More on Quake II Source Code

A post by id Software's John Carmack on Slashdot follows up on last night's release of the Quake II source code (story) with word of a few additional releases that can be expected soon. Here is the scoop:
Thanks for the kind comments, it helps me brace a bit for some of the really vile hate mail that is already starting to come in from the people worried about cheating.

Bill Heineman is preparing the mac source code for Q2 for a release.

We will see about getting the 3.21 changes we missed into an updated release.

I am also happy to say that another old game's code will be released under the GPL soon. We can always hope that it becomes a trend...

John Carmack
Update: In related news, id Software CEO Todd Hollenshead updated his .plan with a bit of information on the fees for private Quake II engine licensing, if a project based on the now public source code is not interested in releasing its own source code, as is required under the terms of the GNU GPL.
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70.
 
Sweet OpenGL
Jan 19, 2002, 14:20
anon@216.150
70.
Sweet OpenGL Jan 19, 2002, 14:20
Jan 19, 2002, 14:20
anon@216.150
 
Q2 runs very nicely in GL on many many machines, emulating when it has to and amazingly keeping a decent framerate. It is very simple graphically, very basic in functionality, but a standing example of why John Carmack's well known speech on the subject of OpenGL vs D3D applies only to John Carmack and those willing to approach the API in the same way.

OpenGL is poorly supported, or not supported, by MANY video cards, even in current OEM systems. Yet Quake 2 will run at playable speeds using practically any of them, and a dated processor, with emulated (software) enhancements. EVERY patch to the GL renderer I have seen yet from the community thus far BREAKS IT on MANY system configurations. A lot of supposed "professional OpenGL programmers" who criticize Mr. Carmack's approach are responsible for OpenGL implementations that DO NOT RUN AT ALL, HAVE MAJOR GRAPHICAL PROBLEMS and/or CAUSE OTHER SERIOUS PROBLEMS on many many system configurations.

If for no other purpose these source releases should serve as an example, especially to those who hang on every word the man speaks, of what Mr. Carmack intended by his support of the OpenGL API. Q3A also has unprecedented support for a broad range of hardware, likely using similar methods of emulation, though the processing requirements rise respectively.

I hope this post gets read by a few people, and that at least one decent programmer takes it to heart. Alas, it will more likely only generate flames.
69.
 
Ignore The Monkeys
Dec 28, 2001, 17:24
anon@24.184
69.
Ignore The Monkeys Dec 28, 2001, 17:24
Dec 28, 2001, 17:24
anon@24.184
 
ID software, you guys rock. I Didn't really read though the posts here, I just skimmed them. Just ignore the flamers who have any negitive comments. The only reason there are so many is because 1: Let's face it, the world is comprised of mostly stupid stupid people who only exist to serve french fries. and 2: Anyone who really appreciates this gift ran as fast as they could to get a pad and a pen to start taking notes. So for everyone who doesn't read this because they are too busy learning to benifit the rest of the community.... you guys f*cking rock, thanks again ID!

SniperBoB

-I got some reading to do!
68.
 
Re: On Cheating
Dec 28, 2001, 13:11
68.
Re: On Cheating Dec 28, 2001, 13:11
Dec 28, 2001, 13:11
 
How does one "steal" any Linux software???? What on
earth are you smoking, man??

And, your anti-command-line/pro-GUI attack isn't even
worthy of a response... If your mind isn't developed
enough to deal with written language, and can only deal
in pretty pictures, well then content yourself with your
play toys, and be happy; but, don't throw things and
yell at the people who are busy doing real work with our
"stoneage implements", thank you...

Avatar 1965
67.
 
Re: On Cheating
Dec 28, 2001, 12:00
anon@24.50
67.
Re: On Cheating Dec 28, 2001, 12:00
Dec 28, 2001, 12:00
anon@24.50
 
I hate to go off topic, but you make some pretty bold statements there about linux.

First of all, most of the software developed for linux is free and under opensource -- so it's kind of hard to 'steal most of their software.' Many of the apps you find in Windows have free equivelents (or better!) in linux :]

And about the commandline thing... ever heard of X? It's a graphically-enabled window system for linux, and works quite well :]

Linux is developed for running servers anyhow, so gamers normally wouldn't need to be interested in it
66.
 
Re: lol glock
Dec 28, 2001, 09:08
anon@213.122
66.
Re: lol glock Dec 28, 2001, 09:08
Dec 28, 2001, 09:08
anon@213.122
 
nah, Q2 doesn't report to Gamespy master server by default, so it's not an accurate picture. The entire Gamespy stats page is very inaccurate - download ASE and check the real stats.

At 9pm yesterday,
G3D stats (Q3) - 3300ish, 1900 servers
ASE stats (Q3) - 6900ish, 4000 servers
65.
 
On Cheating
Dec 28, 2001, 05:28
65.
On Cheating Dec 28, 2001, 05:28
Dec 28, 2001, 05:28
 
If you use to to do single player stuff, no worries! ;-)

The network code was always the worst thing about Q2 - screw it.

It's still the most solid OpenGL geometry renderer ever made. It still looks good. Sure it doesn't have all the bells and whistles, and it probably never will. But a good Quake 2 map is a thing of beauty - I personally prefer it to Q3.

The most interesting uses of this code will be in the realm of extending it - I can see someone doing a 3D landscape addition a la Team Arena. And the most imaginative things will have nothing to do with shooters - the renderer can be used for making movies - there will be big interest in changing the engine in that direction.

The engine still has a lot of life in it. Many of its limitations are artificial - put in to accomodate the Pentium II machines it was designed for.

And there are many loopholes in the GNU license. For example, you enter a gray area if you place your code in a DLL, and just distribute the modified Q2 source. Carmack might sue, though. And he just might lose under that scenario.

Personally, I think you are legally only required to distribute any original source files you may use - if you create new source files that are 100% new code, yet are still part of the compiled executable, you can keep those private. The GNU license would fall apart under that scenario if challenged in court. But that's just my opinion.

<BEGIN OPEN SOURCE/LINUX RANT>

Also personally, I think trying to sell anything made with this code as silly, anyway. Trying to sell anything that is open source is silly. You'll notice this code only became open source after all the revenue was squeezed-out of it. Carmack talks the talk, but when it comes-down to dollars, you only get his source once every real nickel has been made. This is why open source and commercial enterprise are mutually exclusive.

Open source is for hobbyists. And Linux hippies who steal most of their software, anyway. Linux sucks. So does Windows, actually, but not nearly as much as Linux. The command line is a stoneage implement, but you can't so SHIT in Linux without it.

<END RANT>

-tAE-

This comment was edited on Dec 28, 05:31.
Avatar 473
64.
 
Re: any tutorials?
Dec 28, 2001, 05:11
64.
Re: any tutorials? Dec 28, 2001, 05:11
Dec 28, 2001, 05:11
 
Files that start with "cl_" are the client - the part of the game that handles all the player-side stuff like drawing the display, selecting weapons, movement, mouse and keyboard control, etc.

Files that start with "sv_" are the server - this controls the game, both in single and multiplayer.

Files that start with "snd_" are sound system stuff.

Hope that helps. BTW, for anyone who finds the game isn't drawing the weapons models, it's something to do with the .cfg file that comes with the source. I copied my old .cfg back into the \baseq2 directory and everything is fine.

-tAE-

Avatar 473
63.
 
Quake II 3.21 update
Dec 28, 2001, 02:40
63.
Quake II 3.21 update Dec 28, 2001, 02:40
Dec 28, 2001, 02:40
 
The 3.21 source update has been released with those final unreleased bits. The release of the Quake 2 code is an incredible learning opportunity as well as a good deal for the Q2 mod community (which still exists).

62.
 
Re: documentation
Dec 27, 2001, 19:41
62.
Re: documentation Dec 27, 2001, 19:41
Dec 27, 2001, 19:41
 
The key word is "learn". The people whining would most likely rather play the game than actually create something themselves. Because that would take "imagination". They'd just rather frag and attempt to escape from their daily lives than actually contribute to the gaming world and enrich their hobby.
Safety from cheaters in an OUTDATED game is a worthy sacrifice for the ability to create brand new games from it.

This comment was edited on Dec 27, 19:44.
Xombie x0mbie x0mb|e Xombie
61.
 
documentation
Dec 27, 2001, 19:06
anon@24.162
61.
documentation Dec 27, 2001, 19:06
Dec 27, 2001, 19:06
anon@24.162
 
for all you little pussies whining about the Q2 source release, SHUT THE HELL UP!!!

"yeah, but where's the DOCUMENTATION, mwahaha, waaaaa"

you just got the f$&#(%^ source code to quake2 for FREE and you're WHINING. WTF?!!
quake2 isn't some 50 line java program for your stupid little csc class, or for some lame company where you have to explain everything you do so everyone will understand what you did b/c they can't figure it out on their own.

this is code that would only be seen by ppl who know what's goin on anyway, so why the hell would u spend months commenting every damn line?! and now it got released to the public, b/c John Carmack is just kind enough to do that, and is actually willing to share his hard work with the rest of the world, and your little pussy asses are WHINING?!

this is an absolutely free learning tool. and what tool it is! tell me, who else releases source to such breakthrough games?

if you don't like the code release, go f$&% yourself, but STOP whining about it!!! AAH!!

#52 <- damn straight!
60.
 
Free Source code... (OPEN SOURCE)...
Dec 27, 2001, 03:52
anon@203.97
60.
Free Source code... (OPEN SOURCE)... Dec 27, 2001, 03:52
Dec 27, 2001, 03:52
anon@203.97
 
Well, going by what some of the posts are saying, someone who is willing to freely distribute the code to a peice of software is trying to show off.

What is/was the creator of Linux/Unix trying to do then?

Are you saying that Microsoft are... umm... modest about their software?? have you looked in a technology magazine/newspaper or even on the TV lately??? there are images of people flying for god's sake. (sure advertising is different, but do you see Microsoft giving out their code freely??? if so, where can I get it??)

Don't get me wrong, but I feel that releasing source code to the general gaming community (and anyone else who desires to tinker with software) is a very generous gesture (in thanks for the support shown during it's shelf life) and one that should not be critisised or slammed as some individuals have.

Mark.
59.
 
Arrrrgh
Dec 27, 2001, 02:19
anon@63.161
59.
Arrrrgh Dec 27, 2001, 02:19
Dec 27, 2001, 02:19
anon@63.161
 
Jesus fucking Christ
http://www.planetquake.com/vortex/

There is your killer Quake 2 multiplayer shithead trolls. Now shut the goddam hell up. Just because it isn't popular after 4 years doesn't mean there is nothing still good about it.
58.
 
Re: any tutorials?
Dec 26, 2001, 21:34
anon@202.10
58.
Re: any tutorials? Dec 26, 2001, 21:34
Dec 26, 2001, 21:34
anon@202.10
 
<a href=http://www.quakesrc.org>QuakeSrc.org</a>
57.
 
Re: why bother?
Dec 26, 2001, 21:33
anon@202.10
57.
Re: why bother? Dec 26, 2001, 21:33
Dec 26, 2001, 21:33
anon@202.10
 
It most likely wont be Heretic2, Raven software have pretty much denied that already.
56.
 
Re: lol glock
Dec 26, 2001, 19:57
anon@64.161
56.
Re: lol glock Dec 26, 2001, 19:57
Dec 26, 2001, 19:57
anon@64.161
 
http://www.gamespy.com/stats/

Hmmm...look at that! Quake2 has been beaten, NOT ONLY by Tribes 2 but by Tribes 1 as well! What happened to your killer multiplayer application now, shithead?
55.
 
any tutorials?
Dec 26, 2001, 18:34
anon@66.32
55.
any tutorials? Dec 26, 2001, 18:34
Dec 26, 2001, 18:34
anon@66.32
 
is there any tutorial sites where it can help me understand all this 30+ .c files? The structures and etc... is too complicated. Theres gotta be atleast a diagram of what they do.
54.
 
Re: thankyou john
Dec 26, 2001, 17:41
anon@209.83
54.
Re: thankyou john Dec 26, 2001, 17:41
Dec 26, 2001, 17:41
anon@209.83
 
I actually think it's great that Carmack does this for the community. Really, I do prefer the Unreal Engine, but where did they get all their ideas? From Carmack of course. I think it's just human nature for people to find something to complain about...
53.
 
thankyou john
Dec 26, 2001, 17:09
anon@195.92
53.
thankyou john Dec 26, 2001, 17:09
Dec 26, 2001, 17:09
anon@195.92
 
a few things..

1. given that DOOM 3 isnt ready yet it stands to reason that its a tech demo.

2. you dont need this source release to make a MOD so the 'no documentation' crew can relax and stick to moaning about there being no docs for the .dll source.

3. oh, and if you spent a couple of years writing a revolutionary graphics engine which STILL makes most modern efforts look shabby would you release the source to the public? - no? didnt think so. JC and ID should be commended for their generosity not abused by thicky lamer tw@ts with nothing better to do than scratch their nuts and complain about their christmas presents.

4. do we reckon theres any chance of the commander keen source being released? - ive still got a DOS box under my desk.

no offence like...

mrjohn
- oh and ive forgot my login in case i get accused of posting anon to avoid a fight.
52.
 
Re: No subject
Dec 26, 2001, 16:35
52.
Re: No subject Dec 26, 2001, 16:35
Dec 26, 2001, 16:35
 
SHUT UP!

The man just handed us the source code for a mega-hit game, that STILL sells for ten grand per license, and you bitch because he didn't spend three weeks teaching you to program.

I'll bet if you won the lottery, you'd bitch because they didn't mail the check to you.

-tAE-

Avatar 473
51.
 
Re: why bother?
Dec 26, 2001, 14:28
anon@62.7
51.
Re: why bother? Dec 26, 2001, 14:28
Dec 26, 2001, 14:28
anon@62.7
 
Heretic and Hexen source codes were released after Quake - maybe the next release he's talking about is Heretic II (which no one has mentioned).
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