Out of the Blue

Bush Signs Anti-Telemarketing Bill (thanks eurodeseo|OSLT) has the good news that some relief from the scourge of telemarketing, as it will create a do-not-call list, with the punishment for calling listed people to be a fine of up to $11,000 for each violation. Of course, there's always a loophole, and the politicians were certainly not going to curtail their own ability to pester us, so: "Charities, surveys and calls on behalf of politicians would be exempt." I can only suspect the worst of this last part: 'Hi, I'm calling on behalf of the U.S. Congress to offer you a way to lower your mortgage rate.'

Link of the Day: Ted Turner Sends Self Back In Time To Prevent AOL Time Warner Merger. Thanks [PIT]SlayerAODsk.
Stories of the Day: French Fries Get New Name in Congress. Thanks Borzoi.
Groundhog Day: The Musical. Thanks loonyboi. "Tomorrow, tomorrow, I love you tomorrow, you're also always today."
HBO countersues 'Sopranos' star Gandolfini for $100M. Thanks David.
Weird Science: Gauging age by the smell of urine. Thanks [MP] Wolverine [MP].
Wild Science: Universe as Doughnut: New Data, New Debate (NY Times free registration required). Thanks Mark Siegel.
Media of the Day: Trunk Monkey. Thanks Ant.
Demo. Thanks [PIT]SlayerAODsk.
Beer Is Good For You? Thanks Homer.
Auction of the Day: Instant Girlfriend Kit! Thanks [PIT]SlayerAODsk.
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94 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 3.
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54.
 
Re: France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 21:37
54.
Re: France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 21:37
Mar 12, 2003, 21:37
 
you MORNIC FLAG WAVING IMBECILE
you stinking pig head jerk
you piece of shit
YOU FUCKING JERK
you DUMB FUCK
shit for brains
you stupid shit
jack asses like you

I am so glad people can express themselves in such a graceful manner. It really adds to your argument.

Golem
You're really stupid you duck fart

53.
 
demo.
Mar 12, 2003, 20:53
53.
demo. Mar 12, 2003, 20:53
Mar 12, 2003, 20:53
 
-100 points for them shamlessly copying Final Fantasy: TSW's DVD easter egg. Not funny.

52.
 
Re: France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 20:49
52.
Re: France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 20:49
Mar 12, 2003, 20:49
 
Being overweight doesn't make you evil, wrong, stupid, smelly, etc. Well maybe it does make you lazy, but in todays life stye excersize isn't very common. People no longer work on the farm all day ya know.
I just don't see why America would waste money on a war in order to lower gas prices. America already has high taxes and going to war isn't going to drop those taxes.

51.
 
Re: France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 20:22
51.
Re: France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 20:22
Mar 12, 2003, 20:22
 
Wow thats incoherent. What are you, Yoda?

The non-proliferation treaty was not a surrender it was simply a peace time treaty due to N. Koreas weak status... not a declaration of defeat you stinking pig head jerk.

OK, this PROVES you have absolutely no fucking idea what you are talking about you stupid dipshit. Do you know what the non-proliferation treaty is? You think THAT ended the Korean conflict? DAMN you are too stupid! HAHAHAHAHAHA!

Yes, you know what a DMZ is and I am happy for you, maybe you know SOMETHING shit-for-brains. Yes, it is a stalemate. Now, what the hell is your point here?

Yes, I know that Japan was looking for all kinds of resources. They were invading every freaking Asian country they could reach, and they were brutal bastards. Still, their war had NOTHING to do with the US. They were pissed because we would no longer sell them STEEL. Oil, as you pointed out already, they could get from neighboring nations. Steel on the other hand was cheap and plentiful from the USA, until we stopped selling it to them because they were attacking everyone with it.

Again I have to ask...what is your point you stupid asshole?

Now, idiot, the Kuwati government is THRILLED that the US is in their country still and they are THRILLED that we are going to get Saddaam. THEY still consider him a HUGE threat, in fact they consider it their BIGGEST and basically their ONLY threat. Who the hell told you that they asked us to leave? Wake up shithead.

OH and before I part.. "Chandra Levy and Gary Condant." As for this little girl you are speaking on and "Pellet Puppy" I have "NO!" idea what the hell you are referring to because I am making case on something that happened 1 and 1/2 years ago. SO once agian I have "NO IDEA?" what the fuck *YOU* are talking about.

So of course in classic complete asshole style you open your big mouth and say how stupid everyone else is even though *YOU* have "NO IDEA?" what the fuck *YOU* are talking about. Holy shit you are stupid.

I love it when jack asses like you surface and think you have such a well-rounded grap on society.. it's obvious you live through books of favorable brainwash and manipulation.. and haven't seen what's going on in the rest of the world.

Books are good...try one sometime JACKASS, you MIGHT learn something...well, maybe not you, Dud. Its obvious you have no idea whats going on in any way, shape, or form.

You're really stupid you duck fart.

No, dont call me a DUCK FART! WAHAHAAHAAAA

What a goob.

But, then again, theres no sense explaining reality to a Fucker that lives his Norman Rockwell lifestyle, is part of that 50% overweight populous and thinks grandma's apple pies will solve the worlds problems.

I LOVE morons like you that think they are some kind of Hannibal Lecter type that can tell everything about someone from their posts on a web page. GET A LIFE. There is NO Norman Rockwell life anymore anyplace bud, dont believe your anti-American propaganda machines. Overweight? Hmmm if 6'2 and 185 lbs is overweight than I am. And neither grandmother of mine has EVER made an apple pie...dont believe everything you read, you stupid ass clueless mommas boy.

Do yourself a favor, turn your TV off and your brain ON. Hmm...guess you would need to HAVE a brain for that, never mind, get back to your TV you little git.

This comment was edited on Mar 12, 20:29.
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50.
 
Hilarious
Mar 12, 2003, 20:01
50.
Hilarious Mar 12, 2003, 20:01
Mar 12, 2003, 20:01
 
I haven't read the thread yet, but after reading the first line of #48 I laughed so hard I almost fell out of my chair ...

There's no place like 127.0.0.1
49.
 
Why Saddam shouldn't
Mar 12, 2003, 19:59
49.
Why Saddam shouldn't Mar 12, 2003, 19:59
Mar 12, 2003, 19:59
 
Anyone should be able to answer why Saddam shouldn't have any weapons of mass destruction. Because he'll use them... infact he has.

10 years or so before the Gulf War there was this thing called the Iran-Iraq war. Iraq showed then they were capable of using chemical weapons in a wartime situation. Not only that, the wartime situation was INSTIGATED by Iraq. Iraq invaded Iran during a time of "relative" peace between the two countries.

Then 10 years after that, Iraq invades Kuwait. I seem to remember something about oil fields being set on fire and causing HORRIBLE ecological damage. Hmmmmm.

After the Gulf War, the UN came up with the resolution for him to disarm. Now 12 years after that, the US has stepped up and finally said "Hey, this guy has had 12 years to comply, and he hasn't". Infact statements from 1 year ago have shown that Saddam was openly lieing to the world community about the weapons they now say they DO have. And the only reason they are "complying" to ANY extent now, is because the threat of force looms over Saddam.

Yeah, this is a guy who should remain in power.

---------

As for France, I'm sure economics comes into play in their yellow streak, BUT the biggest thing is that France has a pretty high muslim population. While the majority obviously aren't extremists, they don't want to risk the chance of upsetting their large muslim population. They like to look at the problem as, MUSLIMS vs USA, and that it isn't their problem. Well, Saddam's past actions speak louder than words. If not for the US, trust me, other nations WOULD consider Saddam their problem.

He proclaimed on national tv that in the last election he won 100% of the people's vote. :-| How happy do you think most Iraqi's are with him in power? Do you seriously think they have the option of voicing their opinion of Saddam if their opinion is ANYTHING other than adoration?

Sorry, Saddam to me is the biggest frickin blemish on the human race at the moment. I gets emotional about the turd.

----

As for North Korea, how exactly is Kim a bleeding-heart liberal? I'm sure his friends and all the people directly beneath him receive preferential treatment. Infact, all the handpicked heads of the North Korean army are all friends of his. Sounds very humanitarian to me, I mean you would only stack the army so they are completely obediant to you if you were one of the greatest humanitarians on the planet. I'm sure the half of North Korea that are currently starving causes him to toss and turn ALL night.

I mean, it's obvious in how N. Korea is trying to escalate the situation by restarting more shut down facilities, test firing rockets into the ocean between them and Japan, that it's the best interests of EVERYONE that Kim is looking out for.

Kim's all about the bling-bling here people, he's trying to force the US into economic concessions at a time when the US is concerned with matters on the other side of the planet. He's a greedy little c_nt, plain and simple.

Beyond that, have you seen anything on NOrth Korean television lately? I have, because I'm living in SHanghai. You'd be surprised what the North Korean people are being told about the situation. How the US is escalating things, and so on and so forth.

The biggest problem I see with North Korea isn't that they'd actually use nukes against the US, they could only hit California. If they did attack, they'd hit Japan and S. Korea. But thats not in the cards. Hard to get rich that way if you are Kim. Nope, any weapons they develop will be going on the black market. Guess who's itching to get weapons of mass destruction?

I'll give you a hint. The majority of the world's muslims do NOT live in the Middle East. They live in South East Asia. The MAJORITY of extreme muslims are now in South East Asia (Malaysia, Phillipines, Indonesia, etc). Ready to guess yet?

-------------

As for the whole Islam vs US issue, I saw an interesting CNN feature. They covered the Hadj (not sure of spelling), a holy pilgramige in the Middle East. They asked some of the pilgrims questions about the possibility of war in Iraq and what they thought about it. The response I heard the most, and thought the most ludicrous was:

"If you attack 1 nation of Islam, you attack ALL of Islam"

That reasoning is SCARY.

Why?

Because it shows how fanatical some factions of Islam are about the US. Because when possed the question "Well, if the above is true, then if 1 Islamic nation funds and harbors terrorists who kill innocent people, is ALL of Islam to blame?" they most assuradely would answer NO.

Either you are a coheisive whole or not. The US isn't fighting ISLAM. The leaders who are fearful of being ousted want you to believe that... and the SCARY thing is, most people seem to believe their leaders. But then, when your leaders control all of the news media, what else are you expected to believe (remember in the Gulf War, the US dropped pamphlets and radios).

---

Either you use the balls you got, and stop evil men like Saddam from becoming bigger threats now, or you deal with the consequences. Bush and Blair aren't helping their careers by their current stances are they? I'm sure the French leader is as well as the German. Blair and Bush have the balls to stand up and say, listen the current method of enforcing the policy in Iraq isn't working, they've had 12 years, enough is enough. In this respect they are showing themselves to be men of courage. A trait I find lacking in ALOT of world leaders right now.

Ack... I'll keep ranting and raving and be late for work if I dont' quit.

Yes, French Fries - Freedom Fries is hilarious. Just like Hamburger to Salisbury Sandwich in WW2.

And poutine is a CANADIAN creation, not French. And most Canadians don't like the French either, especially those who call themselves CANADIAN but seem to think they deserve special treatment. I spit on BILINGUALITY.

I spit - haockputwoo

48.
 
Re: France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 19:51
48.
Re: France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 19:51
Mar 12, 2003, 19:51
 
Thank you for crawling from under your ROCK you MORNIC FLAG WAVING IMBECILE..

The non-proliferation treaty was not a surrender it was simply a peace time treaty due to N. Koreas weak status... not a declaration of defeat you stinking pig head jerk.

N Korea has always had the right to do anything they want. a treaty can be broken. look at what the US did to NA Indians you piece of shit if you want to speak on treaties.

the DMZ serves only one purpose in Korea.. to prevent either side from crossing into each others territory. A stalemate.

and now your proving your misguided bookread history and ignorance about Japans watan (AXIS sanctioned) occupation of asia and the neighboring continents YOU FUCKING JERK.. JAPAN was looking for oil you DUMB FUCK... for that matter any other minerals and metals it could garner. maybe you just haven't heard the latest news flash shit for brains. or omssion the US left out in the conflicts of that time

as for 1941.. so fucking what if I hit the "5" key instead of the "1" I have so much on my mind I'm not going to get every i dotted for your viewing pleasure.

As for Iraq.. I beleive any country is free to do what every it wants. As long as it doesn't attack another... Kuwait that's special circumstances. And when the US where invited they did not leave. Classic deal witht he devil


How about the Philippine Wars you stupid shit and the bullying of their resources? I'm tired of wannabe do gooders, stand up americans like you that blindly follow the pack. like you know what's good for the rest of the world and don't know anything...

OH and before I part.. "Chandra Levy and Gary Condant." As for this little girl you are speaking on and "Pellet Puppy" I have "NO!" idea what the hell you are referring to because I am making case on something that happened 1 and 1/2 years ago. SO once agian I have "NO IDEA?" what the fuck *YOU* are talking about.

I love it when jack asses like you surface and think you have such a well-rounded grap on society.. it's obvious you live through books of favorable brainwash and manipulation.. and haven't seen what's going on in the rest of the world.

My point about the US and who's worse. I feel neither. I imagine you can except all the dirty dealings the US has made to keep it's interested above others and caused other counties to suffer making deals with known dictators and murders. You're really stupid you duck fart.

But, then again, theres no sense explaining reality to a Fucker that lives his Norman Rockwell lifestyle, is part of that 50% overweight populous and thinks grandma's apple pies will solve the worlds problems.


This comment was edited on Mar 12, 19:57.
-The Dude-

Vic B.
47.
 
Burning
Mar 12, 2003, 19:21
47.
Burning Mar 12, 2003, 19:21
Mar 12, 2003, 19:21
 
Smokah the 3@|2 sez: "Only J00 can prevent Forum Fires."

"Only J00 can prevent Forum Fires"
-Smokah teh 3@|2
46.
 
Re: France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 18:51
46.
Re: France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 18:51
Mar 12, 2003, 18:51
 
Its obvious that you are a stoolie for the Iraq PR.

So tell me about the DMZ oh wise one, I would love to hear all about it since you bring it up I assume you have some point. Are you trying to say that the DMZ will stop the N Koreans? Yeah....okay.

Now a little lesson about North Korea, DIPSHIT...

North Korea has the right to develop any thing it wants. The US says: "if you are not at the same level of quote": "DEMOCRACY" as us you don't deserve it.. and there fore you are a rogue nation.

Actually, no they dont. See, they signed the non-proliferation treaty AND they agreed to stop all testing of nukes. We (the US) discovered they were lying and they admitted it. We stopped shipping them oil for free because they broke the treaty. Now they want money from us or they are going to cause everyone all kinds of problems.

YOU get your first clue...

Stupid ass.

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45.
 
CRAW to Dude
Mar 12, 2003, 18:44
45.
CRAW to Dude Mar 12, 2003, 18:44
Mar 12, 2003, 18:44
 
OK you moronic "know it all" dipshit...

1) EVERYONE wants control fo the oil! Or are you really that stupid as to think that its just the US...Creston is 100% correct.

2) Idiot, the US has always done 'business' with many countries with different opinions, cultures, etc. Please just dont say anything this stupid again, you lose whatever credibility you think you have.

and what the HELL are you talking about "Elizabeth Smart???"
now I know you're a total lacky fool.. that was Chandra Levy

"GEEEEEEEZ???????????"

this is why you are a poster child that represents the percentage of americans that don't know SHIT except what's the lastest tennis shoe on the market.. GET YOUR FACTS straight

Finished yet, DIPSHIT? Now, go to a television or a newspaper or the internet and see for your friggin self you moron. Then take that televison or newspaper or PC and shove it up your ass. If you are going to insult folks for not knowing anything, at least try to not look like a COMPLETE fool. Just try. For me, please?

and in closing as far as your misinfomation about japanese US peace talks back in 1945.. beleive or not my poor uninformed citizen..

the US tried to screw the japanese over on oil rights in SE Asia and that's when the shit hit the fan.. PARTNER

OK, PARTNER. Now first off, the Japanese launched a sneak attack during negotiations in NINETEEN FORTY ONE. History books....read one. As far as the US screwing Japan on oil rghts or whatever your little brain cooked up, you are VERY wrong. The Japanese were running RAMPANT in Asia and the US refused to sell them any more steel for their war efforts. THATS when they got pissy with us.

As far as the US being the only country to use atomic weapons....consider the alternative. Japan was NOT going to surrender, their leadership was telling its people that they were winning the war. The only other way that WW2 was going to end in the Pacific was invading Japan and that would have cost hundreds of thousands of Japanese civilian lives, Japanese military lives, and MOST IMPORTANT, American military lives. Some estimates were as high as 1 million....Dropping the bombs was absolutely the right thing to do. The Japanese and the Germans were desperately trying to get nukes to use them on the allies but we beat them to it.

You are a moron. You spew shit and you have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.

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44.
 
Re: France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 18:32
44.
Re: France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 18:32
Mar 12, 2003, 18:32
 
OMFG as soon as I stop laughing at you I am going to write a post here for you Dude....

I am misinformed....YEAH. YOU know everything, RIGHT.

LOL

This comment was edited on Mar 12, 18:33.
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43.
 
Re: Dude to CRAW
Mar 12, 2003, 18:28
43.
Re: Dude to CRAW Mar 12, 2003, 18:28
Mar 12, 2003, 18:28
 
"and what the HELL are you talking about "Elizabeth Smart???"
now I know you're a total lacky fool.. that was Chandra Levy

"GEEEEEEEZ???????????"

this is why you are a poster child that represents the percentage of americans that don't know SHIT except what's the lastest tennis shoe on the market.. GET YOUR FACTS straight
"


Click on the link he provided (or this one http://reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=N2GNOVQ0PMUPACRBAEOCFFA?type=topNews&storyID=2371380) before you start shouting at someone to get his "facts straight" and babbling about how all American are stupid, dimwitted imbecile.

He wasn't talking about Chandra Levy, she is still missing. He was talking about Elizabeth Smart. You probably never heard of her, did you?

Creston

And edit 2 : "I'll give you your first clue... South Korea was never defeated... they have and always were in alliance with Russia and China"

SOUTH Korea was in alliance with Russia and China? Can someone please explain to me where the FUCK this ignorant troll came from?
I'm not trying to SELL the war you maggot, I'm merely providing an insight into a possible explanation of the "why's" behind the current political going ons. The only thing you provide is a bunch of shouting, trolling, cursing and quite frankly, showing off what a stupid ignorant fuck you are.

I don't know what goes on in France or Germany? I lived in BOTH countries, I also lived in the UK, and in Holland (combined total of 30 years), now I happen to live in the US. I probably know BETTER what goes on in any of those countries than you do.
And as for the DMZ, and the South Korean, North Korean border, yes, I actually do know a little bit about it, as I've actually been there. Quite chilling really. I still have some pictures from it.

But hey, keep on spouting how people need to get their facts straight while fucking up your own, we always need a little light amusement from trolls in heavy threads like these, and since fredrickson seems to be absent, I guess you'll do.

Creston

This comment was edited on Mar 12, 18:36.
Avatar 15604
42.
 
Re: to Craw
Mar 12, 2003, 18:28
42.
Re: to Craw Mar 12, 2003, 18:28
Mar 12, 2003, 18:28
 
If war is the way to enforce UN resolutions why does the western alliance not age war on Israel?

Hmmm....you do know how Israel came into being, dont you? The UN created Israel, its their screw up so OF COURSE they arent going to clean it up.

Of course since you aren't sticking your head in the sand on international issues you will have been calling for an end to the 6 billion dollars a year funds flow to Israel from the US.

First, I dont have to care about every international issue. And I dont. Personally, I dont give two squats about Israel or Palestine. However, if you are going to change the subject get the facts straight...the US government gives 2 Billion a year to Israel, any other money (the remaining 4 billion) comes from private sources inside the US.

In return we get our only real ally in the Middle East. Kind of a steep price if you ask me...

Besides, this is a MUCH more deeply rooted issue going back almost a thousand years...The Israelis claim that its their land that was forcefully taken from them, and they arent wrong. As far as the whole West Bank and Gaza Strip, if the Arabs hadnt invaded Israel those lands would still be in Arab hands now. They lost those lands fair and square.

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41.
 
Re: France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 18:25
41.
Re: France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 18:25
Mar 12, 2003, 18:25
 
Crestin I will shorten it for you dude...

It's obvious you are another sucker for the war sell. you don't know anything about France's intensions Germany, Russia nor China ..

and your fear of North Korea is absolutely stupid and ignorant. maybe if you knew a little more about a buffer zone or DMZ you stupid ass wouldn't be spouting off like you are.. DAMN IDIOTS STEPPING UP to the soap box now.

I'll give you your first clue... South Korea was never defeated... they have and always were in alliance with Russia and China. North Korea has the right to develop any thing it wants. The US says: "if you are not at the same level of quote": "DEMOCRACY" as us you don't deserve it.. and there fore you are a rogue nation.

sounds a little chilling to me.

This comment was edited on Mar 12, 18:28.
-The Dude-

Vic B.
40.
 
Freedom
Mar 12, 2003, 18:17
40.
Freedom Mar 12, 2003, 18:17
Mar 12, 2003, 18:17
 
I started to read this thread but gave up mid-way. It's sad how much prejudice and agression there is in these posts.

It is pretty simple: wether you respect freedom of opinion or not can only be shown when opinions are different. It seems that we have reached a point where that is the case. Now read this thread... Alanis would be proud.

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39.
 
Re: Dude to CRAW
Mar 12, 2003, 18:12
39.
Re: Dude to CRAW Mar 12, 2003, 18:12
Mar 12, 2003, 18:12
 
Well Pellet Puppy,

You just stepped in the arena too. You poor un-informed sheep.

1) The US and England want control of the oil because Iraq has *THE* second largest oil reserves in the world.

2) because of sanctions, Iraq bars the US from access to it's meaniful oil. But, Russian, China, France and other semi-tolerant countries are smarter than the apes running around in the US... just because someone doesn't live the way you do doesn't mean you still can't do business. "Hell!" The chinese eat with chopsticks and most muslim countries use their right hand!" but you know what? business is business


Bush by way of using the US Military as the agent is impossing a hostile takover of what it does not have access to. and we all know what the US wants. It gets..

Naom Chomsky paraphrased it best: "word to the world... get out of my way"

and what the HELL are you talking about "Elizabeth Smart???"
now I know you're a total lacky fool.. that was Chandra Levy

"GEEEEEEEZ???????????"

this is why you are a poster child that represents the percentage of americans that don't know SHIT except what's the lastest tennis shoe on the market.. GET YOUR FACTS straight


and in closing as far as your misinfomation about japanese US peace talks back in 1945.. beleive or not my poor uninformed citizen..

the US tried to screw the japanese over on oil rights in SE Asia and that's when the shit hit the fan.. PARTNER

please get out of my face..


P.S. and my stance still remains.. the dominant country the US is it still remains the only to use atomic weapons on sovreign soil. And who do you think gave Iraq chemical/ biological weapons? Germany and the good ole US of A


This comment was edited on Mar 12, 18:26.
-The Dude-

Vic B.
38.
 
WoMD
Mar 12, 2003, 17:58
38.
WoMD Mar 12, 2003, 17:58
Mar 12, 2003, 17:58
 
Actually Anvil, the MOAB isn't a weapon of mass destruction. The legal definition of a WoMD reads:

"FY97 National Defense Authorization Act, Public Law 104-201, September 23, 1996

(1) The term "weapon of mass destruction" means any weapon or device that is intended, or has the capability, to cause death or serious bodily injury to a significant number of people through the release, dissemination, or impact of--
(A) toxic or poisonous chemicals or their precursors;
(B) a disease organism; or
(C) radiation or radioactivity."

The MOAB involves none of these things, and is in essence just a bigger Daisy Cutter, with a whole lot more 'Cutter' and a whole lot less 'Daisy.'

Edited to add:
Just as an additional point in general, the US isn't some big bully that just wants to be the only one with weapons of mass destruction. We have them, yes. Russia has them. China has them. Iraq, however, is a different matter. They are under treaty obligations not to build them, because Saddam has already proven that he has no qualms about using them. Basically a "if you can't play nice with your toys, you can't have them" sort of situation.

And am I the only one who thinks the obligatory bashing of Bush is getting a bit stale? It's become fashionable to "hate Bush," and calling him an "illiterate cokehead" is just plain foolish. So he isn't the most eloquent of public speakers, big frickin' deal. In person and on paper, however, he comes off as a much more intelligent person. I mean, face it, you don't get to be the leader of the free world without some measure of intelligence, regardless of who your father is.
This comment was edited on Mar 12, 18:10.
37.
 
France, Russia and the US
Mar 12, 2003, 17:46
37.
France, Russia and the US Mar 12, 2003, 17:46
Mar 12, 2003, 17:46
 
Ok, I see a lot of conjecture going on about why countries are doing what they are doing. Here's the skinny (imho).

France doesn't care a whit about Iraq. It also doesn't care very much about Iraq's oil. The ONLY reason France is currently going against the US is political opportunism. You see, the French government absolutely hates the fact that they no longer amount to anything worth considering in world politics. It really ruffles their feathers that there are even (a lot of) countries that are questioning why France is a permanent member of the security council anyways, since India, quite frankly, is much more deserving of that position (on the account of also having nukes, and of being about 7billion times larger and more populous than France is).

Furthermore, Russia is going to be joining the European Union soon. This scares France, for the very simple reason that France wants to be recognized as the leader of Europe. Germany also wants this, but France can claim a few minor upper hands on Germany (which is a very long political debate that I won't go into here). However, Russia is, ofcourse, even in its pathetic state, a VERY powerful country, and it's very likely that after a few years, Russia would assume a defacto position of leadership in the European Union.

So, France can either sit back and watch what little they have left (very very little) dwindle away into totally nothing, OR they can take action and try to puff up their image in the eyes of the rest of the world, and more importantly, Europe.

So, this whole Iraq deal is nothing more than political opportunism on France's part. Had the US been clamoring for a resolution against North Korea, France would have opposed that as well. It wants to show that it's not afraid of standing up against the lone remaining superpower, and that it can get its will done on a grand political scale. If it succeeds, this will ofcourse impress the rest of Europe (who are actually pretty easily impressed), and would pave the way for France leadership in the EU.

And, considering the fact that Chirac and Putin have been having a LOT of conversations lately, it wouldn't surprise me if they had already put a sharing power deal into place for later, once Russia joins. The UK ofcourse won't appreciate this very much, but since they're a bit of a "hanger-on" member, I don't think they'll have the clout necessary to stop this. Germany has apparently already accepted and relented to French leadership, since all I see Schroeder do is repeating what Chirac says. Nice to see a "leader" with some backbone...

Ofcourse, France tries to hide this fact by blabbling about how it's the "conscience of the UN" and other such drivel. I won't even bother taking up space here to debunk that theory, I think anyone who remembers nuclear tests in the Pacific, Albania, the Rainbow Warrior etc can see for themselves that whatever France has, it's not generally considered to be a conscience.

Now, as for Russia, this is very simple. For Russia it's the oil. Russia has many billions of dollars in contracts to exploit Iraq's oil fields, and it simply fears that once the US takes over, the US will simply deny it any oil.
If the Russians had some courage, however, they would actually just come out and say this. (much like the French).

China, simply enough, doesn't want the US to have a base of operations in such a strategic area as the Middle East, and it most definitely does not want the US to gain any strenght while it is building itself up to become the next superpower. (both militarily and economically).
China, however, is at least honest about this, as they have said this a few times already.

As for what the US wants out of this, this is a difficult one. A lot of people blindly bleat that this is all about oil. However, simple mathematics and logic would show that if this is indeed the reason, it's a very stupid one. Iraq, for all the oil it has, does not have ENOUGH oil to sate the US desire for it. The US uses / wastes 20 million barrels of oil a day (at 159 liters a barrel...). Iraq's output is roughly estimated at a maximum capacity of four million barrels, but presumably this output could be doubled or even tripled. However, it CANNOT be quintupled. There simply aren't enough oil fields for that, and you can only pump up so much oil out of a rig.
So even if they took control of ALL the oil (telling the rest of the world to fuck off), they'd be 8 million barrels short under the best of conditions.

Where are we going to get the rest of all that oil? Because you can be DAMN sure that OPEC will refuse to deliver another DROP while the US maintains single control over Iraq's oil fields. So then we're sunk. However, I think that smart people in Washington (and yes, there are a few) will also realise this?

So there has to be another reason for it. The threat thing I don't buy. Sure Saddam Hussein has Weapons of Mass Destruction (WoMD), but so does everybody else, and quite frankly, I find the idea of a nuclear north korea MUCH more frightening than Saddam with some Anthrax. Because North Korea has already SHOWN that they will sell their shit to whomever has the money, no questions asked.

So why are we so gung ho about Iraq and are we letting the whole North Korea thing just sit there? I don't mind the fact that we're not giving in to that fucking slanty eyed lunatic up there, but we could AT LEAST pressure the damn UN into doing something about it.
Presumably, we're ignoring North Korea for now because it's a stupid idea to divide your attention into two fronts, and Iraq simply "happened" sooner.

Getting rid of Saddam Hussein is an admirable cause, but I don't think that anybody will thank the US for it, and do we really want to be the ones to have to pay for rebuilding Iraq? Because George W isn't telling us, but it's going to cost a fucking SHITLOAD of money to get their country back on its feet, and it's money we quite simply DO NOT HAVE.

So, in the end, all I can come up with is some form of the Doctrine of Fear. After kicking the Taliban and Bin Lama out of Afghanistan, and now going to kick Saddam out of Iraq, I think the US wants to send a message (specifically to the Middle East) that says "if you so much as condone terrorism, this is what happens to you."

If used consistently and effectively, the Doctrine of Fear (Rommel, 1941) can work quite well. However, an unfortunate side effect is that it also scares your allies. In this case Europe. Which is NOT a good thing, despite what we think.

This has gotten long already, so I'll stop. Thanks for reading

Creston

Edit : Thank God that they found that girl. I hope that bearded fucker who allegedly kidnapped her gets the Electric Chair...

This comment was edited on Mar 12, 17:56.
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36.
 
Re: Dude to CRAW
Mar 12, 2003, 17:42
36.
Re: Dude to CRAW Mar 12, 2003, 17:42
Mar 12, 2003, 17:42
 
Poor Craw.
"what makes the US deserve ICBM's and atomic/ biological weapons any more than any country"
The US doesn't use them to try and take over the world. Other countries have atomic weapons. Why aren't we invading them?
"case in point.. the US is "the" and still remains "the only country" to use an Atomic device to achieve it's means.. so who's dirty"
Ahh The US was having peace talks with Japan and then they launch a surprise attack on a major military base and have plans for invading. OH BUT USA IS EVIL AND WRONG for responding. "What about the INNOCENT civilians?" There's no such thing. The US could've taken over Japan and Iraq. If you think this is really all about getting power then your ignoring some simple logic.
And I'd like someone to show me a reliable article that says the US is getting it's oil from Iraq. I have seen other articles which claim the US gets almost no oil from Iraq.
"Sen. Gary Condit had his ex-lover offed when she did't subscribe to the program"
Umm where's your proof? You must know more than the police
BTW They found Elizabeth Smart.
http://www.sltrib.com/2003/Mar/03122003/utah/elizabeth.asp

35.
 
Dude to CRAW
Mar 12, 2003, 17:20
35.
Dude to CRAW Mar 12, 2003, 17:20
Mar 12, 2003, 17:20
 
Craw,

It looks as though you've stepped in to a rather heated circle. Is Saddam Hussien really evil? or is he the darkside of every politician out that that is willing to remove opposition or unfavorable beliefs/ sentiments?

Turkey, Saudia Arabia, Iran, Isreal all those territories are excessive in how they dispatch justice.

Am I for Isreal? I don't think so. The country is a mixxed bag of nuts funded by the US.. Do I support the Palestinians? no.. But, I have no problem with them exacting retribution on a state that is intent on dominating and forcing the original citizens to live like dogs on the street. Using stromtropper methods and occupying residents housing forcing them to live as refugees. If you go back a little in history... didn't the Nazi's do the same to the Jews? hmmmmmmmmmmmm? makes you think?????????????/

Is this really a war on terrorism? Or the new label on Imperialism with a new guise. Fact is you don't know whom the US has been in business with and what caused this talespin/ tidal wave of troubles.. But, I can bet one thing. Bush and family are tied to it... as well the collapse Enron????

Do you realize that every Democracy... be it shake-and bake or long lived caves in on it's self. Thus becoming a socialist or psuedo-authoritarian plutocracy.

Sen. Gary Condit had his ex-lover offed when she did't subscribe to the program.

George Bush had his goons remove that congress man in Minnesota that was publicly against his agenda and he as well as his entire family was lost in a suspect plane crash

George Bush Sr. sent the US Military into Panama after Manuel Noriega decided not to be a Puppet for the CIA and US Goverment and wiped out thousands of panamainen citizens to test new weapons of Weapons of Mass (all beit on conventional level).

the CIA and Austrailia where the root cause of the destablization of Papua New Guinea/ East Timor

YOU are one horribly informed Red-Blooded American

I have traveled to some of these places... and you should what imbalance is... you don't know anything partner.

I am a simple well behaved partisan of this country. But, believe the US did not come about to frutition with humanitarian convictions. I can most certianly school you and other that think similarly like you as to what's going on in the world... Neither did Spain for that matter

you are depraved "my man" by the visions of zionist, zealots,

are we Free? that is the question.. and Freedom fries what the hell is that? propeganda to curb the minds of the meek.

I'LL TAKE MY FRENCH CUT FRIES IN BUCKETS Buddy. That's Freedom the right to choose what the inventor invisioned


and please don't let me get started on the invasion the US and the English PM is trying to sell on a soviergn country.

and ask yourslf this ? what makes the US deserve ICBM's and atomic/ biological weapons any more than any country.

case in point.. the US is "the" and still remains "the only country" to use an Atomic device to achieve it's means.. so who's dirty

Not to mention when the US could not make clearance in the Korean conflict MacArthur was trying to rally support for use of an Atomic bomb in the Korean peninsula. (thank god that zealot was fired).


I'm started now..

the Philippines and so on and so on

Bon soir et Au revior mon ami

This comment was edited on Mar 12, 17:41.
-The Dude-

Vic B.
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