More on the WTC Disaster (Updated) [Sep 11, 2001, 9:30 pm ET] – Share – Viewing Comments
Of course this is not game related (we do not expect to be doing any further
game coverage today), but with the legit news sites being almost impossible to
access at times today, we've been getting loads of requests for more information
about what's been going on. Here is the latest as of about 9:00 PM EDT:
- President Bush addressed the nation 8:30 PM EDT. Here's a wire report: WASHINGTON (AP) - A grim-faced President Bush condemned ghastly attacks in Washington and New York on Tuesday and vowed to "find those responsible and bring them to justice." In the second Oval Office address of his presidency, Bush said the United States would retaliate against ``those behind these evil acts,'' and any country that harbors them.
To recap:
- In two separate attacks, hijacked planes struck both main towers of the World Trade Center in Manhattan this morning, and both of the "twin towers" subsequently collapsed.
- A hijacked plane struck the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. and part of it has collapsed as well.
- A hijacked plane crashed in western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. Reports indicate the hijackers planned to crash this plane into Camp David in Maryland.
- 47 Story WTC building seven, one of the five (relatively) smaller buildings in the World Trade Center also later collapsed from ancillary damage.
- The White House, the Pentagon, and the Capitol Building were all evacuated, all domestic flights in the US have been grounded through at least noon tomorrow.
- Other closings include most federal offices, the stock markets, the Disney theme parks, and the cancellation of today's Major League Baseball schedule. The President's speech announced that all federal agencies will be open for business tomorrow.
- Broadcasts out of Afghanistan showed evidence of missile attacks and antiaircraft fire, but what connection this has to today's apparent terrorist attacks in the US is not clear at this point. The US has denied involvement in these attacks.
- In the first hints of any sort at the scope of casualties, the New York City Fire Department has estimated that as many as half of the 400 firefighters dispatched to the scene are missing. CNN has said that 78 Police officers are missing. Also, the death toll from those on the four hijacked planes has been placed at 266. The number of dead and injured at the Pentagon has been widely reported as about 100. No estimates of the number of victims from the World Trade Center have been made.
- People throughout the United States have are being urged to donate blood to help offset significant shortages in New York and Washington. The American Red Cross in Greater New York or the American Red Cross are places to contact about donating blood or money, or both.
- Some news sites seem to be back online. Here are some links that have been more reliable: CNN.com; CNET.com; Yahoo; The New York Times; washingtonpost.com; usnews.com; ABCNEWS.com; FOXNews.com; MSNBC; and BBC News Online.
All of our thoughts go out to the victims of these attacks and their families and friends in what must be an incredibly difficult time.
You are absolutely right. " ...saying i don't care why you are upset but you hurt me so i'll slap you is equally unsustainable. It *does* matter why people are upset." Whoever did this had their reasons, and that can't be disputed.
Other posts have commented that America should make no move to actively wage a war against our enemies, "that we should maintain the moral high ground". In my opinion, that is exactly what will cause America to be destroyed in a nuclear firestorm. The best defense is a good offense. It's an old cliche, but it is accurate to the nth degree. The Roman Empire lasted for over a thousand years because they had the strongest army in the world, and they weren't afraid to use. The moral structures of the world have changed considerably since then, and it is generally unacceptable for one nation to invade another with the idea of conquest. Self defense is not conquest. Pre-emptive self defense is not conquest. Pre-emptive self defense is exactly that: defending ourselves against a threat before they have any more opportunities to harm us.
As I said before, I don't know who is in the Right here. I think perhaps that America does need to reevaluate our foreign policies regarding the mideast. But that need now lies secondary to a need to defend ourselves. And that defense can ONLY come through a strong offense. By hunting our enemies down and killing them. We can't simply say "Look, we stopped doing what you don't like, don't bomb us anymore please." It does NOT work that way. First, they won't stop until they're dead. They've already shown us that. Second, see the first point. I can't stress it enough. Beating up someone at school because you *think* he might be a bully isn't the right thing to do. Beating up someone that has killed countless thousands of our mothers, brothers, fathers, sisters, children, and friends is the ONLY thing left for us to do.
Maybe we brought this on ourselves. But whatever retaliation is made is equally warranted. "Proportional response"? It is an ideal that is simply not practical. Say you poke my eye out because you don't like the way I look, or the way I talk, or my opinions on anything. Should I poke your eye out? No. I should kill you. Why? Because by your actions you have indicated that you are willing to do great damage to people, and are a danger to myself and others. Call me any name you want and disagree to your hearts content. Perhaps I'll stop and think about what caused you to say it. If I don't change my behaviour, after consistant requests, perhaps the only step left is for you to poke my eye out. So be it. But if you attack me, I am going to defend myself. It's not a matter of who's right anymore. It's a matter of survival. If you're using a knife, I am going to use my gun. If you're using a gun, I am going to use my gun first. If you're using car bombs and hijacked airplanes, take a wild guess what I'm going to use.
This could very well be the end of America. But we won't walk quietly into the hereafter, and you can be damned sure we won't go alone.
Other posts have commented that America should make no move to actively wage a war against our enemies, "that we should maintain the moral high ground". In my opinion, that is exactly what will cause America to be destroyed in a nuclear firestorm. The best defense is a good offense. It's an old cliche, but it is accurate to the nth degree. The Roman Empire lasted for over a thousand years because they had the strongest army in the world, and they weren't afraid to use. The moral structures of the world have changed considerably since then, and it is generally unacceptable for one nation to invade another with the idea of conquest. Self defense is not conquest. Pre-emptive self defense is not conquest. Pre-emptive self defense is exactly that: defending ourselves against a threat before they have any more opportunities to harm us.
As I said before, I don't know who is in the Right here. I think perhaps that America does need to reevaluate our foreign policies regarding the mideast. But that need now lies secondary to a need to defend ourselves. And that defense can ONLY come through a strong offense. By hunting our enemies down and killing them. We can't simply say "Look, we stopped doing what you don't like, don't bomb us anymore please." It does NOT work that way. First, they won't stop until they're dead. They've already shown us that. Second, see the first point. I can't stress it enough. Beating up someone at school because you *think* he might be a bully isn't the right thing to do. Beating up someone that has killed countless thousands of our mothers, brothers, fathers, sisters, children, and friends is the ONLY thing left for us to do.
Maybe we brought this on ourselves. But whatever retaliation is made is equally warranted. "Proportional response"? It is an ideal that is simply not practical. Say you poke my eye out because you don't like the way I look, or the way I talk, or my opinions on anything. Should I poke your eye out? No. I should kill you. Why? Because by your actions you have indicated that you are willing to do great damage to people, and are a danger to myself and others. Call me any name you want and disagree to your hearts content. Perhaps I'll stop and think about what caused you to say it. If I don't change my behaviour, after consistant requests, perhaps the only step left is for you to poke my eye out. So be it. But if you attack me, I am going to defend myself. It's not a matter of who's right anymore. It's a matter of survival. If you're using a knife, I am going to use my gun. If you're using a gun, I am going to use my gun first. If you're using car bombs and hijacked airplanes, take a wild guess what I'm going to use.
This could very well be the end of America. But we won't walk quietly into the hereafter, and you can be damned sure we won't go alone.
Date
Subject
Author
502.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
Re: A rational call for carpet bombing.
anon@64.154
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