability to guard these secrets and keep them from the hands of terrorists. North Korea is a perfect example of a nation that is desperate for money and would sell weapons like this to anyone for the right price should they manage to get nukes (if they don't have them already).

Basically Nuclear weapons are tools used to keep regimes in power, whether they be the USA or North Korea or Pakistan. It makes it too risky for another nation to risk trying to go in using force because they risk nuclear retaliation.

Personally, I'd rather North Korea, Iraq, Iran, etc. not be allowed to get their hands on nukes because once they have them, then there's no telling what will happen. I can't guarantee that the US or Britain or India, or any other nation with nukes won't allow these to get into bad hands, but I certainly don't want them to propogate to other nations that most of the world consider unreliable.

Because, should a terrorist organization, i.e. an organization with no recognized state get their hands on something like that, they can use it with little or no fear of reprisal since they really have no home country, and then pick up roots and go hide somewhere. At least the US is trying to hold terrorists responsible, but as anyone can see, it's a very difficult process.

2) Why is it not an issue that the US has funded terrorist activity in the past?

This is a big issue. The US funded terrorists in Afganistan to defeat the Soviets, and the US supported Sadaam in his war against Iran as well. Every time this has happened, the "dog" has ended up biting the master on the hand and running away. Osama and Sadaam both got their starts from the US. I think we've learned from these mistakes. Regime change cannot be achieved simply by giving weapons to questionable groups. Rather, it is our responsibility to go in and take care of business ourselves and then spend the necessary money to do things right if it is at all possible. It IS possible. Japan and Germany are perfect examples. Japan and Germany already had excellent human resources on hand, plus very high opinions of themselves (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) so rebuilding was very successful except in places where the Soviet Union had control and generally made a mess of things.

I'm hoping that we take lessons learned and can do this right. Funding resistance groups on a low level can be useful, but for large-scale operations the US and the other responsible nations of the world MUST get their hands dirty in order to effect any sort of meaningful change. WWII is the best example of this, and Vietnam is perhaps the worst.

This comment was edited on Mar 21, 13:11.

I'm sure Iraq is running scared now that powerhouse countries like Ethiopia and Marshall Islands are helping us out.

Israel is supporting us (actually they are telling us what to do) and they have had their own troops in Western Iraq for more than a month. I wonder why the US left them off the list.

http://www.whatreallyhappened.com

To those who feel the United States has isolated itself from the rest of the world regarding the war in Iraq, the following lists those nations who have agreed to publicly support the US in its decision:

Afghanistan
Albania
Angola
Australia
Azerbaijan
Bulgaria
Colombia
Czech Republic
Denmark
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
Eritrea
Estonia
Ethiopia
Honduras
Hungary
Iceland
Italy
Japan
Kuwait
South Korea
Latvia
Lithuania
Macedonia
Marshall Islands
Micronesia
Mongolia
Netherlands
Nicaragua
Philippines
Poland
Portugal
Romania
Rwanda
Singapore
Slovakia
Solomon Islands
Spain
Turkey
Uganda
United Kingdom
Uzbekistan

WOOT! I guess I boycott France every day and I didn't even know it!

Kickass.

> The Dude is not in. Leave a message
> after the beep. It takes a minute.

Hehe Skulk, that was a nice one.

Big Lebowski, the movie is one of my favorites

1) Why is it not an issue that the US has weapons of mass destruction? Or China? Or Russia? Or the UK? Or Germany? Is Bush going to wade in and disarm all those countries too?

2) Why is it not an issue that the US has funded terrorist activity in the past?

Answer me those questions with sensible arguments and explain to me how the war can be justified.

The Dude is not in. Leave a message after the beep. It takes a minute.

If blue wants to get the thread counts up he should just post blank spaces more often, this one went from 0 to #1 on the list in a day

-DSR

How can a topic about nothing go OFF topic?

This comment was edited on Oct 19, 2024, 05:55.

to #84 KaRRiLLioN:

Good answer - and I agree with you - if you think about it - we all do that - intervene - because I guess it is human nature to do so. If we didn't, we'd still be like the animals - but we learned to talk....

So nothing really matters.

Don't you just love literary masturbation?

I will simply sit back, and enjoy watching this whole thing unfold.

A couple of more edits and maybe that post will start to make sense

Is it just me or has this post gone incredibly off topic. I mean, it was just a blank space. Oh, and by the way, your opinions don't matter. The US isn't a democracy. It's a republic. And the war's gonna happen NO MATTER WHAT because George Bush is an asshole.

So nothing really matters.

--------------------------------------------------
Bunko
TI-83+ Graphing Calculator, 64k Memory, 1" Display
Not good for ninja fights.

I wish you and your family the best, Ray.

well hey, im English and im for the war, because quite simply at the end of the day i dont want to get nuked or gassed or whatever.

however France, as per usual has really pissed me off with their position. people wonder why they hate the US (and Britain): http://slate.msn.com/id/2077874/

and really they arnt that good: http://www.tamba2.org.uk/French/spit.html

but despite the proof i know some of u feel frustrated by the french, and maybe you want to voice you opinion? well why not voice your opinion by boycotting the following?

Air France
Air Liquide
Airbus
Alcatel - Based in Paris France
Allegra (Allergy Medication) - Produced by Aventis Pharmaceuticals based in
Strasbourg, France
Aqualung (Including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers, and SeaQuest)
AXA Advisors
Bank of the West - Owned by BNP Paribas
Beneteau (boats)
BF Goodrich - Owned by Michelin
BIC (Razors, Pens & Lighters) - Started in 1945 by Marcel Bich. Originally based just outside of Paris. Began trading on the Paris Stock Exchange in 1972. 40.5% Publicly traded. Bich family still owns 33.5%. Biotherm (Cosmetics)
Black Bush
Bollinger (Champagne)
Car & Driver Magazine
Cartier
Chanel
Chivas Regal (Scotch)
Christian Dior
Club Med (Vacations) - Owned in part by Paris based CDC (Caisse des Dépôts et Consignations)
Culligan (owned by Vivendi)
Dannon (Yogurt & Dairy Foods)
DKNY - LVMH acquired 100% of Gabrielle Studio Inc., the privately owned licenser of Donna Karan trademarks back in 2001.
Dom Perignon
Durand Crystal
Elle Magazine
Essilor Optical Products
Evian
Fina Gas Stations
Fina Oil - Billions invested in Iraqi Oil fields
First Hawaiian Bank
George Magazine
Givenchy
Hennessy
Houghton Mifflin (books)
International Herald Tribune - 181 ave Charles-de-Gaulle - F-92521 Neuilly -
FRSource:World Business Council for Sustainable Development '00 [Domain
Registration], [Corporate Profile]
Jacobs Creek - Owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989 Jameson (wiskey)
Jerry Springer (talk show)
Krups (coffee and cappaccino makers)
Lancome
Le Creuset (Cookware)
L'Oreal (Health & Beauty Products)
Louis Vuitton
Marie Claire
Martel Cognac
Maybelline
Méphisto (Footwear & Apparel)
Michelin (Tires & Auto Parts) - Their phone number is: (33) 1 45 66 15 53 in France
Mikasa Crystal and Glass (purchased by ARC int'l in 2001)
Moet (Champagne)
Motel 6 - 33, Avenue du Maine- 75755 Paris Cedex 15 France
Motown Records
MP3.com
Mumms (Champagne)
Nissan (Cars) - Majority owned by Renault
Nivea
Normany Butter
Parents Magazine
Peugeot (Automobiles) - Pronounced "Pooh Joe", must be French
Pierre Cardin
Playstation Magazine
ProScan - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France
Publicis Group (Including: Saatchi & Saatchi Advertising)
RCA (televisions & electronics) - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France
Red Magazine
Red Roof Inns - Owned by the Accor group based in France
Renault (Automobiles)
Road & Track Magazine
Roquefort Cheese - All Roquefort cheese is made in France
Rowenta (Toasters, Irons, Coffee makers, etc)
Royal Canadian
Salomon (Skis)
Seagram's Gin
Sierra Software and Computer Games
Smart & Final
Sofitel (Hotels) - Owned by the Accor group based in France
Sparkletts (Water) - Owned by Danone, based in France
Spencer Gifts
Sundance Channel
Taylor Made (Golf)
Technicolor
T-Fal (Kitchenware)
The Glenlivet (Scotch)
Total Gas Stations
UbiSoft (Computer Games)
Uniroyal
Uniroyal Tires - Owned by Michelin
Universal Studios (Music, Movies & Theme Parks) - Universal Studios is owned
by Vivendi-Universal, headquartered in Paris France
USFilter
Veritas Group
Veuve Clicquot Champagne
Vittel
Vivendi - Vivendi Headquarters, Paris France
Wild Turkey (bourbon)
Woman's Day Magazine
Yoplait - France-based Sodiaal owns a 50% stake of Yoplait
Yves Saint Laurent
Zodiac Inflatable Boats


enjoy,..



http://www.poorintern.com
- The Voices In My Fruit Loops Tell Me I'm Special -

The United States interfered with the affairs of certain groups that are hundreds of years old. Since the United States interfered, these groups have since grown to hate them. These groups (known to you as terrorists) were therefore not taught to hate the United States. Your logic is flawed when you assume.

This comment was edited on Mar 20, 22:10.

Well, we made it a good bit before the irrational finger pointing discussion took over. Not too shabby if you ask me.

A agree. I planned on not even reading this thread thinking it would just be a name-calling pissing match, but for the most part the arguments were well thought out and stated (another victory for not allowing anonymous posting).

Personally, my opinions will be based on what happens after the war is done - as in what we find, what we do, and if we leave the country better off than it is now. Right now I'm hopeful that time will tell that we are doing the right thing. If we go in and find no WMD... well, that would be bad. It's weird to now be rooting for Saddam to have these weapons so we can show the world, "See! See! Told ya so.".

-----------------------------------------
Of course I could be wrong... but really, what are the chances of that happening twice?