Those whiny cocksucking bastards had to go and fuck up a good game. Dumb sons of bitches. I hate theses people more than I hate niggers now. Stupid mother fuckers. Always whining about someone being racist to them. Always complaining the world is agianst them. STUPID MOTHER FUCKERS!!! Someone should kill them all!!

This is simply my opinion, but i seriously understand how the sikhs take their religion seriously, but what i dont understand, is why you dont see christians complaining their hearts out. Notice in that game the last level is basically a slaughter in a church, with even you shooting someone inside a confessional. I personally have no problem with this, as i know it's simply a game. In movies also, you see tons of movies where people are slaughtered in churches, racism, sexism, and even homophobia are taken to extremes. I've seen plenty of games, sites, books, magazines, you name it, that suggest killing of germans in modern times is a PLUS in the world, just because of their past, that i'm sure many feel they shouldnt be associated with. Yet out of all of these you still see very little to NO complaints. I very much do not understand that.

And Yes i personally have played through this game, every level, and I do not believe where they are coming from is correct. As stated earlier, tons of races are portrayed in that game, ranging from italians, to whites, to asians. All of them you can kill one and the same. Still no complaints from them. In fact i bet you a lot of them even enjoy this game. I'm hispanic, and personally, i couldnt care less if someone made a game where you kill a person who is brown skinned, has a mustache, wears a bandana, and is mowing a lawn while eating tacos bought from a taco van. You wanna know why? Because it's a game. People need to learn to differentiate between a game and real life. If you're not able to, there's a simple solution. Yep. Don't play it. If it offends you, dont buy it. And don't tell me stuff like "Well they dont know what kind of content is in the game." It just takes a few simple clicks to get a fast, quick, easy, and thorough review at one of hundreds of sites that provide game reviews online. Heck you could even ask a friend.

And also: In their petition, they listed the level description. They said "It clearly refers to etc etc." Guess what? They're assuming. For all they know, bob down in accounting could've had the idea for that level, as maybe his son or daughter was really into architecture, and likes to design buildings in their spare time. You can't base a whole case on an assumed fact. You should prove your "Educated Guesses" before you list them as true.
-SgtNeo

Once again these are my opinions only, and no i'm not saying everyone should feel like i do, just stating them

And Del, i agree with some of ur points, and this is no way an attack on you... but is ignorance your favorite word? I bet that has to be one of the top 5 said words in here behind racism, sikhs, hitler, and hitman... =P

This comment was edited on Nov 18, 02:20.

Heh, a bit of post editing here.

"The people are not Blacks, so your arguments are flawed. They may look like them, but what does that prove?"

Just to prove a point.


This comment was edited on Nov 10, 04:31.

I believe Dr. Del is simply mis-directing his anger and grief over the recent loss of his mother. Sad. I'm sorry for your loss Doc.

Well I guess all of you can stop arguing cuz its over now.

EIdos put out a corporate statement that can be found on their website (www.hitman2.com) that says:

Eidos Plc is pleased to confirm that it has reached an amicable position with the Sikh Coalition in relation to the changing of certain images and references depicting Sikhs within the game Hitman 2:Silent Assassin which is on general release.

In recognition of the concerns and sensitivities which have been raised, Eidos and the developers, IO Interactive, have responded in both a socially and commercially responsible manner by:

removing from the Hitman 2 website all relevant images and content;
taking steps to amend the game on all existing platforms; and
adapting the next edition of the game due out for the GameCube platform.
Eidos and IO Interactive would like to stress that no offence was intended but would like to apologise to the Sikh community and other persons for any offence taken.

Eidos recognises the value of upholding the Company's good corporate citizenship status and strives to observe high standards of ethical
behaviour in all its business activities. To that end, the lessons learned from the concerns expressed by the Sikh community will help to ensure that the Company continues to observe and respect cultural, religious and ethical sensitivities in its future products.

8 November 2002



All updates to the petition and this issue are at:

http://www.sikhcoalition.org/petitioneidos_updates.asp

See for yourself:

http://www.buy.com/retail/product.asp?sku=20347275&loc=105

Firstly, I'm Sikh and I'm a born American citizen. My parents are naturalized citizens. My father owns his own business. He has always paid his taxes. My mother even worked for HR Block (filing taxes) at one point.

Another problem in our world today is the reluctance of Americans who's families have been here for many generations to recognize first or second generation Americans.

Today Indian representatives within the U.S.A. and abroad can mount opposition to a relatively obscure game that will not effect a single soul simply for political reasons.

I'm not an Indian representative. I'm an American citizen who happens to be a Sikh.

However, in India today, class racism is rampant and horrible.

That's true. Except theres no caste system in Sikhism. This doesn't happen between the Sikhs.

Entire sects of the population are degraded and oppressed, by the very classes of Indian Nationals we see in the United States today.

This also happens in India, and Sikhs are a victim of this discrimination. The proof is in the Golden Temple attack and the subsequent anti-Sikh riots in India.

Indian merchant spits on a poor lower caste whom his clan has held down for 800 years

I don't know how factual that scenario is, but you have to understand that when you say Indian, you mean Hindu. Hinduism is the only religion in India with a caste system.
But I would also like to point out the similarity between that and the fact that America has kept down entire nations of people by installing dictators to power in countries such as Iran, Guatemala, Chile etc. Don't believe me? Go see Bowling for Columbine.

See when you generalize and create stereotypes like you did in your post, you're only creating a precursor to racism.

This comment was edited on Nov 6, 14:08.

Alex Johnson,

Sure there is racism going on in India today but changing the topic has nothing to do with the racism in Hitman 2 directly.

For the record, Indians commit crimes in America just like other Americans. No one is saying Indians are perfect!

But let us not forget the class system in America. If someone doesn't have money they do not receive the same health care as someone who does.

Let us not forget about the racism that goes on in America too, but that is a whole new topic.

People can point a finger at the age old class sytem in India, which is slowly being eroded away, but let us not forget about the class sytem in our own front yard.




- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.

Like I said, I very much doubt they're admitting they're wrong. They're just trying to avoid trouble. They want to sell games, so they're not going to give people the chance to cause trouble for them. So right now, whatever content Eidos are changing is only to avoid trouble.

It's political correctness, but that doesn't mean it's correct.

Today Indian representatives within the U.S.A. and abroad can mount opposition to a relatively obscure game that will not effect a single soul simply for political reasons. However, in India today, class racism is rampant and horrible. Entire sects of the population are degraded and oppressed, by the very classes of Indian Nationals we see in the United States today. Its the same with parts of the Muslim world; You can bring forth a federal lawsuit and bring out the NAACP if you are asked to leave an airline during major attacks upon U.S. soil on the grounds you are the victim of racial profiling, yet as we speak a Muslim man rapes an 11 year old girl in the Deserts of Afgahnistan, and Indian merchant spits on a poor lower caste whom his clan has held down for 800 years, a Motel owner in Southern California looks at his Indian wife and slides 1400 cash in daily reciepts into his safe, circumventing American taxes from business profits the American government granted him a special loan to buy (And if you refute this, there is a special task force created recently in California to deal with the huge problem of not paying taxes on businesses purchased by Far-East immigrants on Govt. Loans, its a huge scam).

And wow, it's pulled for buy.com...that's SO impressive. The sky really IS falling.

I love it... even when

a)the game starts getting pulled
b)a non-Sikh politician starts his letter writing
c)Eidos removes the offensive pictures and story from their website
d)Eidos agrees to remove all Sikh related content in the GC version (basically admitting that they are WRONG)
e) Eidos allegedly apologizes

when it has only been 7 days after the initial petition was released, the Hitler 2 Fanoys *still* don't think it's a big deal.

Let me guess, there are still no Sikh portrayals in the game either, right?

bahaha...

as I say.. I love being right.


- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.

>>> ah, the intellect of Von Helmet... no arguments from his side so he resorts to name calling. sad. very sad.

It's not any worse than you discounting other people's posts based on spelling. Or have we forgotten that?

And wow, it's pulled for buy.com...that's SO impressive. The sky really IS falling.

Von Helmet,

You're a moron Del.

ah, the intellect of Von Helmet... no arguments from his side so he resorts to name calling. sad. very sad.

keep watching the gaming sites.. a few big announcements about this issue will be made soon enough (assuming they want to post it that is).. better yet just do a google search for "hitman 2 sikh" and you will learn the truth about how the Sikhs are winning...

- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 12:50.

You're a moron Del.

Eidos haven't pulled the thing because anyone was right, but just to stop the shouting. I very much doubt that they have suddenly gone "Oh, hang on, that level is really offensive.". More likely they're just avoiding any negative attention. It's good politics and marketing.

The people are not Sikhs, so your arguments are flawed. They may look like them, but what does that prove?

if I remember correctly, it was this link where a lot of the Sikh killing information was:

http://www.hitman2.com/content/india.htm


The Hitler 2 team has now PULLED the screenshots and changed the background story of the level.

and get this, as things develop further:

According to the article, Eidos has removed references to the Sikh and the mission from the game's official web site and has apologised for the offending references in the game ...

I love being right.


ps: just for clarification in my previous post for those who can't seem to read english even though it is their native tongue, no the warezed copy was not mine.


- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.
This comment was edited on Nov 6, 12:10.

Have you actually played the level in question?

I think I have stated this a few times already Von Helmet... Hell no! I haven't played the game, forget about the level in question.. seeing someone play a warezed copy of the level was enough for me, thank you.

why would I spend my money on a game that I know is breaking the rules, in my opinion? that would be silly. As I have stated many times before, the game Hitler 2 .. oops, I mean Hitman 2, can burn in hell alongside the dev team.

it doesn' matter whether you are *supposed* to kill Sikhs or not, what the objective of the level is or whether Hitler is a suave character.

the mounting evidence of the online screenshots, the story of the level (which has now been pulled from the Official website ha!) and the gameplay of the level itself show Sikh's acting against everything they stand for in their religion. 1) being killed in the gurdwara, 2) pulling out weapons in a gurdwara, 3) Sihks killing others in the gurdwara 4) the obvious attempt to rekindle one of the most sensitive historical points of Sikh history.

must I repeat my position one more time, Von Helmet, or did you finally get it?

- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.

Fortunately, the U.S. Bill of Rights foresaw this inherent human flaw and amended the Constitution with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

it's a great rule, so long as everyone follows it, including the President/Congress/Police...



- Dr. Del
http://www.SuperBlog.com
AMD XP 2200+, ATI Radeon 9700 Pro, 512 RAM, 19" ViewSonic LCD flat panel, 120 G WD HDD 8meg cache, WinXP Pro SP1

Mothers Are Everything. Jan 1, 1943 - Oct 19, 2002.

It's amazingly ironic how censorship filters itself down the chain--even to such topics as computer games. The problem with censorship, in general, is that it attempts to control the macrocosm (the world, essentially) through its narrow interpretation of the world (the microcosm).

Fortunately, the U.S. Bill of Rights foresaw this inherent human flaw and amended the Constitution with "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances."

To keep our freedom of speech (and essentially our free will), no matter how much an opinion, idea, expression, or voice upsets us (any of us) personally or culturally, we must bear it in order to secure that our own voice does not become suppressed as well.

This comment was edited on Nov 6, 13:06.

He hasn't even played the game, Von Helmet, he just likes to make stuff up.

Have you actually played the level in question?