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412 Replies. 21 pages. Viewing page 16.
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112. Re: Questions... Mar 21, 2003, 15:21 aguita
Agreed... France and the other countries will help the USA fight Iraq when the biological weapons come into play.

"Oh, shoot, I guess he was actually lying. Sorry."

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111. Re: Questions... Mar 21, 2003, 13:51 Trinitrotoluene
Well said, Karrillion. However, I would also like to extend just a little on your first point of 'mass destructive weapons'.
1) The first gulf war was initiated after Iraq invaded Kuwait on August 2nd, 1990. Forty-six years after the beginning of WWII, the world has learned that appeasement is bullcrap. When the world appeased the hostility of Germany, they were able to grab valuable footholds in Europe. After the invasion of Poland, however, they decided enough is enough. A very similar thing happened to spark the Gulf War. On November 29th of 1990, The UN security council authorized all means necessary to remove the Iraqi troops from Kuwait. After Kuwait was liberated of Iraqi presence, a ceasefire was issued.
"The U.N. cease-fire resolution commands Iraq to 'unconditionally' rid itself of weapons of mass destruction and submit to inspectors. Baghdad accepted the agreement in 1991 as a condition for a cease-fire."
But for years on end he rejected U.N. weapon inspectors. Proving in the past that they have a hostile nature, the U.S. has decided that enough time has passed that they could pose a serious threat, and decided to solve the matter by force. And for those who claim Iraq doesn't have such weapons- 2 scud missiles fired toward Kuwait have been shot down. The scud missiles Iraq doesn't have.

I am the uber troll.
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110. Re: Questions... Mar 21, 2003, 13:09 KaRRiLLioN
1) Why is it not an issue that the US has weapons of mass destruction? Or China? Or Russia? Or the UK? Or Germany? Is Bush going to wade in and disarm all those countries too?

Well actually it is an issue, and in fact that's what keeps other countries from wading in and trying to take them away. Once a country has nuclear weapons, then it's the perfect blackmail tool to keep unwanted visitors out. Obviously some regimes are considered more responsible than others at their ability to guard these secrets and keep them from the hands of terrorists. North Korea is a perfect example of a nation that is desperate for money and would sell weapons like this to anyone for the right price should they manage to get nukes (if they don't have them already).

Basically Nuclear weapons are tools used to keep regimes in power, whether they be the USA or North Korea or Pakistan. It makes it too risky for another nation to risk trying to go in using force because they risk nuclear retaliation.

Personally, I'd rather North Korea, Iraq, Iran, etc. not be allowed to get their hands on nukes because once they have them, then there's no telling what will happen. I can't guarantee that the US or Britain or India, or any other nation with nukes won't allow these to get into bad hands, but I certainly don't want them to propogate to other nations that most of the world consider unreliable.

Because, should a terrorist organization, i.e. an organization with no recognized state get their hands on something like that, they can use it with little or no fear of reprisal since they really have no home country, and then pick up roots and go hide somewhere. At least the US is trying to hold terrorists responsible, but as anyone can see, it's a very difficult process.

2) Why is it not an issue that the US has funded terrorist activity in the past?

This is a big issue. The US funded terrorists in Afganistan to defeat the Soviets, and the US supported Sadaam in his war against Iran as well. Every time this has happened, the "dog" has ended up biting the master on the hand and running away. Osama and Sadaam both got their starts from the US. I think we've learned from these mistakes. Regime change cannot be achieved simply by giving weapons to questionable groups. Rather, it is our responsibility to go in and take care of business ourselves and then spend the necessary money to do things right if it is at all possible. It IS possible. Japan and Germany are perfect examples. Japan and Germany already had excellent human resources on hand, plus very high opinions of themselves (which isn't necessarily a bad thing) so rebuilding was very successful except in places where the Soviet Union had control and generally made a mess of things.

I'm hoping that we take lessons learned and can do this right. Funding resistance groups on a low level can be useful, but for large-scale operations the US and the other responsible nations of the world MUST get their hands dirty in order to effect any sort of meaningful change. WWII is the best example of this, and Vietnam is perhaps the worst.

This comment was edited on Mar 21, 13:11.
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109. Re: We are not alone Mar 21, 2003, 12:28 babar
I'm sure Iraq is running scared now that powerhouse countries like Ethiopia and Marshall Islands are helping us out.

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108. Re: We are not alone Mar 21, 2003, 11:40 babar
Israel is supporting us (actually they are telling us what to do) and they have had their own troops in Western Iraq for more than a month. I wonder why the US left them off the list.

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107. We are not alone Mar 21, 2003, 10:47 JM
To those who feel the United States has isolated itself from the rest of the world regarding the war in Iraq, the following lists those nations who have agreed to publicly support the US in its decision:

Czech Republic
Dominican Republic
El Salvador
South Korea
Marshall Islands
Solomon Islands
United Kingdom

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106. Re: Canada's position, eh? Mar 21, 2003, 10:34 MyRealName
WOOT! I guess I boycott France every day and I didn't even know it!


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105. Re: Canada's position, eh? Mar 21, 2003, 07:57 DooM
> The Dude is not in. Leave a message
> after the beep. It takes a minute.

Hehe Skulk, that was a nice one.

Big Lebowski, the movie is one of my favorites

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104. Questions... Mar 21, 2003, 05:33 Von Helmet
1) Why is it not an issue that the US has weapons of mass destruction? Or China? Or Russia? Or the UK? Or Germany? Is Bush going to wade in and disarm all those countries too?

2) Why is it not an issue that the US has funded terrorist activity in the past?

Answer me those questions with sensible arguments and explain to me how the war can be justified.

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103. Re: Canada's position, eh? Mar 21, 2003, 04:01 Skulk
The Dude is not in. Leave a message after the beep. It takes a minute.

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102. No subject Mar 21, 2003, 02:31 Da Stylin' Rastan
If blue wants to get the thread counts up he should just post blank spaces more often, this one went from 0 to #1 on the list in a day


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101. Re: Hmmm... Mar 21, 2003, 00:15 Undead Scottsman
How can a topic about nothing go OFF topic?

Jeremy Dunn

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100. Re: Iraq... Mar 21, 2003, 00:11 Heretic_QPF
to #84 KaRRiLLioN:

Good answer - and I agree with you - if you think about it - we all do that - intervene - because I guess it is human nature to do so. If we didn't, we'd still be like the animals - but we learned to talk....

When the going gets tough...the tough get gibbed!
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99. Re: Hmmm... Mar 20, 2003, 23:50 pancreas
So nothing really matters.

Don't you just love literary masturbation?

I will simply sit back, and enjoy watching this whole thing unfold.
"Nothing livens up a robotic hymn of doom more than an amazing pair of jugs." - Brak
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98. Re: Canada's position, eh? Mar 20, 2003, 22:47 JM
A couple of more edits and maybe that post will start to make sense

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97. Hmmm... Mar 20, 2003, 22:26 Bunko
Is it just me or has this post gone incredibly off topic. I mean, it was just a blank space. Oh, and by the way, your opinions don't matter. The US isn't a democracy. It's a republic. And the war's gonna happen NO MATTER WHAT because George Bush is an asshole.

So nothing really matters.

TI-83+ Graphing Calculator, 64k Memory, 1" Display
Not good for ninja fights.
There was only one catch and that was Catch-22
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96. Re: A simple question. Mar 20, 2003, 22:15 nin
I wish you and your family the best, Ray.
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95. Some will use this Mar 20, 2003, 22:13 The Truth
well hey, im English and im for the war, because quite simply at the end of the day i dont want to get nuked or gassed or whatever.

however France, as per usual has really pissed me off with their position. people wonder why they hate the US (and Britain):

and really they arnt that good:

but despite the proof i know some of u feel frustrated by the french, and maybe you want to voice you opinion? well why not voice your opinion by boycotting the following?

Air France
Air Liquide
Alcatel - Based in Paris France
Allegra (Allergy Medication) - Produced by Aventis Pharmaceuticals based in
Strasbourg, France
Aqualung (Including: Spirotechnique, Technisub, US Divers, and SeaQuest)
AXA Advisors
Bank of the West - Owned by BNP Paribas
Beneteau (boats)
BF Goodrich - Owned by Michelin
BIC (Razors, Pens & Lighters) - Started in 1945 by Marcel Bich. Originally based just outside of Paris. Began trading on the Paris Stock Exchange in 1972. 40.5% Publicly traded. Bich family still owns 33.5%. Biotherm (Cosmetics)
Black Bush
Bollinger (Champagne)
Car & Driver Magazine
Chivas Regal (Scotch)
Christian Dior
Club Med (Vacations) - Owned in part by Paris based CDC (Caisse des Dépôts et Consignations)
Culligan (owned by Vivendi)
Dannon (Yogurt & Dairy Foods)
DKNY - LVMH acquired 100% of Gabrielle Studio Inc., the privately owned licenser of Donna Karan trademarks back in 2001.
Dom Perignon
Durand Crystal
Elle Magazine
Essilor Optical Products
Fina Gas Stations
Fina Oil - Billions invested in Iraqi Oil fields
First Hawaiian Bank
George Magazine
Houghton Mifflin (books)
International Herald Tribune - 181 ave Charles-de-Gaulle - F-92521 Neuilly -
FRSource:World Business Council for Sustainable Development '00 [Domain
Registration], [Corporate Profile]
Jacobs Creek - Owned by Pernod Ricard since 1989 Jameson (wiskey)
Jerry Springer (talk show)
Krups (coffee and cappaccino makers)
Le Creuset (Cookware)
L'Oreal (Health & Beauty Products)
Louis Vuitton
Marie Claire
Martel Cognac
Méphisto (Footwear & Apparel)
Michelin (Tires & Auto Parts) - Their phone number is: (33) 1 45 66 15 53 in France
Mikasa Crystal and Glass (purchased by ARC int'l in 2001)
Moet (Champagne)
Motel 6 - 33, Avenue du Maine- 75755 Paris Cedex 15 France
Motown Records
Mumms (Champagne)
Nissan (Cars) - Majority owned by Renault
Normany Butter
Parents Magazine
Peugeot (Automobiles) - Pronounced "Pooh Joe", must be French
Pierre Cardin
Playstation Magazine
ProScan - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France
Publicis Group (Including: Saatchi & Saatchi Advertising)
RCA (televisions & electronics) - Owned by Thomson Electronics, France
Red Magazine
Red Roof Inns - Owned by the Accor group based in France
Renault (Automobiles)
Road & Track Magazine
Roquefort Cheese - All Roquefort cheese is made in France
Rowenta (Toasters, Irons, Coffee makers, etc)
Royal Canadian
Salomon (Skis)
Seagram's Gin
Sierra Software and Computer Games
Smart & Final
Sofitel (Hotels) - Owned by the Accor group based in France
Sparkletts (Water) - Owned by Danone, based in France
Spencer Gifts
Sundance Channel
Taylor Made (Golf)
T-Fal (Kitchenware)
The Glenlivet (Scotch)
Total Gas Stations
UbiSoft (Computer Games)
Uniroyal Tires - Owned by Michelin
Universal Studios (Music, Movies & Theme Parks) - Universal Studios is owned
by Vivendi-Universal, headquartered in Paris France
Veritas Group
Veuve Clicquot Champagne
Vivendi - Vivendi Headquarters, Paris France
Wild Turkey (bourbon)
Woman's Day Magazine
Yoplait - France-based Sodiaal owns a 50% stake of Yoplait
Yves Saint Laurent
Zodiac Inflatable Boats

- The Voices In My Fruit Loops Tell Me I'm Special -
Diablo & Diablo 2 for the DS, it makes sense Blizzard!
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94. Re: Canada's position, eh? Mar 20, 2003, 22:08 spyder11
The United States interfered with the affairs of certain groups that are hundreds of years old. Since the United States interfered, these groups have since grown to hate them. These groups (known to you as terrorists) were therefore not taught to hate the United States. Your logic is flawed when you assume.

This comment was edited on Mar 20, 22:10.
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93. Re: A simple question. Mar 20, 2003, 22:04 WarPig
Well, we made it a good bit before the irrational finger pointing discussion took over. Not too shabby if you ask me.

A agree. I planned on not even reading this thread thinking it would just be a name-calling pissing match, but for the most part the arguments were well thought out and stated (another victory for not allowing anonymous posting).

Personally, my opinions will be based on what happens after the war is done - as in what we find, what we do, and if we leave the country better off than it is now. Right now I'm hopeful that time will tell that we are doing the right thing. If we go in and find no WMD... well, that would be bad. It's weird to now be rooting for Saddam to have these weapons so we can show the world, "See! See! Told ya so.".

Of course I could be wrong... but really, what are the chances of that happening twice?
Avatar 1750

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412 Replies. 21 pages. Viewing page 16.
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