More on the WTC Disaster (Updated)

Of course this is not game related (we do not expect to be doing any further game coverage today), but with the legit news sites being almost impossible to access at times today, we've been getting loads of requests for more information about what's been going on. Here is the latest as of about 9:00 PM EDT:

  • President Bush addressed the nation 8:30 PM EDT. Here's a wire report: WASHINGTON (AP) - A grim-faced President Bush condemned ghastly attacks in Washington and New York on Tuesday and vowed to "find those responsible and bring them to justice." In the second Oval Office address of his presidency, Bush said the United States would retaliate against ``those behind these evil acts,'' and any country that harbors them.

To recap:

  • In two separate attacks, hijacked planes struck both main towers of the World Trade Center in Manhattan this morning, and both of the "twin towers" subsequently collapsed.
  • A hijacked plane struck the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. and part of it has collapsed as well.
  • A hijacked plane crashed in western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. Reports indicate the hijackers planned to crash this plane into Camp David in Maryland.
  • 47 Story WTC building seven, one of the five (relatively) smaller buildings in the World Trade Center also later collapsed from ancillary damage.
  • The White House, the Pentagon, and the Capitol Building were all evacuated, all domestic flights in the US have been grounded through at least noon tomorrow.
  • Other closings include most federal offices, the stock markets, the Disney theme parks, and the cancellation of today's Major League Baseball schedule. The President's speech announced that all federal agencies will be open for business tomorrow.
  • Broadcasts out of Afghanistan showed evidence of missile attacks and antiaircraft fire, but what connection this has to today's apparent terrorist attacks in the US is not clear at this point. The US has denied involvement in these attacks.
  • In the first hints of any sort at the scope of casualties, the New York City Fire Department has estimated that as many as half of the 400 firefighters dispatched to the scene are missing. CNN has said that 78 Police officers are missing. Also, the death toll from those on the four hijacked planes has been placed at 266. The number of dead and injured at the Pentagon has been widely reported as about 100. No estimates of the number of victims from the World Trade Center have been made.
  • People throughout the United States have are being urged to donate blood to help offset significant shortages in New York and Washington. The American Red Cross in Greater New York or the American Red Cross are places to contact about donating blood or money, or both.
  • Some news sites seem to be back online. Here are some links that have been more reliable: CNN.com; CNET.com; Yahoo; The New York Times; washingtonpost.com; usnews.com; ABCNEWS.com; FOXNews.com; MSNBC; and BBC News Online.

All of our thoughts go out to the victims of these attacks and their families and friends in what must be an incredibly difficult time.

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307.
 
Replies/2 cents
Sep 11, 2001, 22:52
Replies/2 cents Sep 11, 2001, 22:52
Sep 11, 2001, 22:52
 
Just responding to individual posts, trying to illustrate how I feel on this issue :-/

7. Yes, jump for joy.. We have a bull-headed president that barely made it through College. Sure, he'll listen to the military: But is that really a good thing? As you said the terrorists knew this and went ahead reguardless, would they really do this without a reason? Maybe the terrorists want the US to retaliate to make the US look more aggresive/evil in the eyes of those living in the middle east (seems obvious to me..)? We don't want to piss off the people that control 90% of the world's oil reserves and thus control whether we get to continue our extravegant American lifestyle's.

Not only that but we don't know even know if it truely was an outside job (remember Oklahoma.) For all we know it was another group of militants trying to up-route the government from within.


10. When you think about it the threat of a nuclear attack isn't really that great, everyone knows we have enough nukes to literally destroy the world and that we will use them if pushed hard enough (well, at least we're the only nation to have used them in the past.) Provoking a nuclear confrontation is not the goal of anyone, there are always basic issues at stake (Palestine's displacement for one, the Iraqi no-fly zone being anouther, and the list goes on.)


15. What exactly is cowardly about this attack? They sacrificed their lives for a cause they believed in, and they did so in a very direct manner (I'm not sure how you could get any more direct, short of trench warfare.)

Dropping a missile out of the back of a plane that's going faster than the speed of sound, now THAT's cowardly and believe it or not we do it every other day somewhere in the Middle East (of course, this isn't news so you never hear about it.)

Also, you seem to be jumping the gun here. Arafat (sp?) is as stunned as anyone else, and more apologetic than most, Osama Bin Laden allegedly doesn't have the resources for a mission this large (despite his millions,) and Saddam would have been more direct/up front about why it was done etc...

In other words it doesn't fit any of the Mid East "Players" profiles so you really shouldn't go blaming the palestinians, iraqies, or any other middle eastern organization at this time. Right now the only people you can blame are the men and women that run the United States government, without them the middle east would not even be in this volitile situation and, if they are indeed responsible, this situation could have been easily avoided.... Hell, a year ago at this time we were on the verge of peace in the middle east.


16. A war may or may not be a possiblity depending on who is responsible (Dubya's comment, made this very night, about not distinguishing between the accused and those who shelter them does make it a very real possibility though, at least in my opinion..)


18. Ok Mike, picture this. A larger, more powerful, yet utterly alien country decides that the Islamic people are the rightful owners of the western sea board, the midwest, and Alaska (just cause..) and tells you that you can either adopt their culture, religion, and form of government or you can move. You can't possibly tell me that you would just sit back, change your religion, your diet, your dress-code, and everything else that makes you you, just because a larger and wealthier nation tells you to.. But, even if you do believe that can you say the same for every single person in all of the United States? There are already militant groups throughout the U.S. which are displeased with the current government, just think what they'd do under the Islamic government!

I pose these questions because this is exactly what we (the UN) did to Palestine (maybe you already knew this, maybe you didn't) after WW2. Now do you see why they're fighting?


22. If Osama Bin Laden is in fact responsible and we do try to sieze or assassinate him then it is very likely that Afghanistan will not relinquish control peacefully. Even if they protest a little I could see Dubya over reacting and sending the troops in (his comment about not distinguishing between the accused and those who shelter them comes into play once again.)


35. I really don't think this is going to end with a Nuke dropping (unless there are further situations), even Dubya isn't that stupid (hopefully.) The reasons I don't see any nuking in our near future are many:

-The West Bank is very small and very close to Isreal, the US's allies.
-Arafat himself likely had nothing to do with this, thus, nuking his country would be like executing a witness.
-No one even knows who carried out the plot, by the time this information is found heads are likely to have cooled off.
-Dubya would not be backed by enough of America to make it worth it (politically.)
-The International community would not support such an action.

There are more reasons, but these are some of (in my opinion) the biggies.


37. The US's missiles have missed: hit schools, hospitals and other such innocent buildings. This is known as collateral damage and is considered common place in most American air strikes, missile bombardments, and other military operations, who are the cowards now (we've even coined a phrase)?


38. Smuggling a weapon onto an airplane (especially within the USA) is a very difficult thing to do, then there's the fact that each plane hi-jacked was a coast to coast flight that never made it across the coast (thus having lots of extra fuel.) The planes arrived at the WTC within very close proximity (time wise) to one another. If the 2nd plane had taken off 5 minutes earlier I'm willing to bet that the 2 WTC buildings would have gone down much faster and the casualties would have been much higher, this deep a strategy reflects a fair amount of planning, especially if those involved were foreigners (getting into the US and with a weapon, or purchasing a weapon while not a legal resident is something that is fairly hard to do.) In my opinion, there was a great deal of planning that went into this operation. Not only that but they almost definately had to teach of their men to fly (in case there were casualties.)


39. If by "political leverage" you mean pissing people off, then you're correct. The United States already have military and economic advantages, it's not a country that's short of "political leverage." It's also not short of enemies, or people willing to become enemies if provoked. Todays situation is a wonderful example of what happens when we provoke a nation a little too far. How would a missile shield prevent this kind of situation? By making people madder? Intimidating them? <sarcasm>Great plan, reverse psychology has always worked flawlessly.</sarcasm>

What I'm trying to show to you is that the US cannot make itself invincibile, it just has to understand that it has to be nice. Being nice, giving people what they want, is not nearly as difficult at preventing that which cannot be prevented. What are we defending if we become a nation whos only goal is to become invincible?


40. Please don't pretend we haven't killed just as many innocent civilians as the next guy. The United States has killed more people than any other nation or organization, and all these people weren't soldiers (kyoto, nagasaki..)


42. Osama Bin Laden does not speak english, so why would he use the english alphabet to establish an incredibly vague reason to destroy the US's economic center? His name doesn't even have the same number of characters in his language as it does in ours.


46. Perhaps the only ones that knew of the plot were on the planes and no longer have the breath to take credit for their actions. The act was terrible, but they did accomplish their goal (whatever it may be.) My guess is that they wanted to stir up the US, get them to figure out who they were, what their cause was, and thus get the greatest amount of plubicity ever concieved of :-/ .


47. Listen to yourself, you have nothing on your mind but destroying all of palestine, reguardless of the loss of civilian casualties! You're no better than the men who destroyed the WTC, in fact, I think you're far worse as you try to justify your actions as retaliation (when in fact that is no doubt why the did what they did!)


---addressed the cowardly business enough---


67. And how would you go about killing them? They're already dead, we have no idea who there leaders are, where they came from or what they look like! Are we jsut going to carpet bomb the middle east and hope those responsible were killed? What if it was an attack from within our own borders? We must be patient and extract those involved individually rather than in massive, sloppy counter-attacks.


72. So it's ok for us to carpet bomb them, killing 100's of thousands of citizens, but one of their people decides we've done a great injustice against them and retaliates and suddenly they're a criminal. What's the difference between them and us if we just hit back?





Ok, I'm too tried to read more, but I think I've covered all my opinions on the major issues of this disaster. Please, don't misunderstand me and assume I have no feeling of saddness or loss towards those who lost their loved ones today. I do not believe that whoever was responsible did the right thing, I just think that this kind of act was innevitable and that we (the US) did nothing (especially in the last year) to try and calm/correct the situation, we deserved what we got because of our hands-off policy towards the middle east (at least when it came to peace talks, bombing is a different matter entirely..)

Well, these are my views...

I eat pasta!
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            Let's not make this a witch hunt.
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anon@24.65
228.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@24.18
229.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
230.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
233.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
235.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@24.65
236.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
232.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@64.1
234.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@64.45
238.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@206.19
239.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@64.19
241.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@64.222
242.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@24.189
244.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@208.35
246.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
250.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@213.112
247.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@172.151
253.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
262.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
248.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@24.234
252.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
258.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@198.83
353.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
354.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@63.22
355.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@63.22
260.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
272.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@203.173
274.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@195.92
275.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@149.169
276.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@64.166
277.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@63.127
280.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@195.92
278.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@64.222
279.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@62.178
311.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@24.184
394.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
282.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@63.127
286.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@213.122
291.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@195.92
283.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@130.195
284.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@63.127
287.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@64.12
357.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@217.5
285.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
288.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@66.69
289.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@66.69
293.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@213.122
295.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@65.31
297.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@213.122
294.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@130.195
296.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
306.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
312.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
298.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
318.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@152.163
299.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
305.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
 307.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
Replies/2 cents
337.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@206.83
435.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
393.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@65.165
309.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
313.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@207.215
314.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
315.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
317.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.4
316.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
320.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
319.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
387.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.184
321.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@64.166
322.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@64.194
323.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
324.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@4.61
326.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@4.61
327.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@64.123
328.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
330.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
332.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
334.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@64.166
335.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@64.166
371.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@194.128
372.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@195.92
373.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@61.9
374.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@61.9
384.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.184
329.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@66.45
342.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
331.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@130.195
333.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
336.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@172.186
340.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@64.166
343.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@206.83
513.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@172.168
515.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
379.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@207.2
386.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.84
338.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@203.38
339.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
341.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
344.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
358.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@61.9
345.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@130.195
346.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.19
347.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.19
349.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@203.164
356.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@63.22
389.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
391.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@206.140
392.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
     isolation
anon@194.205
350.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
348.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
351.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
352.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
359.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.69
366.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@62.159
360.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.69
361.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@195.102
364.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@193.167
365.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.112
368.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@151.208
369.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
370.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.69
375.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@209.192
378.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
376.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@207.136
377.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@195.252
381.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@207.2
382.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@194.128
380.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@66.136
383.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@217.88
385.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
388.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@203.173
390.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@207.71
400.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@152.31
395.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@65.165
396.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@65.165
397.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
399.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@128.249
398.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@206.78
401.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@206.19
405.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@208.25
429.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@129.196
402.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@216.175
404.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.122
408.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@216.175
410.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
411.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@206.19
428.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@207.2
432.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@216.175
403.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@216.161
406.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
407.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
409.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
438.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.4
412.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.178
416.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
418.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@159.238
419.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@130.195
423.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
421.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
427.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
430.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@216.175
426.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@63.150
433.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@159.238
413.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
414.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@64.1
415.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.66
417.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@159.238
420.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.66
422.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
425.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.66
424.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@172.149
431.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@209.246
434.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@129.97
436.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
437.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
439.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.122
442.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
444.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@217.5
447.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.240
440.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.4
443.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@217.5
446.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
453.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
441.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@159.238
445.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@213.66
537.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@193.133
448.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@216.217
452.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.4
474.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@216.101
475.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@194.128
449.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@205.247
450.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@130.195
459.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
460.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
471.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@213.66
472.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@194.128
451.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.240
454.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@129.21
455.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
456.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.163
457.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@24.4
461.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@162.33
462.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
464.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@162.33
470.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@194.128
458.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
463.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.114
465.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
466.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@216.175
467.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@203.79
468.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@195.44
469.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@209.245
499.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
502.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@64.154
473.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.177
476.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@193.167
477.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
478.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@194.128
479.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@213.66
481.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@213.141
484.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
485.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@194.128
486.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@145.221
487.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
482.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@12.47
483.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@207.121
480.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@212.49
488.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
489.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@12.9
491.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@194.128
509.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@166.65
517.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@66.136
518.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@203.79
522.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
525.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
526.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
527.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@66.136
520.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.162
524.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@66.136
528.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@134.197
529.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@66.136
532.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@24.162
531.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@24.162
533.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@66.136
490.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@206.78
492.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
500.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@208.28
510.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
530.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@66.136
493.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.7
494.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@204.149
496.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@204.149
497.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
498.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@209.246
495.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@207.75
501.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@216.217
503.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@130.85
505.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@216.217
506.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@207.75
521.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
504.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
514.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
507.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@207.215
508.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
511.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.30
512.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@134.197
516.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
523.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
519.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.162
534.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@63.202
535.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@62.30
540.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@212.199
536.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@216.175
541.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@155.178
553.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@130.86
544.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
545.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@24.19
538.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@158.152
539.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
542.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
543.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
549.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@24.4
546.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@12.9
547.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
550.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@24.4
562.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@134.197
551.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@66.136
548.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@162.33
552.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@66.136
556.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@65.204
554.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@64.220
555.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@64.231
557.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
558.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
559.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
560.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@63.21
561.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@216.12
563.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@216.217
564.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@24.228
565.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
569.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@66.74
566.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@134.197
567.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
anon@24.228
568.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@134.197
570.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@141.155
571.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@134.197
572.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@208.178
573.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@12.154
574.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@62.30
576.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@62.7
577.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@12.154
575.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@24.185
579.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@12.154
580.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@208.178
578.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@24.163
581.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
584.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@24.190
582.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
583.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
585.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@12.154
586.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
587.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@212.213
590.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@24.185
593.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@208.178
595.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@12.154
596.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@62.30
598.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@212.2
588.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
589.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
591.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@212.213
592.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@12.154
594.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@12.154
608.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
610.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@195.92
613.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@212.2
621.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@195.92
622.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
anon@208.178
597.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
anon@24.218
599.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
600.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
601.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@24.190
602.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@194.197
603.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
605.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@12.154
606.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@24.30
609.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@195.156
611.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
    Re: This War
anon@24.30
620.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
     Re: This War
anon@24.185
614.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@63.128
615.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
    Re: This War
anon@62.30
616.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
     Re: This War
anon@65.92
617.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
      Re: This War
anon@62.30
618.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
       Re: This War
anon@12.92
619.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
        Re: This War
anon@12.92
635.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
     Re: This War
anon@213.177
639.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
      Re: This War
anon@213.122
640.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
       Re: This War
anon@64.162
641.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
        Re: This War
645.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
        Re: This War
646.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
         Re: This War
anon@217.5
647.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
         Feel free to correct me.
604.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@158.252
612.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
anon@216.161
623.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
624.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
anon@158.152
625.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
626.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
anon@158.152
628.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
634.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
anon@158.152
636.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
648.
Sep 19, 2001Sep 19 2001
649.
Sep 19, 2001Sep 19 2001
650.
Apr 17, 2003Apr 17 2003
         Re: Just out of curiosity
651.
Aug 4, 2003Aug 4 2003
          Re: Just out of curiosity
627.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
anon@64.220
629.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
anon@217.81
638.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
anon@62.30
630.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
anon@216.131
631.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
anon@24.240
632.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
anon@208.178
633.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
anon@165.228
642.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
anon@217.81
637.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
anon@207.75
643.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
644.
Sep 18, 2001Sep 18 2001
652.
Oct 28, 2003Oct 28 2003
653.
Jun 27, 2004Jun 27 2004
654.
Jan 23, 2007Jan 23 2007