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Sniper Game Fallout

Criticism of sniper games rises (thanks Dan Leadbetter) has the news that Sniper: Path of Vengeance has been pulled from Wal-Mart shelves in the Washington, D.C. area. The move is described as being motivated by sensitivity to how the game's title and subject matter relate to the numerous recent murders by a sniper in the area, rather than any actual belief that the game is somehow at fault for, or otherwise connected to these attacks. The article goes on to discuss criticisms of shooter games, offering opinions both supporting and countering theories about their influence.

88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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88. What the hell?!?! Oct 31, 2002, 15:36 Libbo
It seems out little post has fallen off the popular threads list (even though our number of posts is greater than most of the subjects listed). Do I smell a conspiracy here????

Or maybe this topic just isn't as interesting as I keep pretending it is. Guess I will never get an answer to my question...

This comment was edited on Oct 31, 15:37.
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87. Re: Ban the Military Oct 30, 2002, 16:16 Libbo
Hell, this whole thread has been about that subject so don't get too excited that I threw you a bone because you could keep your crayon within the lines. The only reason I swooped on your first post was because you flat out stated that the military and it's band of "wack-jobs" (as you call them) are more responsible for acts of violence against civilians than video games.

I am happy to see that my act of calling you to the carpet has given you an opportunity to explain yourself in more detail. Doesn't it feel good to come clean on the fact that your slip up was the result of not thinking before you hit the little post button rather than an outright act of malice towards the military?

And I hope this little incident hasn't caused our friendship to come to an end.

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86. Re: Ban the Military Oct 30, 2002, 16:01 c r i s p y
I know full well that you are only trying to make a point that it is indeed ridiculous to lay the blame on video games

You got it! You actually got my point!

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85. Re: Ban the Military Oct 30, 2002, 15:39 Libbo
Crispy, I must confess that it is nothing more than my tenacious spirit that keeps me from letting this go. Although I feel like I will have about as much success pointing out your erroneous comments as I would convincing a drunk that pissing his pants really doesn't impress the ladies I must try to make you see the truth.

Let's back up an cover your exact words:

"If you were trying to determine the motivation for the sniper's actions, and it was between two scenarios, which would you consider more likely?

1) He learned to shoot people playing video games.
2) He learned to shoot people in the military. "

Here we find that you have started out on the right track by asking what exactly was the sniper's motivation...but then you jump right back into the silly argument that learning to shoot is what caused him to commit those murders.

No. Don't try to back peddle and insist that I am the one failing to understand. Look at what you said! You are trying to shoe horn two separate issues under one argument. I know full well that you are only trying to make a point that it is indeed ridiculous to lay the blame on video games - and perhaps you were a little over zealous when choosing another target of opportunity - but the fact remains this: You are being just as careless as the media when you blame the military for what took place.

In all fairness, it is not outside the realm of possibility that in this particular case you may be right. Perhaps the killer had a bad experience in the Army one day when he went to the chow hall (or do the Army Doggies call it a mess hall? I forget...) and discovered that his favorite flavor of Jell-O had been taken off the menu and then years down the road he saw a Jell-o commercial with Bill Cosby and it was so damn lame that it sent him off the deep end. I doubt the real reasons are that far fetched but to blame the military as a whole is just plain ignorant.

So feel free to pipe back up (although I doubt you will) and tell me some more about how misunderstood you are.

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84. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 15:20 hardcorps1775
"simple minded, slack jawed, pathetic excuse for a human being!"??? why you rotten just wait til i roll a 17 and get my super wizardly spells!!! i'll get you all! i will wreak my unholy...uhhh, never mind...

thing is what are you gonna do about pc-ism??? what can we do??? what about a boycott of wal-mart? worked for smith & wesson when they pissed off gunowners! worked for k-mart when they stopped selling ammo in their stores and denny's when they were perceived as being racist...but would such a boycott be taken seriously?

man, we need our own nra/naacp!

This comment was edited on Oct 30, 15:21.
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83. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 14:55 Libbo
Oh what the hell do you know about games hardcorps1775?!?! You simple minded, slack jawed, pathetic excuse for a human being!

....Whoa! Wait a caught up in the gladiatorial atmosphere for a second. My deepest apologies.

Seriously though, if you check back to the earlier posts in here it seems we are all on the same sheet of music. Where does the madness come from? Is this just a western cultural crutch that drives the need to have something or someone to blame when things go south? What ever happened to good old fashioned accountability? Where does the belief that we must find a neatly packaged excuse for everything come from?

I can vaguely remember an incident back in the mid 80's (I think!) when some spankwads got all carried away trying to live out their Dungeons & Dragons adventures in the woods somewhere and some lives were lost (if anyone has a better recollection of what I am talking about please excuse any errors I may have just committed). Not long after this event there was all kinds of fallout on RPG's and I believe there was even a made for TV movie as a result. It was bad enough to be a geek playing the game, but now you had the additional stigma of being looked upon like you were criminally insane if someone spotted your 20-sided die. I played D&D for a number of years and even though I am far from the most stable of people on the planet I somehow never found myself dressing up in tin foil armor and trying to vanquish the mail man with a +10 tire iron of invincibility.

Ah yes, my trusty tire iron....wait, I am sliding off track again.

I would like to hear from anyone that can justify the witch hunts that take place following a tragic event like the one we experienced here in the D.C. area. We have a great deal of bright gamers in here (man I wish I was one of them) so I am sure someone can come up with a plausible reason why people are so weak willed that they are compelled to jump on the scapegoat bandwagon.


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82. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 14:52 Tigger

Thanks for the Slurpee!

As for the rest, glad to see we're on the same page!

Libbo - Ditto!

This comment was edited on Oct 30, 14:54.
Avatar 7252
Vic Fontaine for President
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81. Re: Ban the Military Oct 30, 2002, 14:46 c r i s p y

You, sir, are the one that lacks understanding.

Since you've managed to miss my point twice now, I won't strain your comprehension skills by trying to make it a third time.

This comment was edited on Oct 30, 14:47.
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80. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 14:24 hardcorps1775
holy shit, we did get a little off topic!

i don't think there's any way you can blame video games for the violence out there. you definitely can't learn any real military type skills out there, can you? barring flight sims, of course...i think they can exacerbate preexisting conditions though because if an individual gets too "into it", he becomes isolated and even reclusive in extreme cases. they had a case on 60 minutes about a guy who played "everquest(?)". he had existing, long term pysch probs and eventually killed himself when his character was killed. the mother is trying to blame the game but, come on, her son had probs long before...banning these games is a touchy-feely politically correct measure that just diverts attention from real probs til they come up and bite you in the ass...

my $.02

This comment was edited on Oct 30, 14:25.
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79. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 14:11 Libbo
Is it getting ugly in here or what? I have to say that I don't see anyone telling you how to think Bobby. Just different view points being thrown out.

I get pissed when I hear people bag on the military (and I don't need to throw my service record out there to back it up) and I am quick to educate anyone, in real life or online, who clearly doesn't know a damn thing about the subject. Having served in the military yourself I am willing to bet you are with me when I say that unless you have given something to this country beyond paying taxes you should just keep your lips closed on the subject. Studying up on a topic is fine for a class room but this is just one of those things that you have to walk the walk to really be taken seriously. But from what I can see I think it is safe to say you are arguing with someone who just might have a little more military experience than you think he does.

You seem to be a strong advocate for improving voter turn out - but are you doing anything about it other than attacking people in here that don't see eye to eye with you? If so, then I thank you for trying to make a difference. But if this is the extent of your contribution then I really couldn't care less about what you think is an obvious truth.

But hey, we all have a free hand at saying what is on our minds so keep charging hard! Who knows where we might end up with a topic that started out as "Sniper Game Fallout" and has grown into an all out slug-fest over the military and our democratic nation.

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78. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 13:20 hardcorps1775
ahhhhhahahahaha that's right bobbi, get up on them hind legs and bite me right on the kneecap! sure, i believe that mr. mos 19d cav scout, where'd you get that, out of the us army recruiting brochure you found at your middle school?

actually, i think maybe you ARE ex-army. those shitbirds usually do whine and complain about how they were used and abused by the military-industrial complex and "oh, how i suffered. nobody recognizes my brilliance."...shut the fuck up, punk, and go rewind your "saving private ryan" video. that's about as close as you got to the military.

and who the fuck is telling you how to think? i'm voicing my opinion that you're a whining pos that deserves no more attention than any other piece of crap that i scrape off the bottom of my shoe.

why don't you tell me any other country with the same system of gov't that respects individual rights and freedoms as this one. one that gives everyone a voice, even a high-pitched squeal like yours. is there another country around that provides opportunities for people to try and succeed or fail based on their merit like this one? and to try again? we're coming up on an election in less than a week, do you even participate?

ahhh, wtf! it's like they say, "arguing on the internet is like the special olympics, even if you win you're still retarded". you win, bobbi, you go girl!

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77. Re: Ban the Military Oct 30, 2002, 12:28 Libbo
"Oh, and for the record: I'm not an American"

Well thank God for little favors! And yes, I honestly believe that deep down America does loves it's military - but as far as speaking out against it at one's own risk...sounds kind of like you have been watching too many episodes of the X-Files partner.

As for your two scenario breakdown, nobody contested that this knucklehead learned to shoot (most likely) in the Army. The thing that pissed me off was your willingness to deflect the blame for his OVERALL ACTIONS onto the military as quickly and with even less justification than the media has while they are branding video games.

Do you understand now?

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76. Re: Ban the Military Oct 30, 2002, 11:41 c r i s p y
Wow, I posted that on the 24th, and only now have started to see some replies?! Where the hell were you people six days ago?

Listen, I don't seriously believe that disbanding the military will solve any of the worlds problems. (Niether will banning video games, or outlawing guns, BTW)

The point I was hoping to make was that to me it's ludicrous that the news media would rush to propose all these tenuous 'reasons' behind the murderer-of-the-moment, yet they neglect to suggest 'reasons' that might be unpopular--After all, it would hurt the sales of thier product.

If you were trying to determine the motivation for the sniper's actions, and it was between two scenarios, which would you consider more likely?

1) He learned to shoot people playing video games.
2) He learned to shoot people in the military.

Scenario 2 clearly has a higher probability of being true than does scenario 1 (regardless of how minute either probability is). However, if there is anything this thread has proven, it is that America loves its military, and that speaking out against it is done at one's own risk.

(Oh, and for the record: I'm not an American)
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75. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 11:32 Bob Bobsen
Been there and done that. MOS 19D Cav Scout. So I wasn't just talking out my ass. But, it is guys like him, that don't go. They don't make the sacrifices but let others do it for them. Its like Bill Murray in stripes, "I just want you all to know that if we ever go into combat, I will be behind you, 100%".
But, I just get so pissed off about people like him that try to tell me how to feel or think. They ignore the obvious, and yet appear to be so self serving when it comes to others rights.
Making fun? naw, have a slurpee on me....

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74. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 10:32 Tigger

Instead of him dying, I purpose that we bring back the draft in the next war and allow you to go to combat.

Don't joke around about it. It's not funny.

I won't debate why we're fighting and dying today. Those are some of the reasons I left the Army. It seems like the reasons don't justify the price. It's less about US Defense and more about US Interest.

"They're sending soldiers to distant places, Xs and Os on someones drawing board...Like green and plastic but with human faces, and they want to tell you it's a merciful sword." -Emily Saliers

This comment was edited on Oct 30, 10:35.
Avatar 7252
Vic Fontaine for President
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73. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 09:33 Bob Bobsen
Yeah, I guess you got the point hardcorpsmylittewhiteass. The point is dick cheese, half the people don't give a shit and the other half are voting against the other side and when all is said and done its the woefully dated electorial college that makes the decsion for you. And I would lay-off the slurpees if I were you you are overweight enough as it is.
So while I sleep soundly tonight, perhaps you will get your chance to die for corporate America, that is to say if you had the guts enough to enlist (which I doubt). Because, that is what you would be dying for. Not freedom, or any of those things that were noble enough in the past, nope, now its things like McDonald's and 7-11, Coke and Marlboro. Die, so they might spread that wonderous 'culture' throughout the world unhinderd by anything and anyone. And while you're at it increase the ammount of aid to Isreal to say, 1 or 2 trillion, ok?

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72. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 07:20 hardcorps1775
***yaaaaaaawwwwwwwnnnnnn***that's right, bobbing bob, we're not a democracy, we're a dictatorship. we're all enslaved peons with no rights, no freedoms. thank god we have your towering intellect to show us the error of our ways. now, please, would you check out your slurpee machine? i think it needs more syrup...

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71. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 06:05 Bob Bobsen
Quoting CNN? Who is fucking stupid now?
I stand corrected, after researching the numbers are as follows:
In the 2000 presidential election of the 207 million citizens of voting age, only 105 million voted - meaning 102 million people did not make the effort to vote.
Hmm, my math makes that around 50% not the 75% you quoted dickwad. So we were both wrong. But the facts speak for them selves, half the people don't give a shit.

Since the right to vote is evidently meaningless to the majority of eligible voters, the myth of American democracy was further exposed.

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70. Re: Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 02:02 Nagumo2001
Well your asshole must be pretty wide as you pulled all of your stats out of it!!!

The last election had the highest voter turn out of any election to date!!! While I live in FL I won't debate the voter issue since I too think it was rigged. However to estimate 20 - 25% is pure bullshit - and your a piece of shit for soing so!!!

More than 75% (per CNN reports) of registered voters came out for this election, and stated their minds.

The real problem is with the electoral college. In the early days when the population was nearly nill we needed the electoral college. However now - we need it abolished. It does more to disenfranchise young voters than anything. People feel like they have no say, since the EC can vote for anyone they wish - regardless of popular opinion and vote!

Hence Tallahasse's steadfast opinion that they would elect Bush regardless of the populations votes (Talk about nepotism!!!)!

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69. Democracy? Oct 30, 2002, 00:56 Bob Bobsen
What complete bullshit. Out of the estimated people who were eligble to vote in the last presidental election, how many did? 25%? 20%? Fucking banana republics have a higher turn out rate. If what happened in the last election (ie the crap with Florida and the now Presidents brother 'ruling' the state in which the election was decide by a convient re-count) happened anywhere else in the world, the US would be the first to cry foul.
The sad part is, that judging by the low turn outs, noone really gives a fuck anyway about who or what is calling the shots!

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88 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 1.
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