VaranDragon wrote on Mar 13, 2025, 03:40:

Beamer wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 11:35:

Think about an abusive relationship. The first thing an abuser does is isolate the victim from its friends and family and convince the victim that only they, the abuser, can ever love and help them.

I don't think this analogy would work. Nations fight back. The downtrodden always rise from the grave.

Let me "yes, but."
First, I do acknowledge my response was mostly flippant, as it can be hard to explain what looks irrational, and it sure looks irrational to me. It was, however, something that made my wife laugh.

But I don't think it's wholly wrong. I am not referring to us, the people, as the ones in the abusive relationship. I mean the politicians. If we anger our allies, we're more reliant upon what we have internally. To buy debt. To advise. The hyperwealthy feel the US government is better going to them first, rather than going to, say, the UK or France, for any need.

I mean, we have absolute scum of the Earth braindead Senators saying that Canada is the enemy because it's overrun by Mexican cartels (huh?) and bringing fentanyl into the US (even though all evidence shows it flowing the other direction.) We're doing insane things. But it pushes away one source of help and makes our government more reliant upon another.

I think what these billionaires forget is how much of value creation they pushed onto the federal government since the 80s, when they decided stock buybacks were better than creating actual value.

Beamer wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 11:35:

Think about an abusive relationship. The first thing an abuser does is isolate the victim from its friends and family and convince the victim that only they, the abuser, can ever love and help them.

I don't think this analogy would work. Nations fight back. The downtrodden always rise from the grave.

Beamer wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 07:21:
JD Vance gushes over Curtis Yarvin and a return to company towns, only ones the federal government has no jurisdiction over (zero regulations or even need for FDA approval before testing.)

So he wants Outer Wilds...

Dumber and dumber.

VaranDragon wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 10:41:

Beamer wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 09:46:

VaranDragon wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 09:31:

To me this sounds insane, why would corporate interests be in favor of this new reality, what is there to gain from it?

The corporate interests are heavily silicon valley tech oligarchs, and this makes a lot of sense:

1) Their entire business model is based around nearly-free capital. When interest rates rose, their supply of capital dried up. This has ground their entire operations to a halt, and is why they turned so radically when interest rates rose. Suddenly their entire source of wealth was at threat. When they could borrow millions of dollars at 2%, they only needed a 4% return to double their money. When they are instead borrowing at 5%, things get murky, and this really, really set them off.

2) Their actual liquidity is from shares they borrowed against. Let's say Tesla is at 400, and Elon Musk borrows against a million shares, he just borrowed $400M. If Tesla falls to 200, he now borrowed $400M and only put $200M up, so he actually made out on the deal. This heavily insulates billionaires against falling stocks, at least in the short term

3) Regulations have been the bane of existence for people like Peter Thiel and Musk, who are doing things they feel are world-changing. You know, sending people to space, putting chips in their brains, etc. Both have been adamant that regulations are a problem for them. Project 2025 is very much about reducing or removing regulations. Removing oversights. How much faster can Musk put a chip in a human's brain if he doesn't need to worry about killing a few thousand rats first? How much easier is it to scale up a gig economy business if you don't have regulations around providing health insurance or overtime for your gig employees?

4) Keeping labor down. Again, Musk has been heavily anti-union. The oligarchs also see their own obsession with their wealth as a virtue in their employees that don't truly share in it. Musk repeatedly rewards people that sleep in the office for days or weeks at a time (and also doesn't reward others doing it.) Google's CEO just came out and said that 60 hour weeks is the epitome of productivity, despite damn near every single study showing the actual number is somewhere in the low 30s. Probably also not a real coincidence that tech VCs got obsessive behind Trump at the same time that other countries started looking at 4 day workweeks.



All in all, what Trump is doing, and what Project 2025 is set up for, is removing as many safe-guards and worker protections as possible. This means lower interest rates to boost the wealth of the already hyperwealthy. This means reductions in worker protections that "slow down productivity." This means reductions in consumer protections, like how the Supreme Court was really keen to allow more sewage in our drinking water. This means reductions in consumer protections like how Trump has reduced the ability of the federal government to oversee digital banking around the same time Musk kicks off building digital banking in X.

Okay, all of this makes sense (in a weird fucked up sociopathic kind of way) but it still doesn't explain why the US has to destroy it's very deep economic and security ties it has built up since World War 2. I would have thought that globalization would be kind of the ideal that these billionaire tech "bros" would aspire to, and the last thing they would want is the US turning into an isolationist pariah state, that only makes deals with Russia and other autocratic states. I guess Im just not smart enough to figure out their endgame here....I mean everything they are doing has been tried by autocratic governments before, and it has never ended well for them.

Think about an abusive relationship. The first thing an abuser does is isolate the victim from its friends and family and convince the victim that only they, the abuser, can ever love and help them.

Beamer wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 09:46:

VaranDragon wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 09:31:

To me this sounds insane, why would corporate interests be in favor of this new reality, what is there to gain from it?

The corporate interests are heavily silicon valley tech oligarchs, and this makes a lot of sense:

1) Their entire business model is based around nearly-free capital. When interest rates rose, their supply of capital dried up. This has ground their entire operations to a halt, and is why they turned so radically when interest rates rose. Suddenly their entire source of wealth was at threat. When they could borrow millions of dollars at 2%, they only needed a 4% return to double their money. When they are instead borrowing at 5%, things get murky, and this really, really set them off.

2) Their actual liquidity is from shares they borrowed against. Let's say Tesla is at 400, and Elon Musk borrows against a million shares, he just borrowed $400M. If Tesla falls to 200, he now borrowed $400M and only put $200M up, so he actually made out on the deal. This heavily insulates billionaires against falling stocks, at least in the short term

3) Regulations have been the bane of existence for people like Peter Thiel and Musk, who are doing things they feel are world-changing. You know, sending people to space, putting chips in their brains, etc. Both have been adamant that regulations are a problem for them. Project 2025 is very much about reducing or removing regulations. Removing oversights. How much faster can Musk put a chip in a human's brain if he doesn't need to worry about killing a few thousand rats first? How much easier is it to scale up a gig economy business if you don't have regulations around providing health insurance or overtime for your gig employees?

4) Keeping labor down. Again, Musk has been heavily anti-union. The oligarchs also see their own obsession with their wealth as a virtue in their employees that don't truly share in it. Musk repeatedly rewards people that sleep in the office for days or weeks at a time (and also doesn't reward others doing it.) Google's CEO just came out and said that 60 hour weeks is the epitome of productivity, despite damn near every single study showing the actual number is somewhere in the low 30s. Probably also not a real coincidence that tech VCs got obsessive behind Trump at the same time that other countries started looking at 4 day workweeks.



All in all, what Trump is doing, and what Project 2025 is set up for, is removing as many safe-guards and worker protections as possible. This means lower interest rates to boost the wealth of the already hyperwealthy. This means reductions in worker protections that "slow down productivity." This means reductions in consumer protections, like how the Supreme Court was really keen to allow more sewage in our drinking water. This means reductions in consumer protections like how Trump has reduced the ability of the federal government to oversee digital banking around the same time Musk kicks off building digital banking in X.

Okay, all of this makes sense (in a weird fucked up sociopathic kind of way) but it still doesn't explain why the US has to destroy it's very deep economic and security ties it has built up since World War 2. I would have thought that globalization would be kind of the ideal that these billionaire tech "bros" would aspire to, and the last thing they would want is the US turning into an isolationist pariah state, that only makes deals with Russia and other autocratic states. I guess Im just not smart enough to figure out their endgame here....I mean everything they are doing has been tried by autocratic governments before, and it has never ended well for them.

VaranDragon wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 09:31:

To me this sounds insane, why would corporate interests be in favor of this new reality, what is there to gain from it?

The corporate interests are heavily silicon valley tech oligarchs, and this makes a lot of sense:

1) Their entire business model is based around nearly-free capital. When interest rates rose, their supply of capital dried up. This has ground their entire operations to a halt, and is why they turned so radically when interest rates rose. Suddenly their entire source of wealth was at threat. When they could borrow millions of dollars at 2%, they only needed a 4% return to double their money. When they are instead borrowing at 5%, things get murky, and this really, really set them off.

2) Their actual liquidity is from shares they borrowed against. Let's say Tesla is at 400, and Elon Musk borrows against a million shares, he just borrowed $400M. If Tesla falls to 200, he now borrowed $400M and only put $200M up, so he actually made out on the deal. This heavily insulates billionaires against falling stocks, at least in the short term

3) Regulations have been the bane of existence for people like Peter Thiel and Musk, who are doing things they feel are world-changing. You know, sending people to space, putting chips in their brains, etc. Both have been adamant that regulations are a problem for them. Project 2025 is very much about reducing or removing regulations. Removing oversights. How much faster can Musk put a chip in a human's brain if he doesn't need to worry about killing a few thousand rats first? How much easier is it to scale up a gig economy business if you don't have regulations around providing health insurance or overtime for your gig employees?

4) Keeping labor down. Again, Musk has been heavily anti-union. The oligarchs also see their own obsession with their wealth as a virtue in their employees that don't truly share in it. Musk repeatedly rewards people that sleep in the office for days or weeks at a time (and also doesn't reward others doing it.) Google's CEO just came out and said that 60 hour weeks is the epitome of productivity, despite damn near every single study showing the actual number is somewhere in the low 30s. Probably also not a real coincidence that tech VCs got obsessive behind Trump at the same time that other countries started looking at 4 day workweeks.



All in all, what Trump is doing, and what Project 2025 is set up for, is removing as many safe-guards and worker protections as possible. This means lower interest rates to boost the wealth of the already hyperwealthy. This means reductions in worker protections that "slow down productivity." This means reductions in consumer protections, like how the Supreme Court was really keen to allow more sewage in our drinking water. This means reductions in consumer protections like how Trump has reduced the ability of the federal government to oversee digital banking around the same time Musk kicks off building digital banking in X.

ZeroPike1 wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 08:28:

VaranDragon wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 04:20:
What exactly is Project 2025? I've heard about it online, but so far all I've read has been deep conspiracy theory territory, I.E. nutjob bullshit for nutjobs.

Does anyone have any reputable links that discuss this, and maybe even some links to the original documents of that particular manifesto? Thanks.

Yeah, keep this all in mind, its not conspiracy theory anymore, its the new reality.

Thanks for the reply Beamer. I was unaware that this is basically something that is in the open like that. It doesn't sound that scary, unless you read between the lines. The "conspiracy" part, according to those in the "know" anyway, is that the Project 2025 plan is part of a wider scope of turning the US into a totalitarian state of some kind, including but not limited to destroying the EU, and turning US allies against each other....

To me this sounds insane, why would corporate interests be in favor of this new reality, what is there to gain from it?

VaranDragon wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 04:20:
What exactly is Project 2025? I've heard about it online, but so far all I've read has been deep conspiracy theory territory, I.E. nutjob bullshit for nutjobs.

Does anyone have any reputable links that discuss this, and maybe even some links to the original documents of that particular manifesto? Thanks.

Yeah, keep this all in mind, its not conspiracy theory anymore, its the new reality.

VaranDragon wrote on Mar 12, 2025, 04:20:
What exactly is Project 2025? I've heard about it online, but so far all I've read has been deep conspiracy theory territory, I.E. nutjob bullshit for nutjobs.

Does anyone have any reputable links that discuss this, and maybe even some links to the original documents of that particular manifesto? Thanks.

Project 2025 is the brainchild of Russell Bought, now the Director of the Office of Management and Budget, and Kevin Roberts, whose book last year has a foreword by JD Vance. It was put out by The Heritage Foundation, the most influential think tank in the US and one who Trump followed over 2/3 of their policy recommendations the first time around.

You can find the full text of the project here. https://www.project2025.org/

You can find Project 2025 trackers out there, like here. https://www.project2025.observer/

What's fun is people here, and Trump, swore it was unconnected, but Trump has done multiple things in it that he promised not to do. Not that he's ever been above a flip flop. The price of eggs didn't come down day 1. Tariffs are on then off then delayed then on. But hey, at least the DoE is gutted!

If you really want a rabbit hole of conspiracy, ignore Project 2025, which isn't conspiracy, and go listen to an interview in which JD Vance gushes over Curtis Yarvin and a return to company towns, only ones the federal government has no jurisdiction over (zero regulations or even need for FDA approval before testing.)

What exactly is Project 2025? I've heard about it online, but so far all I've read has been deep conspiracy theory territory, I.E. nutjob bullshit for nutjobs.

Does anyone have any reputable links that discuss this, and maybe even some links to the original documents of that particular manifesto? Thanks.

gsilver wrote on Mar 11, 2025, 20:15:
Ignoring the surrounding shitshow... what is supposed to be accomplished by this?

Other than making headlines and trying to start so many fires that any pushback gets hopelessly spread-out and reduces the chances of any particular thing getting stopped to maximize collateral damage, of course.
Whoops. I said that I'd try to ignore the surrounding shitshow. My bad.

It’s project 2025. the raw idea of it is to bring America into a Christo-fascist country. It includes burning everything and everyone down to do so. Including US trade partners.

This part of the plan.

The problem is the plan clashes with reality at every step. Since only a handful of people want it and are rich enough to survive the economic crash to jump start the plan.

See how they are spinning the market crashing as all part of his plan? It will all be better in a while? This is by design and trump is ether onboard with P2025 or a dim witted puppet to it.

Ignoring the surrounding shitshow... what is supposed to be accomplished by this?

Other than making headlines and trying to start so many fires that any pushback gets hopelessly spread-out and reduces the chances of any particular thing getting stopped to maximize collateral damage, of course.
Whoops. I said that I'd try to ignore the surrounding shitshow. My bad.

Slick wrote on Mar 11, 2025, 18:14:
What's hysterical is him continually saying Canada would become the "51'st state"

Most of our provinces are bigger than Texas.

While geographically true, the provinces are mostly empty. Mrs. Burrito was a Canadian and liked to return home when possible, which was often. Many times she would drag me along and we'd go on adventures so she could show me her home country. So I'm not an entirely pig ignorant American speaking out of his ass.

Here's the forward looking problem with Canada becoming the "51st state". While Canada would undoubtedly cause a demographic upset in voting, that's only temporary. As climate change worsens and more of the southern half of the US becomes unlivable, those people are going to relocate. Where would they relocate? Why, where land is plentiful and cheap which would be the new 51st (and 52nd, 53rd, and so on) states! So you would have a generational influx of the kind of ideology that makes the GOP possible. Alberta is already the Canadian version of Alabama, do you want that to spread throughout the whole of Canada? Plus, of course, you would lose the metric system, Tim Horton's, Harvey's, that strategic maple syrup reserve, and you could watch the pristine wilderness be completely logged, drilled, strip mined, and paved over to barren plains as US corporations swooped in to pillage, plunder, and poison every natural resource possible. Just like has happened here and Trump is looking to worsen here. Because you would also lose the protections you currently enjoy.

Better for Canada to stand on its own.

What's hysterical is him continually saying Canada would become the "51'st state"

Most of our provinces are bigger than Texas.

If they wanted to make a reasonable ask to join the union, it would have to include all provinces and territories equally gaining statehood.

This will obvious never happen, because in one fell swoop the GOP would never win an election again.

You want us? 26 more US senators plz!

Just invade Canada already!

Canadian here. Truly embarrassing to watch Ford gargle trumps balls after less than 24 hrs saying how tuff he is. The free world is going away fast. There is nobody going to help us.

His diet will catch up to him sooner or later, even more so at that age. That will leave Vance who has zero "Cult of Personality" and near zero political power. Once time catches up to the T man in theory this all falls apart. With all the power in the GOP condensed into one man, the point of failure becomes that one man.

Until then I suggest, if you do stocks, put your money into anything not in the US. Because this is only just starting to fall apart and we have not seen the worst of it yet.

Some would wager we've already lost, and what response there is from any sort of resistance is that of too little, too late.

We're effed. It's not just Trump, though; it's the entire administration. They all must go.

Dan =0|

Simon Says wrote on Mar 11, 2025, 12:56:
Incredible how a single manchild's malignant narcissism will mean hundreds of millions of US citizens will needlessly suffer in the name of his extremely insecure ego. Not to mention the collaterals all over the world.

I call it now, either you get rid of him and the ideology he preaches, or you are all going down with him the same way narcissist cult leaders ( like among others, Jim Jones ) make their followers go down with them instead of facing their insecurities.

His sugar glass fragile self-esteem is more important than all the world's people, you're playing with nuclear fire, remember that when you think he has the launch codes for the nuclear arsenal, pure madness.

I couldn't agree more. I still don't really understand how he won, although the dems not having their shit together at all until a few months out certainly helped pave the way. If the GoP doesn't come together and impeach him then I don't really think we'll have a true democracy (or republic, etc) again. Elections will REALLY be rigged, from the people running them to the machines, etc. Or they just won't leave office, period. And in 4 years Trump will have all the military cultists in place to make sure they don't step in. These are stunningly scary times in this country.

Incredible how a single manchild's malignant narcissism will mean hundreds of millions of US citizens will needlessly suffer in the name of his extremely insecure ego. Not to mention the collaterals all over the world.

I call it now, either you get rid of him and the ideology he preaches, or you are all going down with him the same way narcissist cult leaders ( like among others, Jim Jones ) make their followers go down with them instead of facing their insecurities.

His sugar glass fragile self-esteem is more important to him than all the world's people, you're playing with nuclear fire, remember that when you think he has the launch codes for the nuclear arsenal, pure madness.

This comment was edited on Mar 11, 2025, 20:43.