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More on the WTC Disaster (Updated)

Of course this is not game related (we do not expect to be doing any further game coverage today), but with the legit news sites being almost impossible to access at times today, we've been getting loads of requests for more information about what's been going on. Here is the latest as of about 9:00 PM EDT:

  • President Bush addressed the nation 8:30 PM EDT. Here's a wire report: WASHINGTON (AP) - A grim-faced President Bush condemned ghastly attacks in Washington and New York on Tuesday and vowed to "find those responsible and bring them to justice." In the second Oval Office address of his presidency, Bush said the United States would retaliate against ``those behind these evil acts,'' and any country that harbors them.

To recap:

  • In two separate attacks, hijacked planes struck both main towers of the World Trade Center in Manhattan this morning, and both of the "twin towers" subsequently collapsed.
  • A hijacked plane struck the Pentagon in Washington, D.C. and part of it has collapsed as well.
  • A hijacked plane crashed in western Pennsylvania, near Pittsburgh. Reports indicate the hijackers planned to crash this plane into Camp David in Maryland.
  • 47 Story WTC building seven, one of the five (relatively) smaller buildings in the World Trade Center also later collapsed from ancillary damage.
  • The White House, the Pentagon, and the Capitol Building were all evacuated, all domestic flights in the US have been grounded through at least noon tomorrow.
  • Other closings include most federal offices, the stock markets, the Disney theme parks, and the cancellation of today's Major League Baseball schedule. The President's speech announced that all federal agencies will be open for business tomorrow.
  • Broadcasts out of Afghanistan showed evidence of missile attacks and antiaircraft fire, but what connection this has to today's apparent terrorist attacks in the US is not clear at this point. The US has denied involvement in these attacks.
  • In the first hints of any sort at the scope of casualties, the New York City Fire Department has estimated that as many as half of the 400 firefighters dispatched to the scene are missing. CNN has said that 78 Police officers are missing. Also, the death toll from those on the four hijacked planes has been placed at 266. The number of dead and injured at the Pentagon has been widely reported as about 100. No estimates of the number of victims from the World Trade Center have been made.
  • People throughout the United States have are being urged to donate blood to help offset significant shortages in New York and Washington. The American Red Cross in Greater New York or the American Red Cross are places to contact about donating blood or money, or both.
  • Some news sites seem to be back online. Here are some links that have been more reliable:;; Yahoo; The New York Times;;;;; MSNBC; and BBC News Online.

All of our thoughts go out to the victims of these attacks and their families and friends in what must be an incredibly difficult time.

654 Replies. 33 pages. Viewing page 13.
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414. Assassinations Sep 12, 2001, 14:53 anon@64.1
I wouldn't be surprised in the least if the executive ban on CIA assassinations is lifted. After all, who would want to invade (and subsequently occupy) Afghanistan?  
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413. Oh for God's sake. Sep 12, 2001, 14:45 Quboid
Channel 4 (UK) just showed how Microsoft Flight Sim could be used to train the pilots, showing how one of the aircraft used in yesterday's disaster can be flown. They even tastefully flew it straight at one of the towers (but cut the film just before contact to avoid complaints).

This is ridiculous, plus shamefully using this disaster to plug other agendas.


War doesn't decide who's right - just who's left.
Avatar 10439
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412. My Considerations Sep 12, 2001, 14:41 anon@24.178
It's quite disheartening the amount of little college pups that get on here with their ever-so-wise philisophical views on America and its shortcomings. You guys\gals have it all figured out, right? In your less than 30 years of experience in this world, you can easily, in the span of a message on a message board, point out exactly whats wrong with the US and why we "deserved" what we got.

The reality is (and I don't claim to have everything figured out) such:

1> Many, many people have died because of the fanatical, wrong minded views of some very twisted individuals. Many of the people who died had nothing to do with harming these individuals' views or hampering them from following their religion.

2> Regardless of whether these cowards were from the Middle East, China, wherever, the act was wrong. It is not possible from any viewpoint to condone or justify this act. If you have found some way to even remotely justify this, you are sick. Thats not a matter of "well its my opinion and you can't pass judgement". It's plain wrong and sick. Thats the fact.

3> The people who carried out this act and those harboring them are cowards. Wars and battles are fought between militaries, thats how brave men and women fight and accomplish things such as freedom. Killing thousands of people who have no impact on their views accomplishes nothing except international condemnation of the cause.

4th and finally, realize that no government is perfect. Before saying such sick things such as "The US deserved it", take into consideration that we are in fact the leader of the free world, we are the last remaining super power, and the spirit of the foundation of our country is that even if we disagree with your religion or belief, true Americans will fight and die for your right to believe it. We've done it before, and we're about to do it again.

God bless America and Americans, no matter their race, religion, or ethnic background.
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411. Re: suicide Sep 12, 2001, 14:20 anon@206.19
There is a great and terrible image online that shows a man falling head first with his eyes closed, head back and arms behind him. He knew he was going to die, he knew what was going on. In that instant he chose to find solace and peace with in himself, you can see it in his face. That individual chose to go into the unknown with a greater level of honor and courage than any terrorist. He commited himself down a path he did not chose but was forced into, and he did it bravely, he did it as an American, and as a child of God. It is for him and the people like him that died and suffered yesterday, that I pray.
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410. Predictions come true Sep 12, 2001, 14:16 John
- Since 1995 Sollog has been warning of THIS DAY! In FACT he put the year 2001 into a famous US Federal Court case in 1995, as THE YEAR THE US will be attacked and destroyed!

- Sollog also says, "When the FIRST SUITCASE NUKE hits ISRAEL, then ROME and then Washington DC, you will see the crash of the wall street!"

- Nostradamus warned THE KING OF TERROR would start WW III from the SKY in 1999. He was 2 years and 2 months off.

More here:
(heavy traffic on site so hard to access)

This comment was edited on Sep 12, 14:19.

This space is available for rent
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409. this thread Sep 12, 2001, 14:14 Tony Z
I know this thread is slowing down... but it's one of the best I've read.

Agreed. It's nice to see that the people here on blue's bulleting boards can have a decent conversation (with a few exeptions) without degrading into racist namecalling and fingerpointing (which has happened in other recent threads). Rational thinking and compassion is the only way to heal from this catastophe.

Tony Zahn
Sofware Engineer, Achievement Technologies Inc.
Go Blue!

Go Blue!
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408. Re: suicide Sep 12, 2001, 14:07 anon@216.175
404 I agree with most of your post. (Not with euthinasia, but that's OT.)

As you say, the people who jumped out of the buildings had no real choices - they would die anyway.

The terrorists had choices. I still believe their suicides were cowardly in all the worst senses of the word.
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407. I know this thread is slowing down.... Sep 12, 2001, 14:00 Dead_Cow
.... but it's one of the best I've read.

I urge all of you to show your support for your government... Not only U.S. governement, but all governements after this tragic act... please, if you have the time, go read and sign this petition if you agree with it. Tell others about it:

Thanks for any participation.

This comment was edited on Sep 12, 14:01.
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406. Philosophical act of war Sep 12, 2001, 13:53 Shingen
I mourn for those who have had their lives taken from them in this horrific and cowardly act.

I wish 'God speed' to the rescue personnel, and thank them.

I hope retaliation will be swift and merciless (mercy is unearned forgiveness), when it can be determined with certainty who was responsible.

The philosophic ideas (and the root: irrationalism) that are the cause of such horror can no longer be treated as though they are "just as good" as other philosophies. It is philosophy that determines every individual's outlook; it determines whether one will wake up and go to work and earn a moral living; or wake up, go to the airport, proceed to hijack airplanes and fly them into buildings, killing thousands of innocent people.

Every terrorist is an irrationalist, and every irrationalist is a potential terrorist; they can't all be killed, another would very easily replace each and every one. It is the philosophy of irrationalism (that which is anti-reason, anti-logic) that must be *intellectually* eradicated to as great an extent as possible. Terrorism will never cease to be a significant problem otherwise.

Killing terrorists that are responsible for such actions, is moral and just; it is an act of self-defense (America doesn't seek to gain an unearned value by defending itself against terrorists; just as someone who is being robbed gains no value by defending theirself from the robber - it is the robber who seeks to gain unearned value). However, terrorists are straw-men - as long as the philosophic ideas that lead to terrorism continue to be spread around the world, there will never be a shortage of straw-men. Destroy irrationalism, and it undercuts what leads to the terrorism in the first place (thus removing the process of new straw-men).

It obviously wouldn't be easy - it would require a sweeping philosophic movement the likes never seen before; one that the world only got a mere glimpse of with the Renaissance.

When it has gotten to the point where backpack nukes are an issue, and people hijacking planes and destroying large parts of civilization are a reality - the price payed for continued leniency and disregard toward those that are extremely irrational, is one that the civilized world can no longer afford to pay... if it is civilization that it hopes to maintain.

Make no mistake, the barbarians are philosophically (and physically) at the gates of Rome (not just the U.S., but the entire civilized world). Are you (I'm speaking to each and every individual reading this) going to stand around and watch it burn philosophically (and in line with the law of causality, burn in actuality)?
This comment was edited on Sep 12, 13:57.
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405. Re: Why shouldn't we?! Sep 12, 2001, 13:46 anon@208.25
I agree. The people who commit these acts do not understand reason or logic. They are fanatics who have been fighting among each other for thousands of years. Who actually thinks that we can convince them to stop fighting and be peaceful? There will be no peace for them until they kill each other off. The attacks on NYC and Washington are an invitation to help them along on the path of destruction they are hell-bent on pursuing.  
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404. suicide Sep 12, 2001, 13:43 anon@213.122
#402: I don't think that you can call suicide a cowardly act in all cases unless you have experienced those situations for yourself. What about people dying of terminal illness who take their lives to spare themselves pain, and their families the pain of seeing them suffer? Suicide is most often the action of those overwhelmed by life that they cannot cope with, and abandoned at a time when they need help.

Lest we forget that there's plenty of footage showing workers in the WTC jumping out of 80th floor windows. Is this not a suicidal act? However, are they cowards? Are they not caught up in a terrible situation beyond their control or even comprehension, overwhelmed and with no real options? At the expense of souding tasteless, it was for them a choice of jumping, suffocating or burning, and one would be a lot quicker.

However, the suicide bombers are of course by no measure 'brave'. I'm not sure if they're cowardly in the sense I would use the word, but they are/were irresponsible, unnaccountable, murderous villains. Oh, and sorry to go slightly OT.
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403. death Sep 12, 2001, 13:36 anon@216.161
the only difference between this event and any other death is that instead of 50,000 ppl dying in a month they died in 1 day
and of course that they hit government building didnt exactly help either
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402. cowards Sep 12, 2001, 13:26 anon@216.175
In response to those who feel these acts are brave:

Terrorists who commit these acts are cowards.

Suicide itself is a cowardly act; it is a lack of bravery to face life and it consists of a focus on your own plight rather than caring for others.

I would also contend that killing unarmed innocent civilians is another cowardly act.

2 cowardly acts = a coward

You may believe that it is brave to die for a belief, but what do these beliefs consist of? These terrorists believed that they would be rewarded for these acts by going to "paradise" to enjoy wealth, pleasure, and young virgin women. This is not an altruistic act - this is a selfish act. They obtain paradise at the cost of hundreds of innocent lives.

Selfish cowards.
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401. Why shouldn't we?! Sep 12, 2001, 13:22 anon@206.19
Why shouldn't we attack the Taliban? Why shouldn't we attack Hussein? Fact is that both those have habored terrorists, including Bin Laden, who have attacked and killed American citizens. When the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor, we did not try to find a particular general, or the airplane pilots and kill them alone did we? No! We declared war on Japan! The Taliban and Iraq might say that they had no knowledge of and codone the attacks, but you can damn well bet they really knew of and supported them. You can claim that I have no proof, and that that just isn't true, but come on! Wake UP! These governments have been using terrorists as their own special forces for decades! We do have proof of that! We know that Osama has been conducting attacks on the USA and we know that the Taliban support him.
I'm sure that we will find furtehr evidence that Hussein had knowledge of this as well. If Osama bin Laden did this, we need to consider him as the general acting on the orders of his country, and we must go to war.

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400. Re: What I find most disturbing... Sep 12, 2001, 13:06 anon@152.31
Only certain groups (small) are celebrating... most of them are condeming it...  
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399. Re: Difficulty of Attack Sep 12, 2001, 12:54 anon@128.249
396: I agree this wasn't a very sophisticated attack. Basically a few committed people, razor blades, and some cans of mace.

I think we will be see air marshalls on a lot more (if not all) flights in the future. This is an armed officer that will be stationed at the front of the plane w/ a "zone" behind the cockpit that only crew can enter. Any passenger entering this zone near the cockpit will be met with extreme suspicion by the air marshall.
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398. Blue's News owns Sep 12, 2001, 12:44 anon@206.78
I noticed(and i don't think I'm alone) that a gaming site is the best discussion thus far on this subject, even compared to all the government talks. Thank you blues news for giving us a place where our voices may be heard, however immoral and down right outrageous they may be. That is why our country is so great. Long live democracy. Long live the United States. Funny how an act meant to demoralize America and weaken its spirit has had the absolute opposite effect. We are Americans, and thus we still carry the instinct to defend what our founding fathers have died for. And I'm proud to say I'm American. Some may not agree but as a great man once said: "I do not believe what you have to say is right, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

-Daniel Cleveland
Hanford, Ca
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397. Re: Difficulty of Attack Sep 12, 2001, 11:52 Tony Z
#396, you are exactly correct.

This wasn't that hard of a act to commit (once you get past the morals part) and there can't be any real protection against it.
It seems that the thing that kept the plane that crashed in PA from hitting it's target was that the passengers and/or crew onboard fought back. The couldn't save themselves, but we'll never know how many people that plane would have killed.
You cannot effectively fight someone who is 100% sure that they are correct, and who is willing to die.
The most frightening thing of all it that this could very well have been just a small group from anywhere whose was not sponsered by any nation, and who we may never be able to punish. Only time will tell.

Tony Zahn
Sofware Engineer, Achievement Technologies Inc.
Go Blue!

Go Blue!
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396. Difficulty of Attack Sep 12, 2001, 11:35 anon@65.165
I find it amusing that the media is proclaiming this as a sophisticated attack when practically anyone could duplicate it with about 20 people that are willing to die.

It is trivially easy to enter the country (thousands of mexicans do it every day).

It is trivially easy to buy airline tickets for 4 planes in the same area, around the same time of day.

It is trivially easy to sneak a knife (what was used in the hijacking) aboard a plane, especially if it was not made from metal.

It is trivially easy to fly a jet liner (not land or take-off) given some basic flight sim experience.

And guess what, unless we institute full body cavity searches for every passenger and/or stationed armed commandos on every domestic and international flight it could happen again next week.
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395. Isolation Sep 12, 2001, 11:26 anon@65.165
While the accusation that the United States is becoming increasingly isolated could be argued, it had nothing at all to do with this attack.

It is precisely our involvement in the Middle East which has caused this terrorist attack. The attack was most likely comitted by radical islamic groups that oppose any kind of peace in the region, so saying that increased US involvement would of helped is completely wrong.

And even though it was our international involvement which caused this attack, I do not support ending our involvement, because that would be giving into the terrorists.
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654 Replies. 33 pages. Viewing page 13.
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