chickenboo wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 11:40:

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 06:52:

G.oZ wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 06:18:

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 05:05:

Not sure how this is the "BIG" one . If you seriously believe that MTX would have never happened without $1.99 horse armor "paving the way" then I have some bridges to sell you on Uranus. Deal?

I call it the big one because this was the first one that made big waves throughout, at least, the "western" gaming community. I distinctly remember the mix of bemusement, befuddlement and outrage that they'd sell a $2/2.50 "skin" for your horse. It was likely an inevitable path, but they were the first big US studio to do so (I think) - especially for a single player offline game.

Sure but that criticism was already way overblown and exaggerated back then. $1.99 for a simple quest and some horse armor. Oh the horror. Not.

Not horror-ful, but a sign of things to come, of the normalization of financialization of game assets, and the road to nickel and diming the playerbase. When Valve and Bethesda worked together on paid mods, the community came together and vocally opposed it and thank goodness that went away with a whimper.

It went away with a "whimper"? What? The Creation Store, which is present in several Bethesda games (Skyrim, Fallout IV, Starfield), IS paid (curated) mods.

Maybe what you mean is that Bethesda wanted to enable all mod authors to be able to charge for mods. The community did not "come together" on that one at all. The community was very divided on that matter. Many people wanted mod authors to be able to get reimbursed for their mods and many people didn't. It was very controversial.

The end result is now the Creation Store which, again, IS paid mods, so I'm not sure in what alternate fantasy world you are living where paid mods never happened(?).

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 06:52:

G.oZ wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 06:18:

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 05:05:

Not sure how this is the "BIG" one . If you seriously believe that MTX would have never happened without $1.99 horse armor "paving the way" then I have some bridges to sell you on Uranus. Deal?

I call it the big one because this was the first one that made big waves throughout, at least, the "western" gaming community. I distinctly remember the mix of bemusement, befuddlement and outrage that they'd sell a $2/2.50 "skin" for your horse. It was likely an inevitable path, but they were the first big US studio to do so (I think) - especially for a single player offline game.

Sure but that criticism was already way overblown and exaggerated back then. $1.99 for a simple quest and some horse armor. Oh the horror. Not.

Not horror-ful, but a sign of things to come, of the normalization of financialization of game assets, and the road to nickel and diming the playerbase. When Valve and Bethesda worked together on paid mods, the community came together and vocally opposed it and thank goodness that went away with a whimper.

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 06:52:

G.oZ wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 06:18:

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 05:05:

Not sure how this is the "BIG" one . If you seriously believe that MTX would have never happened without $1.99 horse armor "paving the way" then I have some bridges to sell you on Uranus. Deal?

I call it the big one because this was the first one that made big waves throughout, at least, the "western" gaming community. I distinctly remember the mix of bemusement, befuddlement and outrage that they'd sell a $2/2.50 "skin" for your horse. It was likely an inevitable path, but they were the first big US studio to do so (I think) - especially for a single player offline game.

Sure but that criticism was already way overblown and exaggerated back then. $1.99 for a simple quest and some horse armor. Oh the horror. Not.

Wait...you can't fight on horses in Oblivion right? It has been a minute since I played.

If that is the case, then horse armor should have sold abysmally...but people just couldn't wait to get one more quest and have it better than their friends.

G.oZ wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 06:18:

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 05:05:

Not sure how this is the "BIG" one . If you seriously believe that MTX would have never happened without $1.99 horse armor "paving the way" then I have some bridges to sell you on Uranus. Deal?

I call it the big one because this was the first one that made big waves throughout, at least, the "western" gaming community. I distinctly remember the mix of bemusement, befuddlement and outrage that they'd sell a $2/2.50 "skin" for your horse. It was likely an inevitable path, but they were the first big US studio to do so (I think) - especially for a single player offline game.

Sure but that criticism was already way overblown and exaggerated back then. $1.99 for a simple quest and some horse armor. Oh the horror. Not.

RogueSix wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 05:05:

Not sure how this is the "BIG" one . If you seriously believe that MTX would have never happened without $1.99 horse armor "paving the way" then I have some bridges to sell you on Uranus. Deal?

I call it the big one because this was the first one that made big waves throughout, at least, the "western" gaming community. I distinctly remember the mix of bemusement, befuddlement and outrage that they'd sell a $2/2.50 "skin" for your horse. It was likely an inevitable path, but they were the first big US studio to do so (I think) - especially for a single player offline game.

G.oZ wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 01:27:
Those games ruin the power fantasy of growing stronger from weak beginnings - and decide that all combat *must* necessarily have *some* challenge. No finding monsters that you can't touch/will destroy you with a thought and then getting more powerful and stomping them.

This might have been true for Oblivion as the sole outlier but the vast majority of games with level scaling (including Skyrim) have a leveling range and you can absolutely indulge in your "power fantasy" of curb stomping rats after you have leveled up a couple times.

Also, and this is the BIG one: Horse Armour. This was the first major cosmetic microtransaction in Western games IIRC - and Oblivion's DLC's helped paved the way for the microtransaction hell of modern gaming.

Not sure how this is the "BIG" one . If you seriously believe that MTX would have never happened without $1.99 horse armor "paving the way" then I have some bridges to sell you on Uranus. Deal?

G.oZ wrote on Apr 23, 2025, 01:27:
I played Morrowind. I know Oblivion was considered a great game .... but it started the ruination of RPG's for me by having blatant level/monster scaling. It meant if you didn't focus on/enjoy the actual story/questing, the gameplay starts becoming a little ridiculous. I rejected Skyrim for the same reason. Diablo IV as well. I consider it lazy development, even though it allows for more content creation where combat/gameplay challenge is almost essentially baked in already.

Those games ruin the power fantasy of growing stronger from weak beginnings - and decide that all combat *must* necessarily have *some* challenge. No finding monsters that you can't touch/will destroy you with a thought and then getting more powerful and stomping them.

Also, and this is the BIG one: Horse Armour. This was the first major cosmetic microtransaction in Western games IIRC - and Oblivion's DLC's helped paved the way for the microtransaction hell of modern gaming.

Level scaling is the first thing I modded out of Oblivion (and Skyrim, though in Skyrim it wasn't as obvious). I also consider it to be the absolute laziest form of game design known to man, even worse than using AI tools and assets. I think it is a reflection of Todd Howard's personality, he is everything you need him to be. Man that dude is a douche.

I played Morrowind. I know Oblivion was considered a great game .... but it started the ruination of RPG's for me by having blatant level/monster scaling. It meant if you didn't focus on/enjoy the actual story/questing, the gameplay starts becoming a little ridiculous. I rejected Skyrim for the same reason. Diablo IV as well. I consider it lazy development, even though it allows for more content creation where combat/gameplay challenge is almost essentially baked in already.

Those games ruin the power fantasy of growing stronger from weak beginnings - and decide that all combat *must* necessarily have *some* challenge. No finding monsters that you can't touch/will destroy you with a thought and then getting more powerful and stomping them.

Also, and this is the BIG one: Horse Armour. This was the first major cosmetic microtransaction in Western games IIRC - and Oblivion's DLC's helped paved the way for the microtransaction hell of modern gaming.

Jim wrote on Apr 22, 2025, 21:15:
maybe the outrage crowd has not had time to find things to be outraged about.
Like they have a body types instead of male and female. I am sure some people will flip their shit once they realize that

Do they have a pronoun selector? I hope to God they do. I want more anti-pronoun rage compilation videos. Those are the best.

from zero to hero...

maybe the outrage crowd has not had time to find things to be outraged about.
Like they have a body types instead of male and female. I am sure some people will flip their shit once they realize that

But... but... but... "everyone" was going to boycott Bethesda games after Starfield, no? Was I LIED to AGAIN????