so okay, the game's page says "YOU NEED _____ TO RUN THIS GAME". and all the people who don't have ______ can't run it so don't buy it.

THEN they hear from outside sources that "Actually, you CAN run HD2 without _____! You can play!" so they buy it and do, and apparently enjoy themselves a lot. clearly it's not a *totally* insignificant portion of the game's business.

so then I put it to Arrowhead that it should be on THEM to make sure the game keeps running in some capacity for these people! why not? what about just offline or something? what, it's not going to even start up anymore? that's not good enough. that's just not good enough.

'cos we all know DAMN WELL the System Requirements are almost exclusively ridiculously low these days. even most games' Recommended Specs -- it's become absolutely commonplace that the Recommended Specs really kinda ARE the Required Specs, and the developers almost always elaborate with "Really you should have MORE than even just our Recommended Specs if you ACTUALLY want to run the thing in the way we intended. Especially if you want to experience it like how we show it off in our ads."

so to say Minimum / Recommended System Specs are some sort of written law that the companies adhere to honorably these days is insane. I remember an example with "Forza Horizon 5" where the game came out and the devs let everyone know that if they REALLY wanted to play it correctly they needed an RTX 3080, which was new that year and essentially the best consumer GPU that was available at the time.

how is it that Helldivers 2 can't catch anything but horrible publicity? is it because they're doing an awful job ... or is it because there are just so many people playing it? and keeping a thing like that ongoing is just such a major challenge? who knows. not I. peace and be well, all.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Mar 29, 2025, 00:50:
Totally different kettle of worms. The PSN account requirement was after the fact and after the game had been on sale for some time. That's retroactively changing the terms of an agreed upon purchase, which is illegal in most civilized countries. Hell, it's illegal in some parts of the US as well.

This is a blatant lie. The PSN requirement was not "after the fact" It was posted on the steam page the very first day the game went on sale, just like the minimum requirements were, then was enforced after people who knew they either didn't have or couldn't get one had already played the game for some time. The situation is EXACTLY the same.

The game worked for people just fine at release despite a warning written on the steam page (Minimum requirements OR PSN account requirement), then after a period of time Sony and/or Arrowhead mandated that requirement and took away access from people whose game was working fine up to that point.

I enjoy Helldivers 2

Just checking in to see if there was any more elitist gatekeeping and/or trolling. Was not disappointed on either count.

Tom wrote on Mar 29, 2025, 14:53:
Normally when you buy a game and run it on your computer, and it works correctly, that's a pretty good sign that you've met the minimum requirements. Especially when you've put 1200 hours into it over a year or whatever. You really think it's ok to just pull the rug after that?

Yes, it's OK in my book. As a wise little green man once said "Always in motion, the future is". You can't count on your luck to last forever if the requirements deviate from what you have. Once the game actually adheres to its own original requirements then you need to deal with it and fulfill the requirements. Simple as that.

That said, people affected by this change should be grateful that they get a reason to stop playing this trash game. There is a life beyond shooting bugs in the face.

Normally when you buy a game and run it on your computer, and it works correctly, that's a pretty good sign that you've met the minimum requirements. Especially when you've put 1200 hours into it over a year or whatever. You really think it's ok to just pull the rug after that?

Tom wrote on Mar 29, 2025, 10:20:
It's insane to blame the customers for this. If this was a hard requirement from day 1, why didn't the developers code a check to say "if CPU doesn't have AVX2 then display an error and quit" from day 1? Would that have been so hard? This is 100% the fault of the developers.

So, what you are effectively saying is that every developer should program a system compatibility check into their games for the illiterate dummies? Come on. That's not feasible at all and where do we stop? What if a 3rd party review confirms that a game would easily still run on a RTX 2060, even though RTX 3060 is given as a min req? Do we just give the RTX 2060 gamer the sweet middle finger of love? We just produce an error message and quit? That it? And then? Refund? Refunds are not free by the way. The credit card companies still charge the seller their fees.
What if illiterate dummies buy VR games without even owning a VR set? Do we program checks for that as well? What about fulfilling age requirements? How do we check those?

No way, José. It is definitely the buyer's responsibility to read the fine print and to make sure that your fucking computer is compatible with the fucking game and that, if applicable, you fulfill all other requirements as well, including the acceptance of 3rd party EULAs (e.g. Denuvo, account linking, whatever).
That's what a store page is for. The purpose of the store page is not to merely click the 'preorder' or 'buy' button like a frickin' mouthbreather. It is a product information page. Read it. Understand it. Then buy. Or don't.

It's insane to blame the customers for this. If this was a hard requirement from day 1, why didn't the developers code a check to say "if CPU doesn't have AVX2 then display an error and quit" from day 1? Would that have been so hard? This is 100% the fault of the developers.

jdreyer wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 23:26:
This isn't the first time Sony has done this for this game. Upon their Steam launch for HD2, they allowed people to purchase and play the game without a PSN account. Then several months later they decided to require it. There was a huge outcry, and they had to back down.

They didn't have to back down. They had the requirement for a PSN account on the store page from day 1 but just CHOSE not to enforce it at first... until they did. The outcry by the illiterate dimwits of the planet was just as unjustified as it is here with the CPU requirement. Everyone who is able to read knew (could have known) that a PSN account and an AVX2 capable CPU is required. BTW, contrary to the CPU requirement, which might be slightly more hidden, the PSN requirement was plastered all over the store page and unmissable.

Unfortunately, Sony are pussies and caved under the massive whining with regard to the PSN requirement but I hope they find their balls this time and tell people to fuck off and to learn to read.

jdreyer wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 23:26:
The problem here is that Sony and Arrowhead are taking something away that they previously gave, and that's why people are upset. They allowed people to play without having AVX2 (and gladly took their money), then suddenly updated the game, preventing them from using something that they paid for and had previously worked fine. This could have been avoided by preventing people from playing the game without the required minimum spec, and they could have requested a refund at that time. It's completely understandable for people to be upset about that.

Except they aren't taking anything away. That's the point this whole...debate hinges on. The Minimum Specs listed on Steam for the CPU are "Intel Core i7-4790K or AMD Ryzen 5 1500X". To the best of my knowledge, those have remained unchanged since launch. Both CPUs support AVX2 and always have. The fact that people who had systems that were not equal to or greater than those CPUs but decided to willfully and purposefully ignore those specs, buy the game, and got lucky that it played at all is not the fault of the developer nor Sony. This is entirely on those who, again, willfully and purposefully ignored the minimum specifications and spent their money anyway.

jdreyer wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 23:26:
To co-opt BoP's truck analogy: The Cybertruck spec said the max towing capacity was 10,000 pounds, but BoP was regularly towing 15,000 pounds in his hot pink Cybertruck without issue for months after purchase. Then Elon updated the software and suddenly the truck wouldn't go into gear with a load over 10,000. Now BoP is very detail oriented, and he may have been fine with that update, but I bet most people would want to use their truck without such restrictions.

How dare you, sir! HOW DARE YOU! A Cybertruck?!

While that may disgruntle some people, they have to accept that they were operating the vehicle outside the stated parameters of the truck's capabilities. They knew they were both overloading the truck and operating it outside of the expected towing capacity of the vehicle.

At what point do we stop pointing the finger at anyone else except the person who made the error? At what point do we tell someone "Shut up and accept responsibility and accountability for your own, unforced actions"? No one forced those who do not meet the minimum specs to buy the game. No one forced them to ignore the same minimum specs. They chose to do so willingly of their own accord.

jdreyer wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 23:26:
This isn't the first time Sony has done this for this game. Upon their Steam launch for HD2, they allowed people to purchase and play the game without a PSN account. Then several months later they decided to require it. There was a huge outcry, and they had to back down.

Totally different kettle of worms. The PSN account requirement was after the fact and after the game had been on sale for some time. That's retroactively changing the terms of an agreed upon purchase, which is illegal in most civilized countries. Hell, it's illegal in some parts of the US as well.

We don't get to make excuses for people's poor judgement nor do we get to lambast the developers for using a technology that requires the use of an extension that is supposed to be in every system that at least meets the minimum spec.That's why it's a minimum spec and posted for all to see prior to the purchase. That information was available to everyone.

Oh, btw, sent you an email through the site.

The problem here is that Sony and Arrowhead are taking something away that they previously gave, and that's why people are upset. They allowed people to play without having AVX2 (and gladly took their money), then suddenly updated the game, preventing them from using something that they paid for and had previously worked fine. This could have been avoided by preventing people from playing the game without the required minimum spec, and they could have requested a refund at that time. It's completely understandable for people to be upset about that.

To co-opt BoP's truck analogy: The Cybertruck spec said the max towing capacity was 10,000 pounds, but BoP was regularly towing 15,000 pounds in his hot pink Cybertruck without issue for months after purchase. Then Elon updated the software and suddenly the truck wouldn't go into gear with a load over 10,000. Now BoP is very detail oriented, and he may have been fine with that update, but I bet most people would want to use their truck without such restrictions.

This isn't the first time Sony has done this for this game. Upon their Steam launch for HD2, they allowed people to purchase and play the game without a PSN account. Then several months later they decided to require it. There was a huge outcry, and they had to back down.

No, actually I don't like it because it is a false comparison. I don't blindly defend the little guy; you must not have seen or have forgotten all of the times that I have taken the little guy to task for being dumb. You know me; I'm an easy going and friendly guy. But you will not get a pass from me for acting elitist. You and I have clashed about that before, so it should be no surprise. I'm a stubborn ass Italian when I want to be. Let this one go. Trust me. Agree to disagree and move on.

Prez wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 21:29:
Completely false comparison. But you do you.

You're not changing my mind on this. Best to call me an asshole and move along.

Not at all. You simply don't like it because it does not agree with you, amigo. The point is that, much like my truck, the limitations are inherently expressed within the documentation. In the truck's case, the manual. In the game's case, it's the minimum requirements. That a person can operate outside of those limitations isn't the fault of the product itself.

I'm not going to call you an asshole simply because we disagree. That is childish. What I will say is that you are so emotionally invested in "standing up for the little guy", no matter the scenario, that your judgement is clouded on this. It's not condescending or elitist to point out that a person's problems stem from them operating a product outside the expected and stated limitations. Could the deliveries have been a little less acerbic in some cases? Probably.

Completely false comparison. But you do you.

You're not changing my mind on this. Best to call me an asshole and move along.

If you want an even more apt comparison your truck probably has a tow capacity for regular towing and electronic braking system towing, which will generally be higher. If you decide to tow at the higher tow rating without the breaking system, eventually something will screw up. It's not the company's fault for telling you that past a certain weight limit you need electronic brakes on your trailer to tow it safely no matter how many times you tow that weight with a trailer that has no breaks. It's not technobabble. It's there for a reason.

Prez wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 18:34:
I've been accused of far worse things than having empathy

I don't think you can call it empathy when the wound is self-inflicted by a third party unto themselves.

Say I use my half ton truck to tow a dump truck. My truck has a tiny tow capacity. Just 11,000 pounds.The average, unladen dump truck weighs between 20,000 to 35,000 pounds. My owner's manual clearly states the towing capacity. It does not specify that I cannot tow a dump truck.

Now, I could probably get away with towing that dump truck once, maybe even twice for a short distance. But if the transmission croaks or another mechanical failure happens, who is to blame? I mean, the manual didn't specifically state I couldn't tow a dump truck.

Is it RAM's fault or mine that I now have a broken truck?

I've been accused of far worse things than having empathy

I'm upset and so angry!

Wait, no I'm not. I don't play the game. I don't even own it. Becoming aggrieved on behalf of others or licking the boots of corporate overmasters seems rather silly in my position.

RogueSix wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 16:49:

JTW wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 13:41:
It's neither. It's on the purchaser to ensure that they're actually capable of running the product.

Exactly. But a basic prerequisite would be for HD2 players to actually be able to read (a.k.a literacy) and anyone who is playing this game is obviously a low scorer as far as anything that requires an IQ is concerned so...

This is actually an established fact because Sony had the requirement for a PSN account on the store page from day 1 as well and then when they finally did enforce it (unfortunately only temporarily as Sony were too weak to resist the whining of the numb nuts) people went ballistic because no one was fucking literate enough to read the store page. HD2 attracts mouthbreathers. Fact. Scientifically proven beyond a doubt.

All is right with the world, finally.

JTW wrote on Mar 28, 2025, 13:41:
It's neither. It's on the purchaser to ensure that they're actually capable of running the product.

Exactly. But a basic prerequisite would be for HD2 players to actually be able to read (a.k.a literacy) and anyone who is playing this game is obviously a low scorer as far as anything that requires an IQ is concerned so...

This is actually an established fact because Sony had the requirement for a PSN account on the store page from day 1 as well and then when they finally did enforce it (unfortunately only temporarily as Sony were too weak to resist the whining of the numb nuts) people went ballistic because no one was fucking literate enough to read the store page. HD2 attracts mouthbreathers. Fact. Scientifically proven beyond a doubt.