Slick wrote on Jul 5, 2025, 02:25:

There were fucking contractors working there for 3 FUCKING YEARS!!!!!

I'm talking NO paid time off, no benefits, no healthcare options... 40 hour weeks, same job as the full-time employees, but they just get shafted as "contractors".

Then FINALLY they get a whopping 10 days of PTO, and a SIZABLE bump from "fast-food" to a living wage on July 1st, after 2 years of fighting.

And the next day they're ALL FIRED.

This was the exact same playbook at AT&T with CWA.

Bottom line is if a company doesn't value its workers, you can't force it too.

Why anyone thinks this is a surprise is beyond me.

Slick wrote on Jul 5, 2025, 02:25:
As part of that union, I can say that they fought like hell for 2 years, but it was always David V Goliath. There were just certain things that the MSFT lawyers would never budge on.

And as fucked as it is, and it IS fucked. The legal language we signed allowed for this shit to happen.

2 years of fighting, and we all FINALLY got our raises, new job titles, benefits on July 1st. Only July 2nd over 100 of us in the union were shitcanned.

There were fucking contractors working there for 3 FUCKING YEARS!!!!!

I'm talking NO paid time off, no benefits, no healthcare options... 40 hour weeks, same job as the full-time employees, but they just get shafted as "contractors".

Then FINALLY they get a whopping 10 days of PTO, and a SIZABLE bump from "fast-food" to a living wage on July 1st, after 2 years of fighting.

And the next day they're ALL FIRED.

This is why Unions are not the end-all-be-all for employees. In the game industry, you absolutely NEED to be in a union because not being in one is 10 times worse, but you can still be mistreated by your employer. They just have to be a little sneakier about it. I was in a union job since 2000 up until 2020. At best they are a necessary evil.

The only family I know that owns an XBox has a Dad who is not very clued in to video games. His kids play on PC. Everyone else uses PC, Playstation or Switch 1/2.

Anything you can get on XBox, you can likely get on one or more of those platforms. The latter two both have exclusives you can't get anywhere else (especially Nintendo).

So XBox is kinda irrelevant at this point. There's no reason to buy one or invest in their gaming library.

Slick wrote on Jul 5, 2025, 02:25:
As part of that union, I can say that they fought like hell for 2 years, but it was always David V Goliath. There were just certain things that the MSFT lawyers would never budge on.

And as fucked as it is, and it IS fucked. The legal language we signed allowed for this shit to happen.

2 years of fighting, and we all FINALLY got our raises, new job titles, benefits on July 1st. Only July 2nd over 100 of us in the union were shitcanned.

There were fucking contractors working there for 3 FUCKING YEARS!!!!!

I'm talking NO paid time off, no benefits, no healthcare options... 40 hour weeks, same job as the full-time employees, but they just get shafted as "contractors".

Then FINALLY they get a whopping 10 days of PTO, and a SIZABLE bump from "fast-food" to a living wage on July 1st, after 2 years of fighting.

And the next day they're ALL FIRED.

Sad to see after all these years that game companies are still doing this crap. The worst part is still the disparity between how the workers and management are viewed and treated. The (very) few times when management takes the blame then leaves a company always seem to be the ones who shouldn't be leaving. This only makes all the bad managers feel vindicated that they weren't the problem with a game's poor performance so the vicious cycle continues.

As part of that union, I can say that they fought like hell for 2 years, but it was always David V Goliath. There were just certain things that the MSFT lawyers would never budge on.

And as fucked as it is, and it IS fucked. The legal language we signed allowed for this shit to happen.

2 years of fighting, and we all FINALLY got our raises, new job titles, benefits on July 1st. Only July 2nd over 100 of us in the union were shitcanned.

There were fucking contractors working there for 3 FUCKING YEARS!!!!!

I'm talking NO paid time off, no benefits, no healthcare options... 40 hour weeks, same job as the full-time employees, but they just get shafted as "contractors".

Then FINALLY they get a whopping 10 days of PTO, and a SIZABLE bump from "fast-food" to a living wage on July 1st, after 2 years of fighting.

And the next day they're ALL FIRED.

So... buy MSFT?

Jivaro wrote on Jul 4, 2025, 12:28:
MS's year so far...
... Microsoft returned $9.7 billion to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases

A lot of the "shareholder" returns went right into executive pockets. Some of that is deserved--Microsoft has done pretty well recently.

A better company that cared more about its workers might have "invested" in improving efficiency by spending more on the workers who are laid off. Imagine MS had said they were laying off thousands of people, but they would all get 2 years severance pay and benefits, plus opening a $100 million center for job assistance, counseling, and retraining, etc. Lots of these employees thought they had a great long-term career and made huge changes (like house buying) accordingly. Treating them well should make it easier to get new top talents.

The house that Bill built. I'll never forget nor forgive what they did to Netscape and by proxy the WWW itself.

I think they are pretty much throwing in the towel on trying to win the gaming console wars with this move. Sony is out here spending billions on all the wrong ideas but they are at least still trying to improve. Meanwhile M$ with some ungodly more times the amount of money than Sony has wants to save a few million because they just suck and don't want to play ball anymore.

"Our agentic AI tools can replace all of those workers, so we will become much more profitable in the long-term"

Jivaro wrote on Jul 4, 2025, 12:28:
MS's year so far...
Approximately 1% of staff in January let go.
On January 29th of this year, MS released their Q2 numbers, $69.6 billion, a 12% increase year-over-year.
then....
Microsoft announced its Q3 2025 earnings report on April 30, 2025.
Revenue of $70.1 billion, a 13% increase year-over-year, and Earnings Per Share (EPS) of $3.46, exceeding analyst expectations. Net income reached $25.8 billion, an 18% increase year-over-year. Microsoft Cloud revenue totaled $42.4 billion, showing 20% growth. Commercial bookings rose 18%
Microsoft returned $9.7 billion to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases
Around 6,000 employees were let go in May.
About 305 positions in June were eliminated. Some people let go, some moved.
A recent round of around 9,000 job cuts was announced for July.
Add in studios like Avalanche and Romero, where cutting the investment led to those companies laying people off as well.


It's just evil.

You forgot an important bullet point because they MIGHT at least BEGIN to have a point if gaming was in serious trouble but... (same Q2 financials):

Xbox content and services revenue increased 8% (up 9% in constant currency)

^ So, albeit more moderate than other divisions, even gaming was trending UP and not down.

They have no excuse. They're just the same ol' greedy fucks they have always been and always will be...

phinn wrote on Jul 4, 2025, 14:22:
Microsoft is a business. It’s a shame this happened but their gaming division has been a joke this gen. Let’s not pretend the CWA union doesn’t have a conflict of interest here from reduction in income they get from their member’s paychecks.

This is literally the only thing the CWA cares about, and I'm generally a pro-union guy, but my experience with them over 15 years was so *god-fucking-awful*.....they did nothing to raise our wages beyond a completely trivial amount in July each year that you didn't see until August, and it was immediately turned into higher insurance costs that ate that "raise" YEAR...AFTER YEAR....AFTER YEAR..... and any time they did intervene in employee discipline? It was always to save the assholes walking around the office with their mouths open instead of doing their actual job of answering phones. I literally saw someone get in a manager's face, threaten physical violence with 30 people watching nearby, and that guy *kept his job*........ ponder that.

Microsoft is a business. It’s a shame this happened but their gaming division has been a joke this gen. Let’s not pretend the CWA union doesn’t have a conflict of interest here from reduction in income they get from their member’s paychecks.

The golden age of keeping good workers is gone. The age of the CEO appeasing the investor is here.

Which is why Sears/Hudson Bay/Toys R Us are all gone.

Jivaro wrote on Jul 4, 2025, 12:28:
It's just evil.

AKA Business as usual.

MS's year so far...
Approximately 1% of staff in January let go.
On January 29th of this year, MS released their Q2 numbers, $69.6 billion, a 12% increase year-over-year.
then....
Microsoft announced its Q3 2025 earnings report on April 30, 2025.
Revenue of $70.1 billion, a 13% increase year-over-year, and Earnings Per Share (EPS) of $3.46, exceeding analyst expectations. Net income reached $25.8 billion, an 18% increase year-over-year. Microsoft Cloud revenue totaled $42.4 billion, showing 20% growth. Commercial bookings rose 18%
Microsoft returned $9.7 billion to shareholders through dividends and share repurchases
Around 6,000 employees were let go in May.
About 305 positions in June were eliminated. Some people let go, some moved.
A recent round of around 9,000 job cuts was announced for July.
Add in studios like Avalanche and Romero, where cutting the investment led to those companies laying people off as well.


It's just evil.