Sepharo wrote on May 7, 2025, 02:35:

Prez wrote on May 6, 2025, 23:06:

Sepharo wrote on May 6, 2025, 17:52:

gsilver wrote on May 6, 2025, 16:15:
But also... why, really, does AAA really matter? The gameplay isn't necessarily better than anything out of the smaller studios, so what we're really paying for is graphics that requires hardware that costs too much with dev cycles that take too long.

I for one will miss AAA games if they stop.
I enjoy me an indie or AAA... but they really don't stack up to AAA in scope, complexity, polish, etc.
they can sometimes hit on a few of those... but not all

Take the excellent Indiana Jones and the Great Circle... That's not going to come out of a small developer... it needs the weight of AAA studio.

I will feel the lack of the few great AAA games we get as well should that ever happen - I have greatly enjoyed several in the past few years. But AAA companies are beyond broken, and it is causing serious harm. I would rather sacrifice AAA gaming for a few years so it can remake itself healthier. Right now it's an unsustainable dumpster fire where only the ones responsible for the disaster it has become thrive because they only care about themselves.

Wait, did you edit my post to turn my AA mention in second sentence to AAA?

Maybe you did a find replace for your own and got mine too somehow...

Looking at your original post, I obviously am responsible for that edit. But I absolutely did not to intend to do that.

dscarron wrote on May 7, 2025, 10:10:
*sigh* https://www.visualcapitalist.com/video-game-industry-revenues-by-platform/ Admittedly this is only to 2022.

"In 2024, the revenue from the worldwide gaming market was estimated at almost 455 billion U.S. dollars, with the mobile gaming market generating an estimated 98.7 billion U.S. dollars of the total." https://www.statista.com/topics/868/video-games/#editorsPicks (For reference, the movie industry is expected to hit $86.1 bn in 2025.) Someone call a coroner or at least a wa-ambulance...

What should worry people, IMHO, is that the mobile market eating everyone's lunch.
Video games aren't dying, they are being murdered by folks jumping ship into that market.

I'm going to Yes, But a bit.
I think there's a realization that the mobile consumer isn't the same as the console or PC consumer. I know some here would argue that those last two are different, too, but they overlap a lot. The mobile consumer not really as much.

Don't get me wrong, something like CoD has been hurt by mobile versions, which I don't understand but sure. And Genshin Impact is a top 10 all-time earning mobile game, and clearly overlaps with PC/consoles.
But the bulk of games earning money are things like Candy Crush Saga, Pokemon Go, Monopoly Go, etc. These aren't going after regular gamers.

That said, the #1 of all time is Honoe of Kings, which has made almost $19B, and is a MOBA. PUBG Mobile is #3, and has absolutely made more than PUBG PC. The overlap is growing, but given that these games are frequently stripped down and seeking whales, I don't think there will be a rush to make them outside of a few major publishers. I don't think the indies will rush to them. They're the ones also not rushing to GAAS. These business models only support a handful of titles at a time, and only a few companies can fund the marketing it takes to try to make your game one of those handful, and only a few can support the failures it takes when they don't catch on.

*sigh* https://www.visualcapitalist.com/video-game-industry-revenues-by-platform/ Admittedly this is only to 2022.

"In 2024, the revenue from the worldwide gaming market was estimated at almost 455 billion U.S. dollars, with the mobile gaming market generating an estimated 98.7 billion U.S. dollars of the total." https://www.statista.com/topics/868/video-games/#editorsPicks (For reference, the movie industry is expected to hit $86.1 bn in 2025.) Someone call a coroner or at least a wa-ambulance...

What should worry people, IMHO, is that the mobile market eating everyone's lunch.
Video games aren't dying, they are being murdered by folks jumping ship into that market.

Prez wrote on May 6, 2025, 23:06:

Sepharo wrote on May 6, 2025, 17:52:

gsilver wrote on May 6, 2025, 16:15:
But also... why, really, does AAA really matter? The gameplay isn't necessarily better than anything out of the smaller studios, so what we're really paying for is graphics that requires hardware that costs too much with dev cycles that take too long.

I for one will miss AAA games if they stop.
I enjoy me an indie or AAA... but they really don't stack up to AAA in scope, complexity, polish, etc.
they can sometimes hit on a few of those... but not all

Take the excellent Indiana Jones and the Great Circle... That's not going to come out of a small developer... it needs the weight of AAA studio.

I will feel the lack of the few great AAA games we get as well should that ever happen - I have greatly enjoyed several in the past few years. But AAA companies are beyond broken, and it is causing serious harm. I would rather sacrifice AAA gaming for a few years so it can remake itself healthier. Right now it's an unsustainable dumpster fire where only the ones responsible for the disaster it has become thrive because they only care about themselves.

Wait, did you edit my post to turn my AA mention in second sentence to AAA?

Maybe you did a find replace for your own and got mine too somehow...

I don't think the games themselves are the problem. It's the industry behind them. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villainy. But that doesn't mean the industry is dead. People want to play games, and more importantly, many of them want all the voice acting, motion capture, flashy graphics, advanced sound tech, etc etc that come with AAA game publication.

Sepharo wrote on May 6, 2025, 17:52:

gsilver wrote on May 6, 2025, 16:15:
But also... why, really, does AAA really matter? The gameplay isn't necessarily better than anything out of the smaller studios, so what we're really paying for is graphics that requires hardware that costs too much with dev cycles that take too long.

I for one will miss AAA games if they stop.
I enjoy me an indie or AAA... but they really don't stack up to AAA in scope, complexity, polish, etc.
they can sometimes hit on a few of those... but not all

Take the excellent Indiana Jones and the Great Circle... That's not going to come out of a small developer... it needs the weight of AAA studio.

I will feel the lack of the few great AAA games we get as well should that ever happen - I have greatly enjoyed several in the past few years. But AAA companies are beyond broken, and it is causing serious harm. I would rather sacrifice AAA gaming for a few years so it can remake itself healthier. Right now it's an unsustainable dumpster fire where only the ones responsible for the disaster it has become thrive because they only care about themselves.

gsilver wrote on May 6, 2025, 16:15:
But also... why, really, does AAA really matter? The gameplay isn't necessarily better than anything out of the smaller studios, so what we're really paying for is graphics that requires hardware that costs too much with dev cycles that take too long.

Because just like movies, tentpoles represent the industry, they bring in the money to fund indie projects (in Hollywood at least, in gaming that means acquiring indie studios). They are ambassadors of the industry to showcase the potential of the art.

And seriously... Red Dead Redemption 2. Art like that You want that gone?

I'm so old, I remember when Eurogamer had some journalistic integrity

gsilver wrote on May 6, 2025, 16:15:
But also... why, really, does AAA really matter? The gameplay isn't necessarily better than anything out of the smaller studios, so what we're really paying for is graphics that requires hardware that costs too much with dev cycles that take too long.

I for one will miss AAA games if they stop.
I enjoy me an indie or AA... but they really don't stack up to AAA in scope, complexity, polish, etc.
they can sometimes hit on a few of those... but not all

Take the excellent Indiana Jones and the Great Circle... That's not going to come out of a small developer... it needs the weight of AAA studio.

Not clicking the link, but just from the summary, I can already see that the author is attributing it to the wrong problem.

The issue is that ongoing support of old games, in GTA's case, GTA Online, has a way of consuming a large amount of company resources. So long as a monolithic ongoing project remains profitable, the company behind it has little incentive to make anything new.

Look at Epic. When do I expect the next big game from them?
...About the time that Fortnite stops making a massive profit.

Of course, the consequences of betting big on an ongoing game can backfire. Look at Concord, and, well, Sony basically declaring that their entire release slate was "Live Service" stuff. Sony may have pivoted away from that, but there's no question that the PS5 library has been slim, and a lot of it was due to resources being poured into live service stuff.

Not saying GTA 6 isn't big, and almost definitely too big, but GTA's own success is kind of to blame.
...I've been feeling that this was a problem since the Ultima Online days. There were other factors, but UO's success had a large part in the franchise ending, and a lot of other studios have followed a similar route in the years since.

But also... why, really, does AAA really matter? The gameplay isn't necessarily better than anything out of the smaller studios, so what we're really paying for is graphics that requires hardware that costs too much with dev cycles that take too long.

Oh my gosh, not a writer for a gaming website being in their 30s or early 40s!

The article basically says what people here have been saying for years, I don't see anything to get anyone's panties in a twist. The title should specify that this opinion piece is about the AAA industry specifically but that really doesn't seem like a big deal. They could make the argument that "industry" implies the AAA scene, whereas indies are more like artists. Not sure I'd buy that but it's not too much of a stretch.

People here particularly have a real bee in their bonnets about "PC gaming is dead" articles. Yes, there have been some dumb predictions in a few articles years ago, isn't it time to get over it? This article isn't even about PC gaming in particular.

Not clicking on that. No no.

@Beamer: Agree. But the headline specifically said "The Gaming Industry". Clickbait power at maximum capacity. I can get bullshit headlines that aren't anywhere close to true from every video on YouTube; I would expect better from professional journalists.

To the point you made, the AAA companies can't die fast enough. They are awful. The occasional good game that we see out of them here and there isn't worth the absolute shit that they are, the vile shit that they foist on customers, and the way they are trying to destroy ownership is reprehensible. Neither is the abuse they levy on employees worth a few good games, and then they fire them once the game is finished and everyone in the board room gets a fat juicy bonus. The wrong people are getting rich. The real creatives are treated like cattle and let go after years or even decades of service. Then we get to hear how difficult of a decision it was for all of the soulless, talentless suits as they smoke thousand dollar bills and jerk off their investors.

Prez wrote on May 6, 2025, 12:25:
Stick your clickbait headline right up your ass. Stick it up there so far that it winks at you when you brush your teeth. The current iteration of the games industry needs to change, and it's changing as required, and as expected. All of the shortsighted, greedy corporate fucks who tried their best to ruin it didn't, and won't. Them dying does not constitute the games industry dying. I don't know if you're a millennial, but you sure as hell write like one.

Looks like he is, especially since his claim to fame is, "League of Legends and competitive Pokémon." The, "video games 1958-2025 RIP" pic at the start of the article is just ridiculous too, I didn't even bother to read it once I saw that.

Jivaro wrote on May 6, 2025, 13:38:
Are we already back at the "gaming is dead" part of this cycle?

You are reading my mind once again. Seems like PC gaming dying/being reborn is happening 2-3 times per gaming console release cycle. This one just in time for the Switch 2 to kill it off for good!

On a general journalism note, the year long comparisons of how GTA6 is going to be the messiah of anything video gaming industry related is going to be insufferable.

Jivaro wrote on May 6, 2025, 13:38:
Are we already back at the "gaming is dead" part of this cycle?

In fairness, it's saying that AAA gaming is dead more than the industry is.
Is anyone here really going to say AAA gaming is healthy? What percentage of games that Blue covers are AAA? What percentage that people here play are? With consoles shrinking, the days of multiple games with $350M budgets seems absolutely numbered.

And let them rot. All the AAA publishers are chasing the GAAS dragon. Let them rot. It sucks that it takes job stability away from devs, but this industry is starting to look more like music, where virtually anyone can make and release an album with a laptop, some software, and easily available digital distribution, to the movie industry, which has gotten easier from a distribution perspective but hard for a handful of people to make something that is worthwhile to engage with.

Ah, another one from the clicks won't bait themselves category.

Not doing those clowns the favor of clicking. The quoted bit is already some of the dumbest shit I have read in a looong time.

/golfclap@Eurogamer

Are we already back at the "gaming is dead" part of this cycle?

The indie market has never been stronger. AA is strong as well.

(This post duplicated, somehow. Previous post edited)

.

Stick your clickbait headline right up your ass. Stick it up there so far that it winks at you when you brush your teeth. The current iteration of the games industry needs to change, and it's changing as required, and as expected. All of the shortsighted, greedy corporate fucks who tried their best to ruin it didn't, and won't. Them dying does not constitute the games industry dying. I don't know if you're a millennial, but you sure as hell write like one.