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Renegade Demo Lag Revisited

A new post on the official Command & Conquer Renegade forums by community manager Cliff Hicks has another update on the lag problems experienced with the recent multiplayer demo. Word is they "have located the major problem causing severe lag and are working to rectify it as fast as we can," and "In addition to addressing the lag issue, we're going to also adjust a few more settings which will allow you to again host non-dedicated servers." A release timeframe for this next patch is not yet available. Thanks DryHump for the tip. And in related news, there's another Command & Conquer Renegade Q&A on, talking to Westwood's Dan Cermak about the game.

21 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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21. Re: No subject Feb 20, 2002, 16:04 lettuce
Im not sure what is being said by some of these posts. Most of them are incorrect or not being written well enough to be understood.

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20. Re: No subject Feb 20, 2002, 03:38 anon@217.121
#15, nice metaphore ;-) If people think his post is a long read try mine, #14, where I say the same in less sentences (but also less colourful =) But I can add some games to the list that didn't need patching in my experience : WarCraft, StarCraft (practically anything from Blizzard is instanlty playable), Quake1-3, Duke Nukem 3d, Shadow Warrior, UT, Unreal, Max Payne, Half-Life, Ground Control, shall I go on?

And indeed, they are quality games, and *quality* games don't NEED patching. It is indeed an INSULT if devs try to shove something unfinished down our throats, and add "Download the patch if it doesn't work on first try, you idiot". I mean, come on, that's just ****shit. A demo should always entice people to buy the game! Thus it must be as good as the finished game! The argument "it's only a demo" or "you didn't have to pay for the demo" is absolutely not valid. If the demo sucks, the game sucks, especially when the game has gone into production with the same flawed code as is the case with C&C:R and was also the case with Operation Flashpoint, to name another example. I download demos to see what a game is like before I buy it. When I like the demo, I try to play the full version for a while, and only then, if I still like it, will I buy it. Downloading a demo costs time, trying a demo which fucks up or is unplayable wastes time. And time, people, is money. There's always someone who has to pay for the bandwidth demodownloading will take. Thus, somebody actually pays for this demo from WW. You too, I don't think your ISP is free?
You see my point? I expect a demo to entertain me. If it doesn't, because it is flawed, bugged and crappy, I have wasted my time. And wasted money on my ISP. I could have downloaded another demo instead which did entertain me.

As with RA, WW have a problem with netcode. I advise them to fix that before the start anything new. This way, a once fabled software house dies.
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19. No subject Feb 19, 2002, 21:32 anon@24.95
Patches are acceptable in some cases, such as fixing slight bugs or adding features. Some problems simply can't be solved before it leaves the company. However, making a fix for the huge amount of lag should have been something that was tested and fixed. Hopefully they'll also release a patch to make the game suck less. It really disappointed me.  
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18. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 19:43 anon@24.219
To #15:

The big difference is that flaws in video games don't kill people, while flaws in cars do. That's why quality control is so lax in the entertainment software industry. Usually the worst thing that can happen when a game 'fails' is that you have to find another one to play.

I'm not excusing it, just explaining it.
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17. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 17:55 Toad
Excellent post, #15. I just hope it receives the audience it deserves.

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16. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 16:53 anon@63.67

What the hell are you talking about? Westwood made a mistake and are working to fix it. If you don't like the demo after its fixed then don't buy the game. If you like it, then but it. Why are you so bitter? Did you spend alot of money on the demo?
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15. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 14:23 anon@64.229
I'm with #13. Idiot ideas like #12's are making things ugly for all of us. It isn't at all unreasonable to expect them to get a limited version of their software out the door without bugs, since THE IDEA IS THAT IT'S SUPPOSED TO ENTICE ME INTO BUYING THEIR SHITE GAME!!!! Nothing makes me want to give my money to someone less than when they release a freakin' DEMO that needs patching! That's just incompetence and unprofessionalism. Then they deny their own culpability and attempt to put the blame on the user! That's just insulting.

You might give your money to a car manufacturer who hadn't bothered to round-off the wheels on their new model before you took it for a test drive, but I doubt it. Consider this scenario: if, after testing said car, you hopped out and said, "Wow! Four years in development, and it doesn't actually *drive* yet. Have you thought about maybe rounding off the wheels?" You might be surprised to get the response "listen, Douchebag. We're the professionals around here, and it's not our square tires. If you're having trouble driving our car, it's because you're too fat and ugly to drive our car and we've installed this little warning light here to clear up any mistakes you may have made in attempting to drive our glorious, flawless car. If this thingy here lights up, you'll have to find someone a little less fat and ugly to drive you around, mmmmmkay?" "But my wife is a super-hot bikini model", you reply. "She never has any trouble driving other cars, and your warning light stays on the whole time. Did you guys ever try driving this car yourselves? It really sucks ass! Especially with those weirdo square tires on it..." Behind you, a line is forming of annoyed bikini-model husbands who nod their agreement. Also, some bikini-models can be seen over to the left and they are plenty pissed. "Hmmm, you're still here are you? Yes... Well after some consideration, we have concluded that - four years of development and a team of experts notwithstanding - the car won't handle as expected with square tires on it. It seems as though *sir's* recent problems with fatness and ugliness are, in fact, a result of our rabid desire to relieve *sir* of *sir's* monies as quickly as possible by rushing this car to market; in some isolated instances involving virtually everyone who showed up for a test-drive, our use of square tires did actually prevent the car from driving after all. If *sir* is still experiencing difficulties with fatness, ugliness, and occasional flatulence, then perhaps *sir* would care to deploy our round-tire installer. The full-retail version of the car will also employ our revolutionary new square tire concept, since production is already underway and it would be costly to tell our factory to stop churning out broken cars. However, *sir* will someday be able to obtain the round-tire installer at a dealership on the other side of town and enable a more robust driving experience. Also, since we had to pull the seats out of there to get the engine to turn over, we are considering - at some point - putting them back in, since it appears that many of our customers like to sit in the car while they drive it. Crazy." Everyone leaves, taking their business elsewhere. Outside, the village idiot is doing the more-money-than-brains dance: "What a bunch of morons! When was the last time you bought a car and didn't need to put round tires on it? hmmmm? Never, yeah that is right, never..."

Oh, and on the topic of games I've bought but never patched: Medal of Honor is the most recent that comes to mind (yes, I realize there's a patch, but who wants GSA? Not patched). The Longest Journey - no patch, no bugs (at least not here in North America). Grim Fandango: bought it, never had to patch it. OOOh, Oni!! Played it ten bazillion times, all without the help of a patch! Hey wow - four killer games in that list, all sharing one thing in common: QUALITY, dipshit. We don't tolerate Ford telling us that the rear bumper on a Pinto contained an undocumented "explosion" feature, so why should we let game devs get away with this kind of nonsense?
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14. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 13:48 anon@217.121
#12 : Thanks for that nice title you gave me..."idiot".
Look I have bought lots of rocking games that simply did not need patching! And I've played a lot. Sure, there may have been the occasional patch to fix some minor bug, but most patches I downloaded added new features to a game, mostly on request by the community. Those patches were not needed right away, but well after I had played the game to the bone. To enhance gameplay even further, without the need to buy an expensive add-on. Now, if a game needs a lot of patching before it becomes playable, I quit. I mean, it simply looks bad on the developers if you buy a game and find out you'll have to download patches to be able to play correctly! This sort of rush-the-game attitude ticks me off anyway. I would have preferred if WW had waited before going gold , see how the demo would be recieved and start to work on fixing problems right after. After all matters were sufficiently fixed THEN and only THEN they should have gone gold IMHO. But it seems some gamers, in their eagerness to play a game, won't mind the frustration when they buy a game and are forced to wait for the patches to come in to be able to play their long-awaited game. Well, that's their choice, not mine. I wish those of you who stick with it a good time and perhaps I'll come back when everyone is satisfied about the gameplay. Until then, tata!
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13. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 07:37 anon@24.150
My definition of "idiot" includes people who defend the requirement of patches. Hmmmmm? Ya, that's right.  
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12. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 07:32 anon@151.203
"Beware, bad reviews will be poring in, even though the concept of the game in essence was not bad. The execution unfortunately was."

What a moron... It is a demo you idiot. When was the last itme you bought a game and didn't have to patch it? hmmmm? Never, yeah that is right, never...
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11. Re: No subject Feb 19, 2002, 06:45 anon@129.125
#6 'give credit where credit is due' ?

Ok, let's credit WW for :

1. Releasing a pathetic demo with regards to playability and netcode
2. Making a game go GOLD when the game suxx ass big time, and needs a heck of a lot of patching
3. Force the stupid GameSpy and FilePlanet shite on the respectful gamer who loathes this 'program'

The only reason they are working around the clock is because they really REALLY screwed this one up. They're just patching their asses off. This must mean they have not thoroughly tested their product at all, and they got scared by upcoming mind-boggling releases they knew they'd never beat, so quickly released an unfinished product and hoped for the best, cause it has this C&C name written all over it. The trustworthy gamer will buy it anyway. Look, if a game needs patching this much it was not finished and it was not tested through and through, and yes, I'll give full credits to WW for this blatant mistake. Beware, bad reviews will be poring in, even though the concept of the game in essence was not bad. The execution unfortunately was.
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10. Re: No subject Feb 18, 2002, 23:52 Riker
#2 - Anger management.

#7 - This is a new bug that the patch brought to us. It will be fixed in the 2nd patch.

#8 - GameSpy isn't the problem. At least, it's not responsible for the majority of problems that people are experiencing.

Avatar 6580
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9. Re: No subject Feb 18, 2002, 21:49 anon@213.187
Intense lag...  
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8. Re: No subject Feb 18, 2002, 21:48 anon@162.40
if u want to play the demo just do this!!!!!!!!!!!

1- UNINSTALL Gamespy arcade ( it's crap anyways )
2- UNINSTALL Renegade ( do custom uninstall, check everything )
3- DOWNLOAD Regcleaner( and SEARCH for RENEGADE and DELETE all Instances. ( It should find 2 )
4- Install ALL SEEING EYE ( )
5- REINSTALL Renegade ( DO NOT install Gamespy )
6- Open All Seeing Eye and find the 1.5 server option after refreshing list.
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7. Re: No subject Feb 18, 2002, 21:40 anon@64.252
I do have a question,

Is there a time limit on the MP Demo, I always get "Kicked" from the game after about 90 or 120 seconds of game play or is it due to the Intense lag that it just drops the connection outright?
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6. No subject Feb 18, 2002, 21:19 Hump
The last thing I would call Westwood is is lazy for sure

from what I gather theyve been working literally around the clock to adress the issues with the demo since it came out.

Im not a WW fanboy but give credit where credit is due

This comment was edited on Feb 18, 21:20.
Avatar 10137
"Both the “left” and the “right” pretend they have the answer, but they are mere flippers on the same thalidomide baby, and the truth is that neither side has a clue."

- Jim Goad
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5. Re: #2 Feb 18, 2002, 21:06 anon@63.67

Said it before. I'll say it again. Renegade is a great game once you get on a good server. Hopefully the next demo patch will fix the problem and more people will figure this out. Hurry up Westwood! Renegade is dying out here!
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4. Re: #2 Feb 18, 2002, 20:33 Creole Ned
Also remember that Renegade has already gone gold. What that means is the master CD is already off to duplication. Any fixes to the demo's netcode probably mean people who buy the game can expect a patch waiting for them after the game is released.

Still, it's good that they are addressing problems, at least.

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3. #2 Feb 18, 2002, 20:30 s_dubya
To answer your question, probably right around the time you showed up.

Maybe it would have been a good idea for Westwood NOT to have broadcast "it's not our code, it's not our code". Well, guess what ... it was your code. Good one.

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2. Re: No subject Feb 18, 2002, 20:25 anon@216.165
Yeah, I mean, hey, they posted the original demo for free on like, Friday, and here it is MONDAY already and they haven't already fixed it? Those lazy bastards!

Get real. They are taking care of this BEFORE shipping the retail project. So it was a poor MP release of a demo...big whoop. I'd be more pissed if the retail had shipped and I paid money to be stuck in this situation.

In the good old days gamers were the kind of people you'd hang out with even if you weren't playing games with them. When did gamers turn into such raving assholes?
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21 Replies. 2 pages. Viewing page 1.
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