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  • Brave teacher stopped gun rampage is the report on a school shooting in Germany that mentions the alleged perpetrator was a Counter-Strike fan, and this has "led to calls for tighter rules on violent computer games," even though games like this are already restricted for sale to minors in that country. Thanks Andrew Dayton...

85 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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65. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 15:58 Ronin
we allow games that teach killing, how to operate a deadly weapon without a license

Have you even fired a real weapon? For the first time since my dad's single shot 22 rifle, I fired a real gun the other week. A Walther P99 40 caliber hand gun. That sucker had some kick, but I KNOW it's not anywhere near that of the guns used in these games. So how do these guns teach you how to use the weapons? It certainly doesn't factor in the kickback, much less how heavy the gun is.

"I work for Keyser Soze."
"Don't Fear the Reaper, fear ME."
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64. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 15:36 anon@161.53
Hmmmmm I dont think anyone hates America just for the sake
of hating America, i think that people outside of the US are
jealous of the semi-ignorant mentality of the average US citizen, erm semi-ignorant in the sense "what i dont know
cant hurt me" kind of thing.
Lets face it most Americans are barely aware of whats going
on in their own town or city let alone outside of their
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63. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 15:07 anon@129.118
So other countries can hate America just for the sake of hating America, but Americans can't hate other countries? Whoa, that's as hypocritical as most Christians.  
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62. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 14:40 Xombie
how can any of you argue that he would not have kiledl so many peopl wiithout the game.
The fact that there's no trustworthy statistics to back it up is a pretty good start.

he learned various tactics playing these games
So? What the hell would that have helped him do? Look for campers in the rafters of the Gym?
The only tactic he used was "point and shoot". Which he obviously would have known without the video games.

we wouldnt allow a game that taught you how to grow cocaine and acid and meth but yet we allow games that teach killing
Any 10 year old knows that bullets can kill people, without playing a game. Murder isn't a complicated process.

how to operate a deadly weapon without a license
Games don't teach you how to operate weapons. The only thing you see is possibly loading the gun and arming it. Any retard knows how to do this, without games.

and camoflauge tactics that can be used to perhaps kill more victims
Camofla-.... you have GOT to be kidding me. What the HELL kind of camoflage tactics would he use in a goddamn school building?

I strongly agree that this types of games should not be sold to minors under 21.
They already aren't. Minors are people 17 and younger. They aren't allowed to buy M rated games.

Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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61. Re: Sane and reasoned... Apr 29, 2002, 14:33 Xombie
In most places it's illegal to sell M rated games to children. I know EB Games has that type of policy.
But it's really rather irrelevant, as most kids get their games from their parents.
This comment was edited on Apr 29, 14:34.
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
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60. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 12:48 anon@216.221
Heh, that's actually really fascinating, thanks for sharing that. It really makes you think, eh? But that's sort of the premise behind why I think adults should be allowed to bear arms. Sure, you might get the first shot off, but unless you're in a private area, someone's going to take you down pretty quick. Burglars know there's a much greater risk to breaking into someone's house, etc.  
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59. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 11:31 Schnapple
eliminate gun control completely, so everyone can arm themselves

Actually when I was in high school (before the school shootings started - I probably couldn't have gotten away with this today) I did a "Modest Proposal" like this. A Modest Proposal was an old essay where someone suggested the way to solve overpopulation/lack of food was to eat babies. It was a radical, horrible and sadly effective solution to a problem, presented as such for shock value and to grab attention (oddly enough, it sounds like the movie Soylent Green). We were to make up our own Modest Proposals.

My Modest Proposal was this - arm every man, woman and child with a gun. Everyone has guns. The caveat? Only one bullet. Do whatever you want with your one bullet. Kill that boss you don't like, make your divorce go quicker, take your own stupid life. But you never get another bullet. Your gun can't fire someone else's bullet (and of course you can't fire someone else's gun), so no killing someone to take their bullet. Want to rob a convenience store? Sure, but that clerk may still have his bullet. Try to unload in a classroom and the odds of somsone in there with their bullet intact is pretty good.

The teacher loved it. Not sure if she would today but she did back then. I didn't really have a "point" save for the idea that perhaps bullets and attitude were the real problem - the guns were fine.

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58. Re: Sane and reasoned... Apr 29, 2002, 10:49 anon@62.246
I know what you mean about SOF... I like shooters. they are most fun with ppl you know, since you know they dont have any aggressions faced toward you and you can laugh with them at your own or their own VIRTUAL deaths. I dont mind if a game has much gore or not. but I find it a bit funny if someone explodes in a fountain of blood and guts (unrealistic of course) but when I saw SOF (and SOF2) I really got scared how realistic the wounds were. like blasted off arms and you can see the bone, flesh etc hanging out of the left-over arm on the torso. Im 25 and if kids of 12 to 18 can get this game and LOVE it and LOVE the gore... well I dont know... I agree such games should only be available to mature ppl.  
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57. Re: What will you do? Apr 29, 2002, 10:42 anon@62.246
schnapple: abolutly true. we gotta accept our aggressions. we cant make them vanish (not yet at least) and so we have to design our world AROUND these aggressions. so that they wont be fed and escalate. we cant blame weapons, nor games nor movies. IF we can blame anything its the system itself or the people, but in most cases the ppl are driven by the system.  
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56. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 10:20 anon@216.221
...arming children is NOT the answer.

Of COURSE not, I wasn't talking about children. Perhaps I should've made that more clear, but I didn't think anyone would think I was saying it was a good idea to arm kids.
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55. Re: Sane and reasoned... Apr 29, 2002, 09:58 anon@212.73
Well said Eon.

A thought just occured to me.... Why is it that so many people get a kick out of shooting the crap out of other people? Even though it is virtual, it strikes me as a bit odd. Seems like people just get a kick out of violence. Movies and games are getting more violent by the day, everytime a new FPS is released there's always a mention of much (or how little, damnit!) gore is in it.

That just seems a bit twisted to me. I remember playing SOF1 stoned out of my brain and being somewhat repulsed by the gore that was displayed. I was stuned that it was deemed "acceptable" by so many people.

Maybe I'm just a goody two shoes, or a wimp or what have you, but it just seems to me that the whole fucked-up-ness of this world we live in is not with the products themselves (be it games or movies or whatever). Those are market driven, if something doesn't sell, the producers will stop making it, so as long as they have a market the products will exist.

For crying outloud, a Headshot is something to gloat about, shooting your friends is FUN, and Deathmatch is a game!!!

Think about it for a second, that IS fucked up!


Jack Luminous
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54. Sane and reasoned... Apr 29, 2002, 09:16 Eon
If you arm everybody then, basically, you'll evolve a more polite and orderly society - because everyone knows that social conventions like queueing, noise abatement and prohibitions on agressive begging, are now enforced not only by the rather abstract concepts of law and morality but rather by the power of the gun.

On the other hand you've got a lot of people who are just about sane and rational enough to share a street with us, but who are in no way sane enough to own a gun. Then you have those who say that civilians have better things to be doing with their time than constantly learning how to shoot - omniarms societies reward those with the most spare time to practice.

In addition you'd get situations where life was taken, where really it wouldn't have been if no guns were involved. And I'm not sobbing for felons who might have met the 9mm of justice, but rather for victims who were preemptively slain because the robber or mugger knew there was a good chance that the civvie was packing, or because the civvie made a move for his piece and got wasted.

In this gun shooting, imagine you're cast into a school gone mad, and all you know is that a gunman is shooting students and faculty members. Now imagine that half the student body is packing heat! Carnage would ensue as freaked out youngsters started waving firearms around. How many incidental skirmishes would there be - and how many kids might be killed by cops walking into such a confused and fluid situation?

People have the right to something better.


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53. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 08:31 Hyatus
"I'll tell you what... eliminate gun control completely, so everyone can arm themselves, and this sort of thing would be a lot harder to pull off."

Oh...gee...unless the sadistic killer is suicidal...and come
on. There's a BIG difference between shooting a target and
shooting a human. I doubt many kids would put their lives
on the line to attack the psycho. Most would be too busy
running FROM the psychotic gunman. Plus, when you're
running, it's a lot harder to stop by your locker and pick
up your 'GAT.'

This kinda crap might work with adults(and MAN do I stress
the word MIGHT), but arming children is NOT the answer.

"da da da"

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52. What will you do? Apr 29, 2002, 08:15 Schnapple
What will you do when you get rid of all of the violence in video games, in books, in movies, in television shows, and in the media itself, and the violence in the world does not go away. There was violence before there were video games. There was violence before there were television shows. There was violence before there were movies. I'm no Theology major, but there was violence in the Bible, meaning that violence predates books.

The media is violent because the media mirrors culture. There really are terrorists out there and there really are anti-terrorists out there, hence Counter-Strike, where you are not always the bas guy, mirrors that fact. Now, however, in a chicken/egg twist, the culture is blaming the violence on the media. It doesn't/can't work that way.

And if you do want to play that game - the one that says that this and other incidents would have never happened had video games such as these never existed, let's apply the Learned Hand principle. Millions upon millions of people around the world enjoy these games and harm no one with them, and every once in a great while a handful of people are killed when someone who already has a great deal of pain and drama in their lives unloads in a school somewhere. Sounds like pretty good odds to me. If you were a car manufacturer and a flaw in your automobile killed one family of four but was extremely unlikely to kill another family, the court would not make you recall the car (the price of the fix outweighs the cost of the damage).

Restrict the games, they're already headed that way. Enforce age limits - these games are made for us adults anway. But you'll never stop the games. The movies Ocean's 11 and Payback (for example) glorified criminals and everyone enjoyed them. Grand Theft Auto 3 did the same thing and people were appalled. Get real. Games are going nowhere, violent games will always get made, and violence will never go away.

The "calls for tighter rules on violent computer games" are made by the parents of those children that are killed. We have this vast misconception that if your child is harmed in a horrific turn of events that you are endowed with some clear insight into how to fix the world. This is sinply not true, your viewpoint is simply blinded by rage and no one wants to tell you differently out of sympathy.

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51. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 08:01 anon@208.180
Unless you live in a Nazi thought-police country, like germany...
holy shit that was rude...

Perhaps he meant Germany in WWII...
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50. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 07:42 anon@216.221
Heh, well you're not going to get me to blame games OR gun clubs. They're not the problem. I'll tell you what... eliminate gun control completely, so everyone can arm themselves, and this sort of thing would be a lot harder to pull off.

So many people seem to think that if everyone would be allowed to bear arms, the world would go to hell and we'd shoot each other to extinction. Studies show that violence goes DOWN when everyone is armed. Why? Because someone's a lot less likely to attack your or rob you or shoot you when they know you just might shoot back. They've actually tried this out somewhere in the U.S. (I don't recall where), and crime went down across the board.
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49. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 07:29 anon@62.104
well said, Eon.  
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48. Don't You Just Love The Media? Apr 29, 2002, 07:11 anon@144.178
"The failed student was a gun club marksman who used his training to shoot many of his 16 victims -- 13 teachers, two pupils and a police officer -- in the head at close range."

I use my Grand Prix training to park my car in the garage.

"He was also carrying a legally owned pump-action shotgun"

Schoolkids in Germany are allowed to own pump-action shotguns?
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47. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 05:03 Eon
Once again a psychologically disturbed person has access to firearms and goes on a killing spree.

Once again the government leaps in and blames Counterstrike.

Guy was a fucking member of a gun club for godsakes. I guess the problem here is that some politicians are members of gun clubs, but no politicians play Counterstrike.

I'm afraid we'll just have to wait for all the old men to leave power.


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46. Re: well Apr 29, 2002, 04:53 anon@208.180
just another reason computer games should be banned altogether. i mean wtf do you need games for when you linux oops i thought was at slashdotcom  
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85 Replies. 5 pages. Viewing page 2.
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