Microsoft Break-up Broken

Microsoft Won't Be Broken Up is an Associated Press story (thanks Adrenaline Vault) with the news that there will be no further follow-up to the anti-trust-related break up of Microsoft ordered last year (story) that was subsequently reversed by an appeals court (story) which vacated the breakup order "on remedies, remand the case for reconsideration of the remedial order." According the new report, "The Bush administration, reversing the Clinton White House legal strategy against Microsoft, told the software manufacturer Thursday it no longer seeks to have the company broken up. The department also said it will not pursue the bundling issues in its protracted antitrust suit against the software giant."
View : : :
86.
 
Re: Individualism
Sep 8, 2001, 01:00
anon@134.197
86.
Re: Individualism Sep 8, 2001, 01:00
Sep 8, 2001, 01:00
anon@134.197
 
"Yes it was understood from your first post, that you think it is ok to force people to act according to how you would like them to. By determining that 'someone' should set such standards, you are stating that some group or gang should have power over the lives of individuals by way of force."

That's the purpose behind government and organization at all levels, down to the family... It is part of who we are.

Are you an anarchist?

You tend to oversimplify things by taking them to an extreme. Laws are maintained through force, technically, but that doesn't make setting a minimum standard evil.

"Again back to the social subjectivism: "if it is willed to be by 'the people,' it will be.""

It's also the idea behind democracy. Go figure.

"No it doesn't depend on how you "look at life." A is A, existence exists; it doesn't depend on how you look at it - that does not change reality, it is called the law of identity, it is the base principle of logic, learn it some time."

A is A but what is A?

It depends on how you abstract it. Every human is a human. Every human is a collection of atoms. Every atom is an atom.

"Devotion to the good of others is not a rational foundation for one's philosophy: there is always another mouth to feed other than your own, another desire to satisfy, someone else's "good" to be devoted to, another sacrifice to make."

So, it is evil to feed the mouths of others if it is at your expense, but it is good to let them starve, if it is not at your expense?

That's pretty stupid.

"Sacrifice means taking a lesser value over a greater value; there is nothing moral about that, and a rational mind would not accept such a deal - so force must be used."

But sacrifice requires great effort and compassion. Not sacrificing something might require less effort and compassion. If compassion is important to your moral code, then sacrifice is rational.

"No, irrationality is not "vital to our identity." Identity is non-contradictory, a thing is itself (A is A). You have failed throughout your post to back up what you've proclaimed, but have simply stated 'it is' without stating why; you cannot back up what you say, because your argument is contradictory, i.e. wrong. Also, you seem to have a serious issue with using "we" or "our" when stating your own position, who are you referring to exactly?"

I don't need to clarify who "we" and "our" refer to.

At a certain level, we are irrational in our thinking. It's an abstract concept.

If you're stranded on an island with a weaker companion, but there is no alternate food source, would you kill your companion? Seems pretty rational does it? Very selfish (which, by your definition, is good.) Would it be irrational not to do so? By your thinking, yes. But in my thinking, it would be good, not evil.

Things become more rational as you go deeper down, but with abstraction, things can seem irrational, but yet serve a function.

"Not peachy-keen? It was worse in Europe than it has ever been there in recorded history. The middle ages did not set the stage for (other than that they came before) the Renaissance, Saint Thomas Aquinas (thanks to Aristotle) and other philosophers did."

Europe was largely the same even prior to the middle ages. During antiquity, what do you think was happening outside of what we normally call the "civilized world" in the deep dark forests of Europe? Even prior to Christianity, common folks in much of pagan Europe lived in a world of despair.

The middle ages spawned nations, and brought different people into communication with each other.

I'm sure the common man still had some fun in his life time, and could feel good. Faith may have been a significant part of the life of the common man in those times, and some people are capable of being extremely happy in the darkest of situations through faith alone. Wether their faith is true or not is unknown (is it rational? Is it not? There isn't enough evidence to say), but the fact of the matter is, people can be satisfied with it. And if it IS false, this means people are being sort of irrational, aren't they? Yet they can achieve happiness. But this might not be in accordance with reality. That doesn't make it evil.

Reality is not an absolute judge between good and evil because all of this is based on our perception.

I haven't studied the works of St. Thomas Aquinas in detail, but he was probably not opposed to the concept of Original Sin, and that makes him evil doesn't it? So here we just might have an example of someone who is both good and evil... which is stronger?

"Statism is not an entirely new development; dictators, and socialist gangs are the modern variation of kings and feudal lords - they all rely on force (and forced sacrifice)."

Yes, but you think statism is natural, and rational. It's reality. People were never truly independent of leaders. Look at family structures. We're social animals and we've always had some sort of concept of heirarchy. Is that evil?

You can take philosophy to hair-splitting extremes, but we're never going to be able to fully comprehend what is real and rational... We're finite.
Date
Subject
Author
1.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
6.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@65.89
10.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
14.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@216.148
103.
Sep 9, 2001Sep 9 2001
anon@64.164
2.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@63.207
3.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@217.81
4.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
5.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@12.26
9.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
7.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@128.194
87.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
94.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
8.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
11.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@128.194
28.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
12.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
17.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
18.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@216.148
30.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@134.197
31.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
36.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
42.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@134.197
46.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
48.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
13.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@4.3
15.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@65.89
16.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
25.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
19.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
20.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
21.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
23.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
24.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
22.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@207.13
26.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
27.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
29.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@209.3
32.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
33.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@134.197
35.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
37.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@209.42
41.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
49.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
52.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
34.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@4.3
38.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@158.252
39.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
anon@64.167
40.
Sep 6, 2001Sep 6 2001
43.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@158.252
44.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@64.231
45.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
47.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@158.252
50.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@62.49
51.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@62.49
53.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
54.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@207.2
56.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
58.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
60.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
55.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
70.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@134.197
78.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
80.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
 86.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
   Re: Individualism
anon@134.197
91.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
96.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
97.
Sep 9, 2001Sep 9 2001
      Re: Individualism
98.
Sep 9, 2001Sep 9 2001
       Re: Individualism
anon@158.252
99.
Sep 9, 2001Sep 9 2001
        Re: Individualism
101.
Sep 9, 2001Sep 9 2001
         Re: Individualism
anon@158.252
100.
Sep 9, 2001Sep 9 2001
       Re: Individualism
57.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@207.140
59.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@4.35
61.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
62.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@207.140
64.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
65.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
63.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@207.140
66.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
67.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
68.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@65.169
72.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
79.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
82.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
84.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
     Re: Capitalism
anon@208.190
89.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
     Re: Capitalism
92.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
      Re: Capitalism
93.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
       Re: Capitalism
anon@209.112
95.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
       Re: Capitalism
69.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@207.140
71.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@158.252
73.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
74.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@134.197
81.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
83.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
    socialism
anon@208.190
88.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
     Re: socialism
anon@158.252
90.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
      Re: socialism
85.
Sep 8, 2001Sep 8 2001
    Re: $LAVE$
75.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@158.252
76.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@158.252
77.
Sep 7, 2001Sep 7 2001
anon@158.252
102.
Sep 9, 2001Sep 9 2001
anon@63.202
104.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
105.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
anon@213.3
108.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
106.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
anon@158.252
107.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
114.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
anon@134.197
109.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
110.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
111.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
112.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
113.
Sep 10, 2001Sep 10 2001
115.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
116.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
119.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@194.102
120.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@154.11
118.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@62.202
121.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
122.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
123.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
126.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
128.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
129.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@158.252
130.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
132.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
       Re: Capitalism, etc.
anon@158.252
133.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
       Re: Capitalism, etc.
anon@158.252
137.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
146.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
124.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
anon@63.73
125.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
127.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
131.
Sep 12, 2001Sep 12 2001
138.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
117.
Sep 11, 2001Sep 11 2001
anon@147.51
134.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@158.252
135.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.240
139.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
141.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.240
140.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@158.252
143.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@24.240
144.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@158.252
145.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@63.183
149.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
150.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
151.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
      Re: same ol' story
anon@65.204
152.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
       Re: same ol' story
153.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
        Re: same ol' story
155.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
         Re: same ol' story
158.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
         Re: same ol' story
anon@158.252
162.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
          Re: same ol' story
163.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
           Re: same ol' story
anon@158.252
164.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
            Re: same ol' story
167.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
             Re: same ol' story
anon@158.252
168.
Sep 15, 2001Sep 15 2001
              Re: same ol' story
165.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
           Re: same ol' story
anon@63.150
166.
Sep 14, 2001Sep 14 2001
            Re: same ol' story
169.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
             Re: same ol' story
170.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
              Re: same ol' story
171.
Sep 16, 2001Sep 16 2001
              Re: same ol' story
anon@24.240
172.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
               Re: same ol' story
173.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
                Re: same ol' story
174.
Sep 17, 2001Sep 17 2001
                 Re: same ol' story
anon@63.150
154.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
        Re: same ol' story
anon@63.150
156.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
         Re: same ol' story
157.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
          Re: same ol' story
anon@24.240
159.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
       Re: same ol' story
anon@158.252
160.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
        Re: same ol' story
anon@24.240
161.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
         Re: same ol' story
anon@158.252
136.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
142.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
147.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
148.
Sep 13, 2001Sep 13 2001
anon@63.150