NVIDIA and 8X AGP

NVIDIA Offer Industry's First and Only Full Family of AGP 8X GPU and Core Logic Solutions is a press release from NVIDIA announcing their support for the AGP 8X spec. Here's a bit: "Today's fast-paced 'fly-through' applications and games will see significant improvements in overall performance due to the doubled AGP 8X speed. By combining the performance and scalability of AGP8X GPU and a high performance 128MB DDR frame buffer; the GeForce4 Ti 4200 with AGP 8X GPU delivers more than two times the graphics performance of competitive products. Support for AGP 8X extends beyond the GeForce4 family of desktop GPUs and into all the motherboard designs based on NVIDIA's highly anticipated nForce2 core logic products. By featuring AGP 8X, NVIDIA's nForce2 platform processors help reduce system bottlenecks, allowing for increased system performance and stability."
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21.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 26, 2002, 20:44
21.
Re: No subject Sep 26, 2002, 20:44
Sep 26, 2002, 20:44
 
Whine, whine, whine...

Ok, ok, "always" was used to exagerate things, but it was used to illustrate the debate between ATI and Nvidia. With its more recent cards, the comparison would be versus Nvidia's raw speed and ATI's generally more robust options/features.

ATI: How is your video quality?

Nvidia: Have you seen my performance?

ATI: Where is your DVD software?

Nvidia: Have you seen my performance?

ATI: Where is your Truform technology?

Nvidia: Have you seen my performance?

ATI: Where are your output options?

Nvidia: Have you seen my performance?

ATI: How much do you cost again?

Nvidia: Have you seen my performance?

Yes, there is more to this (there always is), but it was a quick post covering a minor (for now) subject. Nvidia is known for its great performance, although there are a number of people who don't purchase Nvidia's cards because they are looking for more.

Rambling aside :D, the main point is that ATI has finally taken the performance crown and holds it by a significant margin. I am definitely a Nvidia fan boi :o, but it is going to be interesting to see what Nvidia does. The NV30 is said to be faster than the 9700, but I do question if it will be same performance difference as between my Ti4600 and the 9700. Likewise, with all the delays of the NV30, it would not take much for ATI to release a faster version of the card (10000/R350) around the time the NV30 is shipping in quantity. Finally, based upon the six-month(ish) development cycles they aim for, ATI is all that much closer to having its next card/chip/line complete.

I am not sure about your area, but the 9700s have been out for awhile around here (Santa Clara, CA) and have been available even longer online.

Still thinking ATI is evil, still jealous of the 9700 :),
Ray

Edit: Typo!
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This comment was edited on Sep 26, 21:03.
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20.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 26, 2002, 14:30
20.
Re: No subject Sep 26, 2002, 14:30
Sep 26, 2002, 14:30
 
I love folks that say things like "ATI has always been ahead in features". Sigh, before the 9700 came out, name one ATI card that had more features than a Nvidia card? And those those who deny that ATI doesn't have the worst history of driver issues, time to start reading reviews of every ATI card to hit the market. ATI has the worst driver record in history of any major graphic card manufacturers. I don't deny the 9700's proposed surpremacy, but I've yet to see the card on shelves. Let us not forget the Quake drivers that ATI puts out teehee, scaming the market

19.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 26, 2002, 13:42
19.
Re: No subject Sep 26, 2002, 13:42
Sep 26, 2002, 13:42
 
WP[d],

Have you seen the results? Read the reviews?

I am no fan of ATI, but the 9700 kills the GeForce line. As noted, I have the 4600 and I would love to have a 9700. In general, it is about 25% to 50% faster at default settings, sometimes higher. When you toss in things like FSAA and anisotropic filtering, the 9700 can be as much as two-and-a-half times the speed of my 4600.

The difference becomes even larger when you look at the more advanced games like Unreal Tournament 2003 or Doom III. Just look at the various reviews; ATI has always been ahead in features and now it is clearly the performance king.

Damn you, ATI!

Going to hold out for the NV30, then going to compare it against the 10000,
Ray

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18.
 
Re: Wait....Hold on...
Sep 26, 2002, 13:30
18.
Re: Wait....Hold on... Sep 26, 2002, 13:30
Sep 26, 2002, 13:30
 
The AGP slot is just one of many, many bottlenecks. It would be pointless to replace your current card with an 8x version of the same card. It will vary from application to application, but you should not expect more than a 5% or so performance increase.

It is really just a good thing for the future and only applicable if you were to buy a new card now, it would obviously be better to purchase the 8x card over the 4x card. Again, you are not "hurting" by having an AGP 4x card.

Noting that AGP 4x is still a bit of a non-issue,
Ray

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17.
 
Re: So, wait...
Sep 26, 2002, 13:25
17.
Re: So, wait... Sep 26, 2002, 13:25
Sep 26, 2002, 13:25
 
All the cards should (theoretically) work in an 8x AGP slot, but they will not run at AGP 8x unless you have one of the newer cards. It is just like how a AGP 4x card will run at 1x, 2x, or 4x depending upon the motherboard and settings.

There is not much of a difference in applications; this is mostly to announce that they will make 8x cards in the future, to tray and bring some press to Nvidia's cards (for high end gamers, no reason to purchase one), hype the nForce 2 boards, and to take a jab at ATI and their 8x problems.

Wanting to banish P.R.-speak from the world :o,
Ray

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16.
 
So, wait...
Sep 26, 2002, 00:24
16.
So, wait... Sep 26, 2002, 00:24
Sep 26, 2002, 00:24
 
Does this mean all cards of the Geforce4 Ti family are already AGP 8x compatible? Or do I have to wait for the compatible models to be released?

Oh the torment!!

15.
 
Re: ATI vs. NVidia
Sep 25, 2002, 22:11
15.
Re: ATI vs. NVidia Sep 25, 2002, 22:11
Sep 25, 2002, 22:11
 
I know it's hard for ATI because the many lies about driver issues. But I know someone who mentioned why NVIDIA cards are better BECAUSE OF THE DRIVERS! That the ATI could be much faster but the current drivers not support a few features even if it's in the card (both ATI/NVIDIA cards!). And I believe the guys because he's the best damn programmer in the world...

r{John Carmack}

Cheers,
H0PE

This comment was edited on Sep 25, 22:13.
14.
 
Radeon 9700
Sep 25, 2002, 21:23
14.
Radeon 9700 Sep 25, 2002, 21:23
Sep 25, 2002, 21:23
 
Thought I'd throw my two cents in.... I love my 9700! I've had a GF4Ti4600, and I won't hesitate to tell someone that the 9700 is _by far_ the better card. I can't say that I know where all of these "bad driver horror stories" are coming from for the 9700's. Of course the 8500's had several problems, but this is a completely different story.

To nVidia's credit, I never had a single problem from my GF4, either. But now that I've seen how great ATI's latest monster is, it'd take a helluva NV30 to make me switch back.

nm

13.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 25, 2002, 21:12
WarPig
 
13.
Re: No subject Sep 25, 2002, 21:12
Sep 25, 2002, 21:12
 WarPig
 
Man, I'm glad I read this discussion. I'll take you guys at your word that you've owned both a GF4 and now a 9700 - it's hard to find people who have had both. Anyway, I've been thinking of upgrading to a better vid card - mainly from a GF2 to a GF4 - and have been leery of doing it because of the infinite loop problems I've had with the GF2. Anyway, I'm now going to give a 9700 some serious thought.

Btw, what made either of you guys trade out your GF4's?

*** As usual, I could be wrong. But really, what are the odds of that happening twice? ***
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12.
 
No subject
Sep 25, 2002, 20:20
12.
No subject Sep 25, 2002, 20:20
Sep 25, 2002, 20:20
 
You guys are full of ****. I own a 9700 and upgraded from a GF4.

It irritates the hell out of me that you guys will bring the same damn driver thing up when you have NO DAMN CLUE what you are talking about. That is pure Nvidia fanboy line CRAPOLA.

My 9700 has given me NO problems I am playing all my games BEYOND faster than my old GF4. And the IQ is flat out the best ever seen.

This other crap about *optimal* whatever. more Blind fanboy garbage. nothing but the *my head is up my @$$* Nvidia party line.

If you actually use a 9700 none of you would by trying to suggest any of this meally mouthed BS. ATI already has AGP 8x. Nvidia is doing nothing but playing catch-up just like they are With the Nv30.

Spin it however you want. In the end its just a bunch of rubbish.

Pentium 4 2.4B 533 FSB
I850EMD2
512mb 40ns Rdram
Radeon 9700pro 330/330
Win Xp
The Whales name is Bob.
11.
 
Wait....Hold on...
Sep 25, 2002, 19:48
11.
Wait....Hold on... Sep 25, 2002, 19:48
Sep 25, 2002, 19:48
 
I wonder... If I get a GF4 MX 440 with 8X AGP... would I get 1.5 times the graphics performance? Errr... 2 X the performance... I cant quite figure out a joke for "2X The Performance" yet.

I have a MX 440 4X AGP... and Im pretty happy with it... for now.

10.
 
Re: A different ring to this press release
Sep 25, 2002, 18:24
10.
Re: A different ring to this press release Sep 25, 2002, 18:24
Sep 25, 2002, 18:24
 
ooooo have you ever tried an ATI board?? own an Nvidia one?? thought so. i had a ti4600 and now own an 9700.
image quality = 9700
speed = 9700
features = 9700

as for the driver issues = THERE ARE NONE. everything looks great and runs sweet. And why does no one mention the "cough" 40.41 drivers from nvidia wich are TERRIBLE?? jees just because you once heard that someone read that the 8500 drivers were bad doesnt mean they are now. get your facts straight.....

This comment was edited on Sep 25, 18:26.
9.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 25, 2002, 16:55
9.
Re: No subject Sep 25, 2002, 16:55
Sep 25, 2002, 16:55
 
I hate the way people refuse to believe that currently ATI's high end card is faster than nVidia's. Read the PCGamer review if you think the drives on the 9700 have problems or (if you actually want facts rather than some bullshit you heard 3 months ago) try the card out yourself.

Right now ATI is winning the video card race; this is not a bad thing and you have no reason to deny this.

I eat pasta!
8.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 25, 2002, 14:39
8.
Re: No subject Sep 25, 2002, 14:39
Sep 25, 2002, 14:39
 
I guess they couldn't get away with a statement like this for the 4600, because its competitive product kicks its ass =)

Maybe after ATi does a few more driver releases. And releases Linux drivers that have the same functionality that their Windows counterparts do, including things games need like Texture Compression *cough*. ATi's driver support in windows is slowly getting better. But they still have several quality control issues to address. I'm holding out on the NV30. We'll see what it's like. Then i'll either choose the ATi Radeon 9700 or it. The reason to wait for the NV30? I'll quote something Carmack recently said around Quakecon time:

"Nvidia is the first of the consumer graphics companies to firmly understand what is going to be happening with the convergence of consumer realtime and professional offline rendering. The architectural decision in the NV30 to allow full floating point precision all the way to the framebuffer and texture fetch, instead of just in internal paths, is a good example of far sighted planning. It has been obvious to me for some time how things are going to come together, but Nvidia has made moves on both the technical and company strategic fronts that are going to accelerate my timetable over my original estimations. My current work on Doom is designed around what was possible on the original Geforce, and reaches an optimal implementation on the NV30. My next generation of work is designed around what is made possible on the NV30."

It doesn't get any better than a optimal level of implementation in my mind.
This comment was edited on Sep 25, 14:41.
7.
 
Re: A different ring to this press release
Sep 25, 2002, 14:12
7.
Re: A different ring to this press release Sep 25, 2002, 14:12
Sep 25, 2002, 14:12
 
because its competitive product kicks its ass =)

Well, if the competition could make a driver more relible than a blues news update without a misinformed comment, the competition's benchmarks would reflect that it's better. By the time ATI makes relible drivers for the 9000 series, or the 8500 for that matter, Nvidia will have it's nv30 line out, with drivers that work.

6.
 
Re: A different ring to this press release
Sep 25, 2002, 14:12
6.
Re: A different ring to this press release Sep 25, 2002, 14:12
Sep 25, 2002, 14:12
 
i[because its competitive product kicks its ass =)]

Well, if the competition could make a driver more relible than a blues news update without a misinformed comment, the competition's benchmarks would reflect that it's better. By the time ATI makes relible drivers for the 9000 series, or the 8500 for that matter, Nvidia will have it's nv30 line out, with drivers that work.

5.
 
Re: uhhhh...
Sep 25, 2002, 14:05
Jim
5.
Re: uhhhh... Sep 25, 2002, 14:05
Sep 25, 2002, 14:05
Jim
 
IL-2 Sturmovik

Jim
4.
 
Re: uhhhh...
Sep 25, 2002, 13:21
4.
Re: uhhhh... Sep 25, 2002, 13:21
Sep 25, 2002, 13:21
 
What the heck are "today's fast-paced 'fly-through' applications"??

Any game by Raven Software.

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing."
-George Bernard Shaw
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3.
 
uhhhh...
Sep 25, 2002, 12:56
Tom
3.
uhhhh... Sep 25, 2002, 12:56
Sep 25, 2002, 12:56
Tom
 
What the heck are "today's fast-paced 'fly-through' applications"??

2.
 
Story of my life...
Sep 25, 2002, 12:46
2.
Story of my life... Sep 25, 2002, 12:46
Sep 25, 2002, 12:46
 
A day late and dollar short.

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