I don't have time to read all these posts. I need to go place some bets on some Rocket Arena 3 matches.

-Ronin{TUS}
"I work for Keyser Soze."
This comment was edited on Sep 10, 15:26.

I think Greece has taken the "Stupid" stereotype away from Poland. "ATTENTION PEOPLE OF POLAND...YOU ARE NOW FREE
OF STUPIDITY". what they dont know is they are stuck with
the buttf**k jokes LOL.

...Windex!

Heh..big fat greek wedding?

This comment was edited on Sep 9, 17:02.

Ahh, ok. Now I see what he was getting at. I agree the definition of the term 'gaming' is two-fold depending on the industry you're talking about.

I knew there had to be someone from Greece reading Blue's News. Thanks DareDevil for some interesting real information on this story.

*** As usual, I could be wrong. But really, what are the odds of that happening twice? ***

first off i want to apologize for my far less than mature comments over a post. i am a firm believer in freedom of speech and opinion and my comments were not called for. and yes, i do agree with you guys that people behind silly laws are ignorant and are living in the dark ages. after all is said and done, we love computer games and thats why we visit Blue right ?
any way, take care, game on, and dont let the media insult your inteligence by making you believe manipulated stories. behind EVERY story, post, etc there is both truth and lies.
i believe it was Elvis Costelo that said "yesturdays news is todays fish 'n chips paper". that said, ill see you all on another thread. hopefully for DoomIII

Peace..

Gaming is NOT illegal in Greece.

Well, just to explain the situation: all forms of gambling in general are QUITE POPULAR here in Greece. Electronic gambling received quite some public attention 6-8 months ago when a specific journalist dedicated his TV show to it. The reaction of the goverment under the pressure of the public opinion was indeed ridiculous...

The coin-op problem:
A lot of Arcade game owners, used modified illegal circuits & software to turn Arcade games (coin-ops) to gambling machines. They even used remote controls to switch between simple games like PacMan, Tetris, etc to gambling games (you could actually gamble with money)

1. People were loosing billions on these machines, goverment received no taxes over the bets either. Thousands of families destroyed...
2. The police could not possibly check all the Arcades (coin-ops) for modified circuits, since it takes time to check the actual circuit boards for modifications, requiring specialized personel & equipment
3. There are about 150,000 coin-ops here in Greece (for about 10 Millions of total population), spread all over Greece, meaning 150,000 potential gambling machines, as explained above.
3. Law is not very clear & stict enough for electronic gambling. So even when a few owners ended in court, they either managed to get away with it, or the fines imposed were ridiculous compared to their illegal earnings, meaning they could continue run their 'businesses'. Moreover, those that produce the modified circuits (or imported them), are not being prosecuted either (no law either)
4. Then came the internet gambling, which ofcourse they could not handle at all...

So as mentioned before the goverment tried mainly to ban ALL coin-ops, and secondly gambling at internet cafes.

But these are the real problems:
-The 1st real problem is that the specific ministers & other officials handling the situation actually DONT HAVE A CLUE about technology/internet/etc. If you could only hear how they were trying to justify the new laws, you'd be laughing for months...
All they care about is lost taxes from illegal gambling, and the public opinion. So it is OK to loose a fortune on a legal 'casino' (since the goverment receives the taxes), but not on illegal gambling.
-The 2nd and MOST IMPORTANT: education. Education has been taking the downhill over the last 20 years, so people dont really have any 'protection' against these things...A real TRAGEDY if you ask me.
-CORRUPTION of officials is also on of the biggest problems...
-The general economic situation of Greece: over the past 20 years income has been decreasing, and expenses are increasing. With an unemployment rate of 12%, almost everyone is looking for 'easy earnings'
- Greek politicians really live in the Stone Age, and do not give a damn about citizens. They are all dependent on 4-5 businessmen. Everyone knows about them, and noone does a thing to change the situation.

This comment was edited on Sep 8, 01:18.

Gee whiz, you mean I can take credit for the "decades" of racism and all of the horrors spread throughout our Earth? Wow...I never felt such power...I had no idea my influence went so far in the present, let alone the past and appearently the future!!!

Note: See "sarcasm" at http://www.dictionary.com

</RunOnSentence>
Thank you to those who saw that my reference was indeed towards those lawmakers whose generalistic attitude has caused the creation of a law that clamps down on yet another freedom.
<RunOnSentence/>

BTW...I'm not pimple faced.





Edit: Everyone's so pissed about this, check out the link below and you'll be furious. I cannot vouch for the accuracy of this article.

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-sept-11-legal-rights-glance0905sep05.story

This comment was edited on Sep 8, 00:57.

You mean "loser", right?

Calm the hell down, Jay.

I'm fairly sure he wasn't saying "Greek people are ignorant fucks" but more "The people who made this law are ignorant fucks, from Greece"

And can you deny that? I sure as hell cant.

Asmodeos is right. thanks to the internet, and freedom of speech, pimple faced snot nosed inbred pig lovers like him can voice their opinion freely, for people to read, and laugh at his complete ignorance and lack of all knowledge other than pulling up his Pamper Pull-ups after he goes pee pee. maybe when he grows up, and learns to read, he will see what kind of jack-ass he is. people like you are a disgrace to the US. And its because of people like you, we get a bad rep around the world. And people like you, are responsible for all racism, including clashes between black and white people a few decades ago. you see... you.. are... a... LOOSER.

Maybe we should outlaw games here. Just think...no more voilence in our society. No more cussing, fighting, lude behavior. Basically a Utopia would emerge where the USA once stood.

Oh wait. I'm not an ignorant fuck from Greece.

I did get clarification on that Greek law debate. The Minister of Finance will make an announcement clarifying the law. As cool heads here suggested, games (as we know them) were never included in the law. Got this from the Embassy in Washington, D.C.

indeed, it's pretty funny. I think it stemmed from a discussion between isolationist boneheads and, well, everyone else. This tends to happen when you bring up *any* foreign country in conversation with them... sigh

At any rate, i hope the game industry takes action on this... we have enough money to make a big stink, you know. It's ridiculous... eliminating our entire market in a country... even communist CHINA has a games industry, for **** sake!

Hah, I love the way the messages are ordered from latest to oldest. Brings a smile to my anus every time I see how far the topic has derailed.

From Greek gaming banned to U.S. consumption taxes?

Actually, Bronco, most states in the US -do- have a "consumption tax",

Yep, only five don't. Many, like my home state are based upon very arcane regulations. Most States in the US also impose property taxes on a county wide level. We are taxed just about every way possible. I was really just referring to Federal wage taxes.

And, while, no, it's not necessarily fair for the rich to pay more taxes than the poor, the -really- rich get away with paying almost nothing (relatively speaking) due to various loopholes they take advantage of (many of which aren't even avaliable if you don't have a certain amount of money already.)

ugh, now I'm defending the other side: while the ultra rich don't pay the same ration of their total income to taxes they do pay the lions share of the taxes paid in this country. That only makes sense when you look at it logically, what would you rather have, 28% of $60,000 or 5% of $5,000,000 (as you say a relatively small amount right)?

So really, there is no way to tax everyone fairly.

From what I know about human nature, most people think along the lines of, "Okay, that's a fair payment, now how can I make it so it doesn't apply to me?"

I look at it more along these lines: what services am I getting for my tax dollar? Where is all this money going? Is it being used to further programs that I believe in? Hopefully, the answer is yes most of the time.

Nothing erks me more than listening to a Seasoned Citizen complain about school taxes or some young buck yap about Social Security. They are really the same person, you know?



-TPFKAS2S

Actually, Bronco, most states in the US -do- have a "consumption tax", except it's called a sales tax, and we pay it in addition to the taxes already garnished from our wages by the State and Federal government.
And, while, no, it's not necessarily fair for the rich to pay more taxes than the poor, the -really- rich get away with paying almost nothing (relatively speaking) due to various loopholes they take advantage of (many of which aren't even avaliable if you don't have a certain amount of money already.) I don't know, I can't think of a solution that's fair from all sides- anyone who can would be an economic supra-genius. Besides, I don't think people would be really happy with a "fair" solution. From what I know about human nature, most people think along the lines of, "Okay, that's a fair payment, now how can I make it so it doesn't apply to me?"

I agree Bronco. A flat tax has problems. However, a national sales tax is the way to go.

Remember, this will rid us of the Gestapo.. I mean IRS infastructure.

http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-272.html

a flat-tax is the only just tax.

I can't believe I'm gonna argue against this...but just to be the DA.

While it sounds great to have a flat tax, there is an inherent problem with it. It has to do with the ratio of disposable income of the poor versus the rich. Obviously, the rich have a greater amount of disposable income. They earned it (or stole it in some cases ), it's theirs. When you implement a flat tax, you are trying to shift the tax burden off of the rich. The rich are already the group with the highest percentage of disposable income available to blow on whatever they choose, including investing it to get richer. What you are inadvertently doing is decreasing the percentage of disposable income of the people that already have a lower percentage. Further inhibiting them from enjoying a higher quality of life and investing to get richer. Now before you bag me here, I don't fully subscribe to either side of this argument and I do see the +/- of both.

In other words, there is no such thing as a just tax...unles you implemented a consumption tax... nah, that has real problems as well.

With respect to the UN. I do believe that for quite some time the US was delinquent in paying its dues. I think the UN is a great idea in theory. A theory that is blown when you look at some of the countries that head certain committees, take the human rights committee for example.

edit - clarity

-TPFKAS2S
This comment was edited on Sep 4, 20:58.