Send News. Want a reply? Read this. More in the FAQ.   News Forum - All Forums - Mobile - PDA - RSS Headlines  RSS Headlines   Twitter  Twitter
Customize
User Settings
Styles:
LAN Parties
Upcoming one-time events:
Germany 08/31
Chicago, IL USA, IL 10/19

Regularly scheduled events

NWN Undrentide Add-on Official

As promised when the beans about this (and another still unannounced) expansion were spilled last night (story), BioWare and ATARI announce Neverwinter Nights™: Shadows of Undrentide is the press release officially announcing this upcoming expansion for Neverwinter Nights, BioWare's D&D RPG. Here's a bit of what they have to say about the add-on, being co-developed by BioWare and FloodGate Entertainment: "Neverwinter Nights: Shadows of Undrentide will include a new 40-hour single player campaign as well as game features new to Neverwinter Nights, such as additional D&D™ skills, feats, classes, monsters, weapons and spells. In addition, the pack will include two new tile sets and other assets for use in the Aurora toolset that will enable amateur module designers to create completely different worlds."

View
23 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >

23. Re: BG2 not as good as BG1 Dec 3, 2002, 20:17 ReDeeMeR
 
I loved the epic feel of BG1, the map in wich you chose where to go and what to do next, and when you had to move through forests and being attacked by bandits while sleeping and so on, in BGII you were basicaly given a city without much choice, despite all that I really like BGII.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
22. Re: BG2 not as good as BG1 Dec 2, 2002, 15:02 Sharpei Diem
 
in your opinion, why is BG1 better than BG2?

Personally, I like lower level adventures....level 1 gets to be a little mundane, but a party of 3-8th level characters is(for me) where the game gets most exciting: battles can be longer and complex, the characters aren't quite strong enough on their own, they start to have interesting abilities and skills and can live for a while, and they can be challenged by a diverse range of things(from singular high level monsters to multitudes of low level monsters). In higher level adventures, things tend to be repetitive..

I liked the ability to roam around in BG1 and the way the story developed. In BG2(which was still very good), some parts were very good(i think chp 2 when you got out of amn), but some parts were pretty lame(the escape from capture bit was tiring). Later on, I started to get irritated at the high-level spell casting: something that really bothered me in BG:ToB

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
21. Re: BG2 not as good as BG1 Dec 2, 2002, 14:50 Sharpei Diem
 
Bioware have said that the series is over and done with as on Throne of Bhaal

Hmm, since black isle's licence for D&D games is now up, i think that is more of a factor unless bioware deals directly with infogrames...

Actually i find the whole relationship pretty difficult to comprehend. Can anyone can clear it up for me?

Hasbro: giant toy company & holder of D&D license
Infogrames: giant publisher with rights to publish games owned by Hasbro
Interplay: publisher(?). Sued by bioware i believe..
Black Isle: developer/pulisher(?) used to have rights to publish/make D&D games
Bioware: developer of the engine

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
20. Re: BG2 not as good as BG1 Dec 2, 2002, 02:40 Buzzy
 
MUSCULAR BEAVER!!!: "BG1 was great, BG2 was good, but not as good as BG1."

Just thought I'd ask: in your opinion, why is BG1 better than BG2? While I enjoyed both of them immensly, I thought that BG2 was superior. It had more interesting and diverse locales; a higher level cap; more weapons, accessories, and monsters; better quests (IMHO); and was just a better story in general. I've never heard anyone say that the first was better than the second, so I thought I'd ask.

Also, I'm afraid that you will not be seeing a third game in the series... at least not an official game. In several interviews, the folks at Bioware have said that the series is over and done with as on Throne of Bhaal. Which makes sense: your character has basically become a god at level 35-45 (depending on class), you've reclaimed the throne of your father, and all the other children of Bhaal were erradicated in that war. The story has no where else to go. I'm hoping that this NWN expansion comes with a campaign more engrossing than the OC; something more akin to the BG series.

--Buzzy

This comment was edited on Dec 2, 02:41.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
19. Re: No subject Dec 1, 2002, 21:17 Yifes
 
NWN was the most disappointing game for me ever. I really enjoyed the BG series and PT, and NWN was supposed to be a step up from that. Instead, they turned it into one huge hack and slash game that's not as fun as Diablo, and only just a bit deeper. (nice graphics tho) (Note. I stopped playing after I got to chapter 3; I just couldn’t stand NWN any longer)
Why I hated NWN:
1. Retarded Henchmen. Since you have only one person to control, the quality of the AI has to be good to maintain some degree of coordination. Unfortunately, your henchmen are usually idiots, negating all forms of TACTICAL PLANNING that was the highlight of the Infinity engine games.
2. Mindless quests. The first major quest of the game has you entering 4 different areas, wading through hoards and hoards of the same enemies, to collect the special item from the end. This might have been bearable had the combat been fun, but since the action is all repetition, the story development is nonexistent (stuck on the same damn quest for hours), the levels are inane, and the reward is disappointing, the experience was inferior to any decent CRPG.
3. Too much waiting. There seems to be a locked treasure chest around every corner and at least 4 in a room. Each one you have to spend 5 seconds to open, while most of them contain pennies. If you finish the campaign, then you have wasted a least 1 hour of your life staring at a little bar running across the screen.
4. Level cap on items. It took me around 7 tires to kill Firkaag (?) in BG2, and getting Carsomyr seemed like a real achievement. So what if a level 9 pally was wielding the Holy Avenger if he/she earned it fair and square? Can’t do that in NWN… for balance issues…


 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
18. Re: OC? Nov 29, 2002, 12:52 Scottish Martial Arts
 
what is 'The OC'?

The Official Campaign. The series of Bioware developed modules that are included in Neverwinter Nights.


 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
17. OC? Nov 28, 2002, 15:47 Merc248
 
ok... maybe im just uninformed, but what is 'The OC'?

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
16. Re: No subject Nov 28, 2002, 14:09 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Uh, lets see... you could be a fighter (body armor etc.), a rogue (stealth or picking locks), a magic user (scrambler grenade)... sounds like a typical range of choice. The only real difference between this and NWN that you've brought up is in the possibility of multiple physical paths to the goal.

The key difference being that in Neverwinter Nights your only option is to use the skills of you character to kill the enemies. As such the games difficulty level was based upon the class you played through as. A fighter has no trouble getting through the game as he is good at killing stuff and killing stuff is the primary obstacle in your path to victory. Mages and Rogues had a much harder time at it as their skill set wasn't dedicated to killing things. Since there were no challenges that their skill set could face better than a fighter the Mage and the Rogue become just a more challenging way to play through the game. To me this is antithesis to good CRPG design.

The OC is designed for just one sort of character: the Fighter. Rogues can't sneak by the enemies as killing monsters is where 95% of the experience points come from. Mages are dependent on having a party to protect them from harm, something a henchman and familiar can't do. Instead of the OC allowing you to take your character archtype, and respond to challenges as that archtype would, you are forced to just cut a path through the bad guys.

The reason why I dislike NWN is not because its a bad program, it is because it's a bad game for the reasons I mentioned. To add insult to injury the vast majority of publications and websites have praised the OC as being the best thing since Planescape: Torment. The OC was something I'd expect from an amateur mod developer not an A-List Development House.

I have high hopes for the first NWN expansion pack as it's being developed by former LGS people. As for the the XP2 I'm prepared to be disappointed. The Bioware modules released since the OC (i.e The Winds of Eremor) have met the OC in mediocrity. As such I don't feel confident that XP2 will be any better.

This comment was edited on Nov 28, 14:11.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
15. Re: No subject Nov 28, 2002, 04:22 Muscular Beaver
 
I want to see baldurs gate 3! BG1 was great, BG2 was good, but not as good as BG1. but NWN was a major drawback! just look at that crapp engine, you cant get a good atmosphere with it and the crappy gameplay/control. even dungeon siege is superior to NWN (singleplayer and atmosphere-wise).
I was very disappointed by NWN, it makes you think its just a low budget product with no depth, after everyone shouted it will be the greatest RPG of all times. a new singleplayer module wont help.
they should keep it the way it is (concentrated on multiplayer) and concentrate on something completly different for singleplayer.

 
Avatar 12928
 
Waiting for BIS to come back to their senses and do a real ArmA 2 successor.
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
14. Re: No subject Nov 28, 2002, 02:56 Chance
 
Scottish Martial Arts: "For example their is a room with 2 MJ12 Troopers and a Security Bot. How to tackle this problem? You could put on some body armor and blow em up with the GEP gun. You could activate cloaking and silent run augs and slip by without them ever knowing you were there. You could find an alternate way around the room by sneaking through vents, picking the locks to alternative doors etc. You could toss a scrambler grenade in the room and slip by in the ensuing chaos as the Security Bot engages the Troopers. The number of potential solutions are limitless,"

Uh, lets see... you could be a fighter (body armor etc.), a rogue (stealth or picking locks), a magic user (scrambler grenade)... sounds like a typical range of choice. The only real difference between this and NWN that you've brought up is in the possibility of multiple physical paths to the goal. I loved Deus Ex, it was very well done, but the range of solutions was largely based on your choice of skill and augmentation rather than physical paths just as it is, by class, in NWN. The different routes were there to enable you to use your skills / augmentations. Typically the different classes in NWN apply there skills in the same environment rather than requiring a special path / area to use them. I agree that multiple paths can help, but often the game comes to a critical chokepoint where something has to be done / seen etc.

The official campaign could have been better, no arguement there (although I thought it was fair). The problems with it derive from two factors IMO. First, the game had to be all things to all people -- it had a very broad audience, far more so than the other games you mention. Second, the NWN official campaign requires a relatively unskilled 1st level character to be the hero, and level up as he goes on the ultimate quest. This never works very well. I mean, come on a fortress ransacked by a bunch of skeletons and goblins? Makes you wonder just how weak the good guys are if they need a 1st level charachter to ride, er... walk, to the rescue. How earthshaking could the problem be? I think they needed to provide an environment for characters to level up in and bring the quests on later (i.e. they needed a "dungeon" area for adventure). In a paper and pencil game, and I've run them for 27 years, the starting character is not usually asked to save the world, or any significant part of it. He may catch glimpses of the big picture, but doing these things comes later when it makes sense for someone to hand them the big quest.

*edit* Damn rogue smiley... popped up in the middle, kind of a random encounter...
This comment was edited on Nov 28, 02:59.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
13. Re: No subject Nov 28, 2002, 02:19 Scottish Martial Arts
 
What's funny is none of the games you mentioned allow a player to truely come up with his own solutions. Just like NWN they offer the player a limited set of "solutions" to choose from. Some games may offer more choices than others. But none allow the player to truely solve it his own way.

I disagree. Your right on their being a limted set of solutions but on the other hand the challenges of life have a limited set of solutions as well. You can't drive to the supermarket to get some milk by killing everyone in the room. As such in the games I mentioned quests and missions that by their nature can't be solved a certain way can't be solved that way. For example, defeating the Master in Fallout can't be solved by stealing everything from his inventory. He can however be killed in straight up combat, he can be convinced that his master plan has to many flaws to work or you can activate the nuclear weapon beneath his stronghold.

In the case of Deus Ex the game got rather linear in it's solutions towards the end but much of the game adapted to your play style. For example their is a room with 2 MJ12 Troopers and a Security Bot. How to tackle this problem? You could put on some body armor and blow em up with the GEP gun. You could activate cloaking and silent run augs and slip by without them ever knowing you were there. You could find an alternate way around the room by sneaking through vents, picking the locks to alternative doors etc. You could toss a scrambler grenade in the room and slip by in the ensuing chaos as the Security Bot engages the Troopers. The number of potential solutions are limitless, how can you say that the early and middle portions of Deus Ex only had a limited number of solutions?

In the case of Neverwinter Nights only one quest to my memory was non-combat. There were plenty of quests and challenges that by there nature could have had multiple paths to victory but Bioware chose to be lazy and just write hack-and-slash solutions. Granted the vast majority of their effort went into creating an electronic version of 3rd Edition D&D and not the Official Campaign. Still this is not an excuse for a poorly designed game getting rave reviews. Don't get my wrong I think Neverwinter Nights is a excellent APPLICATION, just like the D&D Core Rule Books are an excellent rule set, but as a game it's sub-par, just like many Official D&D modules.

For me a good CRPG allows the player to have a concept for his character and gives him the ability to act out that concept in the challenges that he faces over the course of the game. Maybe there is way to do this without offering multiple solutions to quests and challenges but I sure don't see how it works. In my mind the MULTIPLE SOLUTIONS to games such as Fallout, Planescape: Torment, and Deus Ex allow you to solve the game based upon how you believe your character would. That is something those games have and the Official Campaign to Neverwinter Nights does not.


 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
12. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 23:58 Karnisov
 
i really wish they would do fallout 3..... then again is it still the same Black Isle now, would they be capable of a sequel worthy to bear the name of the series?  
"Think for yourself. Question authority."
-- Timothy Leary
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
11. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 23:07 DrEvil
 
What's funny is none of the games you mentioned allow a player to truely come up with his own solutions. Just like NWN they offer the player a limited set of "solutions" to choose from. Some games may offer more choices than others. But none allow the player to truely solve it his own way.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
10. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 21:33 Scottish Martial Arts
 
What's an example of a computer game that you've liked, that allows you to come up with your own solutions to problems in a non-linear way?

Fallout, Deus Ex, Thief, and Planescape Torment.


 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
9. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 19:51 Heraclitus
 
"None of the quests were very interesting, just a long series of fed-ex and go-kill-a monster-and-bring-me-its-head/treasure quests."

I liked the whole ancient-lizard-man-temple-back-and-forth-in-time component. I found it very engaging; it reminded me of Planescape: Torment.

"Maybe some people like that sort of linearity but I prefer to come up with my own solutions to problems, a lot like PnP D&D."

What's an example of a computer game that you've liked, that allows you to come up with your own solutions to problems in a non-linear way?

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
8. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 18:30 Alciril
 
One big problem with PnP is actually getting people together for a session. I was able to play a number of great NWN sessions with old high school friends who are on opposite ends of the country. I've also had a chance to meet lots of great people in the process too.

PnP can also take a long time. It's not uncommon for a battle to unfold over a few hours of play time. All the turns, the dice rolling, the calculations, and the double checking of rules takes its toll. I really liked the idea of being able to go through a DM'd NWN campaign session in one night.

This comment was edited on Nov 27, 18:31.
 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
7. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 17:53 Scottish Martial Arts
 
Really? I can see enjoying NWN just not the single-player campaign.

The OC had great production values it was just real mediocre content. None of the quests were very interesting, just a long series of fed-ex and go-kill-a monster-and-bring-me-its-head/treasure quests. In addition, the mediocre quests that are thrown your way really only have one solution. Maybe some people like that sort of linearity but I prefer to come up with my own solutions to problems, a lot like PnP D&D.

That brings me to my next big complaint with NWN: why not play PnP instead? The only way I've had fun with NWN is with a group of buddies playing DM'd custom modules. If you can get that sort of coordination why not play PnP instead? Granted, NWN captures PnP like no other game but if your going for a PnP experience just play Pnp.

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
6. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 16:18 Xombie
 
I liked it too.  
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
5. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 15:17 Dr.Del
 
wooho! cant wait to pick up this one.. hope it is out soon.... (before Xmas)



- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1
 
Avatar 10723
 
- DrDel
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
4. Re: No subject Nov 27, 2002, 15:06 DrEvil
 
NO, I'm not. I thoroughly enjoyed the single player campaign, as did a few of my friends who own the game. Every person has their own taste. To me it was great!

 
Reply Quote Edit Delete Report
 
23 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
< Newer [ 1 2 ] Older >


footer

Blue's News logo