On Duke's Date

Game maker Take-Two reports lower profits (thanks Action Vault) is a Reuters story that clarifies a recent report on the status of Duke Nukem Forever's release date that was a bit unclear at first about whether the news that Duke's next adventure would not be available until 2002 (story) referred to the PC version, the console ports, or both. This report is based on the same conference call as the original one, and says: "The company said on a conference call that its long-awaited title Duke Nukem Forever for the PC will not ship in the fourth quarter, as planned, but Paul Eibler, Take-Two's president, said that will not affect fourth quarter guidance." Of course, if Duke was actually "planned" for a Q4 release this year as the report states, it would have been internally, as the stated release date for this game since the project's inception has been "when it's done," so it's really not fair to say the game is delayed.
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61 Replies. 4 pages. Viewing page 1.
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61.
 
Re: Duke Nukem Forever
Sep 7, 2001, 07:55
anon@199.179
61.
Re: Duke Nukem Forever Sep 7, 2001, 07:55
Sep 7, 2001, 07:55
anon@199.179
 
"Right now they are proberly checking out Max Payne to see what it can do that they can't."

Er dude ,Remedy is associated with 3drealms.
60.
 
Duke Nukem Forever
Sep 7, 2001, 06:37
anon@62.49
60.
Duke Nukem Forever Sep 7, 2001, 06:37
Sep 7, 2001, 06:37
anon@62.49
 
One thing seems to be clear, the "Forever" in the title seems to refer to the development time required to finish it

IMHO this is because they are playing catchup on the tech and engine stakes. Right now they are proberly checking out Max Payne to see what it can do that they can't.
At their speeds the next ID title will be out first which will have more features and a better engine.
Is DNF gonna use the new Unreal 2 engine?

Yes, Halflife was great and was based on an outdated engine ( Quake1 ) so maybe they DNF will be so strong on story etc that engine won't matter too much. Does anyone remember the story from the original Duke Nukem 3D? It was basically a comic book version of Doom.

BTW: Unreal engine better than Quake 3 engine ? who are you trying to kid? The Quake 3 engine with it's metalic reflective surfaces, curved surfaces, multiple shaders, tuning options, diversity of player modals ( Orb, TankJnr pass some of the 3rd patry split creature models), tarrian etc.

Thank you for listening.
I'll take the red pill anyday, along with a couple of Prozac.
59.
 
Re: Wait
Sep 7, 2001, 05:33
59.
Re: Wait Sep 7, 2001, 05:33
Sep 7, 2001, 05:33
 
anon@194.154 :
"half-life is actually based on the quake2 engine not quake1"

Actually you couldn't be more wrong here, the Half-life engine is based on the Quake(1) engine NOT Quake2, anyone who has edited levels for all three games can easily see that.

Q2 and HL has different ways of handling colored lighting, HL uses the Q1-style .wad system for textures, while Q2 used a completely different system. HL doesn't have the Surface Properties like Q2 either. I'm sure people who have coded, made models or whatever for these games will see the same pattern.

Also valve has told people this in interviews etc. ever since before HL came out, so by now everyone interested should know it, Half-life is based on the QUAKE 1 ENGINE.

BicycleRepairMan

"And so that me'lord is how we know the earth to be banana-shaped"
58.
 
Re: Wait
Sep 7, 2001, 04:46
anon@194.154
58.
Re: Wait Sep 7, 2001, 04:46
Sep 7, 2001, 04:46
anon@194.154
 
half-life is actually based on the quake2 engine not quake1.

but you're right it even kicks the crap out of all the quake3a based games
57.
 
DIAKACRAPPA
Sep 7, 2001, 01:14
anon@65.14
57.
DIAKACRAPPA Sep 7, 2001, 01:14
Sep 7, 2001, 01:14
anon@65.14
 


NOTHING is as bad as diakacrappa except MYST

56.
 
DIAKACRAPPA
Sep 7, 2001, 01:14
anon@65.14
56.
DIAKACRAPPA Sep 7, 2001, 01:14
Sep 7, 2001, 01:14
anon@65.14
 
NOTHING is as bad as diakacrappa except MYST
55.
 
Where have all the gamers gone?
Sep 7, 2001, 01:05
anon@134.197
55.
Where have all the gamers gone? Sep 7, 2001, 01:05
Sep 7, 2001, 01:05
anon@134.197
 
It's one thing to criticize 3D Realms for taking so long with DNF because you want to play it, but it's certainly something else to criticize it from a business perspective.

What serious gamer could possibly factor that into consideration? I don't know wether or not DNF is being delayed to do management problems, or wether 3D Realms is trying to craft a quality title, but if you really care about games, don't worry about the business part.

A number of programmers working in the industry I know complain that things have been going downhill since the mid-90's due to all the mass audience consumption and big business attitude towards games. Business is now a big part of games, but if you really have a passion for games, you'll at least try to ignore that nasty aspect of gaming.

And what's with all the complaints about the engine? Can gamers be that shallow? Graphics are a huge part of the experience, but have you become so spoiled that you would slam a game for having an outdated graphics engine? Who cares?! If it's fun, it's fun, let's not speculate about how the graphics will compare to Doom 3.

It's funny, but with all the improvements in technology during the last decade, games are still expected to be on fairly short development cycles. Wouldn't it make some sense for certain games to take longer, since we expect more?

Technology changes at a quick pace (graphics technology in particular), so developers always try to keep up. But what if someone wanted to take their time, and thus ended up falling behind the current tech? Is it such a crime?

With such leaps and bounds being made in 3D graphics, it seems everyone has become driven by hype and eye candy. Let's get back to gaming, shall we? Heck, I wouldn't mind if DNF came out as a 2D side scroller (like the original Dukes!), as long as it's a fun game.

I don't know what the situation is with 3D Realms and DNF, maybe it really is over-hyped, but I think any developers out there who want to craft a good game and take their time will have to be super secretive in order to avoid your superficial criticism.
54.
 
Wait
Sep 6, 2001, 21:42
anon@63.80
54.
Wait Sep 6, 2001, 21:42
Sep 6, 2001, 21:42
anon@63.80
 
How long did Half-Life take to make?
At least 4 years.
And what engine was it built on?
Quake

At a time when Quake2 based games were emerging
Half-Life still kicked the crap out of all of them.
53.
 
Daikatana
Sep 6, 2001, 21:14
anon@129.81
53.
Daikatana Sep 6, 2001, 21:14
Sep 6, 2001, 21:14
anon@129.81
 
It's most likely gonna be like Daikatana. A much-hyped title that boasts a ton of new and evolutionary features, but takes eons to develop and therefore is outdated upon its release, making it very unpopular to a gaming community that is responsible for keeping it alive.

I loved Duke3D and I hope DNF is a great game. But, it have my second thoughts.
52.
 
No subject
Sep 6, 2001, 20:35
52.
No subject Sep 6, 2001, 20:35
Sep 6, 2001, 20:35
 
The 3D Realms team has no slack on their release date as of now. Their engine is out-dated, what support for them is now in the hands of 3D Realms fans with high hopes, and their work ethic must have been challenged several times over. It is a constant failure on their part to produce a game than cannot hold a candle to commonplace work ethic and effort among most game developers, whose effort has produced strong titles such as Soldier of Fortune, The Sims and Half-Life.

It is not beyond all reason to hope for a strong title from them; but as of late, the title has been delayed. Their delaying of the title has not only proved that one will not only need to wait longer, but will need to hope more than ever, that this title will become a break-through in any technological department.

Without straying from core elements of what makes a great game, though (Unreal survived on technology alone), we can only hope that Duke Nukem Forever has not lost its sense for great game play. Game play makes the game (or most games, at least). Without game play, the game will need technology. So in conclusion, Duke Nukem Forever may very well have to survive on great game play (and technology is a very much a standard in today's titles).

This game is using the Unreal engine I believe, which means it will not live up to current, extraordinary technological standards (which is what Quake 3 and F1 Racing Championship boasts).


51.
 
Re: No subject
Sep 6, 2001, 20:05
anon@208.61
51.
Re: No subject Sep 6, 2001, 20:05
Sep 6, 2001, 20:05
anon@208.61
 
Listen I was on the origianl aol channel for duke 3d. I raised so much hell about this stupid "when it is done" B.S. that George himself would email me and tell me to please STFU. This is nothing new for 3drealms. Difference now is Halo is coming and so is Return to Wolf and a host of others....thank God. The pukes over at 3d realms will now have to choke on a outdated engine and crappy graphics. Perhaps they should have gotten off their asses and finished this game 2 years ago.
50.
 
Re: When Its Done
Sep 6, 2001, 20:01
anon@66.41
50.
Re: When Its Done Sep 6, 2001, 20:01
Sep 6, 2001, 20:01
anon@66.41
 
Earthwar was the shit dude, i not only remember it, but continue playing it with my friends over LAN. bring it back dude
49.
 
No subject
Sep 6, 2001, 17:28
49.
No subject Sep 6, 2001, 17:28
Sep 6, 2001, 17:28
 
"When it's finished" is a more logical way to present a release date than "When it's done."

48.
 
Re: When Its Done
Sep 6, 2001, 17:12
48.
Re: When Its Done Sep 6, 2001, 17:12
Sep 6, 2001, 17:12
 
Mr. Nostromo,

In the words of Neo . . . "Whoa!"

Yeah, DNF has been a long time in coming. I don't forsee it being released this year. I did like the E3 demo, though I agree that certain elements didn't look that great (the jet-skis on the water, and some of the models look quite blocky, etc.) But people have a way of forgetting how long something took to come out once it arrives, and, people also have a way of accepting graphical shortcomings if the game is truely fun, kinda in the way that the Quake engine had better technology, but many feel that Duke 3D was more "fun" and therefor a better game (at least the single player game).

Of course Dukematch on TEN was a freaking blast. . . . but I digress. . . . .(anyone remember "earthwar"?)

In any case, I think the gaming industry is looking for legitimacy and mass appeal and I can see how gaming companies will move closer (at least in the short-term) to using the movie industry as a model. I think 3DR recognizes this. Did you notice the "movie credits-like" screen at the end of the DNF E3 video?

ZigZang
47.
 
Sweet Sassy Molassy!
Sep 6, 2001, 16:41
47.
Sweet Sassy Molassy! Sep 6, 2001, 16:41
Sep 6, 2001, 16:41
 
Peanut Butter and Jelly
Thats what I like in my Belly.

---~----~---
Why do I have a recurring dream involving myself, a picture frame factory, five iron, and a very large Baalrog?

That demonic bastard always kicks my ass.
46.
 
Liars
Sep 6, 2001, 16:01
anon@63.80
46.
Liars Sep 6, 2001, 16:01
Sep 6, 2001, 16:01
anon@63.80
 
You know that you all will buy DNF when it comes out...
Everybody wants it and everybody's gonna get it.
How do we know they are not done with the game already?
They could just be laughing at all of you cause you are all
bitching about when it's gonna be released.
We still have about 3 1/2 months till XMas.
I still believe that Duke is gonna destroy everything out
there......... Even Faction. Everyone keeps saying how
3DR keeps losing money but what you all don't realize is
that they have been releasing Duke games on consoles so they
get a lot of cash for that. They still make money off there
old games and I'm sure that people still buy Duke3D.
So quit your bitching. If you don't like what they are doing
don't by the game... or if you want it now make it yourselves.
45.
 
DNF blackout
Sep 6, 2001, 14:31
45.
DNF blackout Sep 6, 2001, 14:31
Sep 6, 2001, 14:31
 
The reason there's a media blackout on the development of DNF is likely because there IS no developement being made on DNF. As far as we all know they haven't done JACK since the E3 video a couple years ago.

I have to go along the same boat here, and simply state I don't care anymore about DNF, as well as TF2. Perhaps Blue should refrain from even mentioning these games until there been an official release date. If the reports is just going to be about another 6 month delay, who cares! We can just assume that if we don't hear anything, since that's all 3DR knows what to do anyway.

__ FRAGaLOT
44.
 
Don't really care much anymore
Sep 6, 2001, 13:48
anon@152.3
44.
Don't really care much anymore Sep 6, 2001, 13:48
Sep 6, 2001, 13:48
anon@152.3
 
I usually don't post on these things very much but I feel I need to respond to this. I am 34 years old and I have played and followed games for a long time and love them just as much as when I was a kid. I LOVED Duke Nukem 3D when it came out and played it from start to end many times just because I loved it so much. IMO it WAS the "Quake Killer" 3DR claimed it would be because, to me anyway, the game play was just more FUN overall than the original Quake (and FUN is what games are all about). I had NEVER played a game that had the level of interactivity (e.g. breakable objects, pool tables and...strippers *cough*). Anyway, my point is that when I first heard that a new Duke game would be made with total 'real' 3D I thought this was the best news EVER for fans of the original. Things happen, development engines change, production schedules slip and the gaming world waits for a great game to come, time passes...

Well the announcement of a new Duke game in development was a few years ago (summer of '98 i'm guessing?) and although i've been kinda disappointed, all through the past couple of years of development I held on to the hope that DNF would be coming "that year" even though the release date has been "when it's done" but, time passes...

After seeing the E3 video and thinking it was cool and considering it had 2001 plastered across the start of the new footage I had a good "gut feeling" that 2001 would be the year of Duke (I thought around maybe X-mas time). So now 2001 is getting closer to the end and we get an announcement now that DNF won't ship this year and honestly, I was REALLY disappointed when I heard this and now...I JUST DON'T REALLY CARE ANYMORE. I give up caring about this game although I believe it will be a cool, fun game I just can't get 'excited' about the prospect of it anymore *shrug* There are too many killer games coming out (probably sooner than DNF) that look AWESOME compared to the DNF E3 video and life in too short to pine away, waiting on DNF to finally hit the shelves. By the time it does come out it WILL look dated, this is inevitable because of the visual quality of the "newer" games coming out at the same time (kinda like the way Max Payne is raising the bar as far as texture quality goes).

Bottom line is:

Do I think the game will be released? Yes
Do I think the game will be fun? Yes

....Will I buy this game the first day it's out like I usually do? Nope

....Do I CARE if this game is EVER RELEASED? Not anymore and THAT is the damn shame of it all, 3D Realms has made me (through a lack of producing a product) not CARE about they're product anymore, period.
43.
 
Re: When Its Done
Sep 6, 2001, 13:18
43.
Re: When Its Done Sep 6, 2001, 13:18
Sep 6, 2001, 13:18
 
Zig / Sling,

Time to jump into this fray. IMHO, the lack of external information regarding the development of DNF was indeed a marketing maneuver on the part of 3DR. I also think it was a rather sly and calculated approach on the part of 3DR in an effort to protect the development team with regard to external pressures that could potentially cause internal rifts and/or development plan changes brought on by people who would over-analyze every detail of the game development. Now, with that being said. . . this once sly move has now become somewhat of a Catch 22 for 3DR due to the fact that they've been in development on DNF since well, what feels like the dawn of time. Certainly, as apparent in this thread, any information that is now being "leaked" about the completion of DNF is overly scrutinized by consumers, and rightfully so. Lets face it, I think I speak for us (and perhaps the majority of the gaming community) when I say that what once was a game that we would have pre-ordered or perhaps waited in line at our local retailer to purchase has now reached a "wait and see" status due to lack of information about the game coupled with the confusing and perhaps unjustifiable amount of time its taken them to develop this title. Granted, there have been many changes at 3DR, many changes in the software/hardware capabilities that pertain to gaming and game development, etc. that have been major hurdles for all involved with DNF. However, this is not unique to DNF. Again, the lack of information protects 3DR and allows them to change development parameters with little or no influence from external forces. However, I would now argue that its coming back around to hurt them since many of us now have raised the bar so high that it appears to be way, way out of reach if they are holding true to the parameters that we do know (or maybe we dont?) about the game and what it will be like.

Now. . .as for the "when it's done" deadline, I think its "technology evolution" thats really driving companies to use this statement, not the developers or the marketing departments. It has simply become a defacto answer to provide an out for adding/eliminating development parameters due to changes in the technical requirements of the game. IMHO, its better than missing deadlines in the majority of cases (and the majority will at least have a general statement about when development will be completed). All that does is cause frustration, pressure and concern on the part of everyone.

With all this being said . . .I think there are fingers to be pointed at both the developers and the marketing folks at 3DR with regard to DNF (or the lack thereof). Bottom line. . .they are hurting themselves at this point without providing the gaming community information on the status DNF. It once was an understandable maneuver . . .that no longer stands. They have pushed me into the "it better be REVOLUTIONARY" state-of-mind in order for me to be as impressed as I once thought I would be with DNF. Sorry, but the movie they released did not get me over that hurdle. Sure, they have held some impressive footage back for the release . . . but I am afraid that the jump they need to make is going to be too far for them to make.

In the words of Morpheus . . . Show Me!

Nostromo

This comment was edited on Sep 6, 13:25.
42.
 
Re: When Its Done
Sep 6, 2001, 11:19
42.
Re: When Its Done Sep 6, 2001, 11:19
Sep 6, 2001, 11:19
 
Actually Sling,

I was replying to #10 who stated how he would like to have "when its done" as a due date for his projects. My response was that even if the "public" hears "when its done" (Ie no public commitment to a release date) that there are internal due dates that that are more binding and the cause of more "pressure to get the game finished" than any consumer pressure to release the game. 3DR developers feel just as much pressure to get the game out regardless of what the marketing dept. doles out to the masses. So, I am not sure how much this practice actually "insulates" developers b/c the people they really have to answer to are the ones paying their checks.

My 2nd point, I think it can be argued, is that typically, during the development of anything, stakeholders are provided updates and status on progress. Many game developers are very active in keeping the gaming public informed. 3DR on the other hand chooses not to and I think its a crutch stemming from the early days of game development when games were literally worked on until they were done and project planning was an afterthought. That doesn't happen any more, at least not for high-profile companies and games. So I think this practice of telling consumers "it will be out when its out" is outdated. (say that 5 times real fast). You never hear Sony, Lucas or Paramount telling movie goers that Star Wars Ep. II or SpiderMan will be out "When were done with it"? No doesn't happen. Is it all marketing? Yes. Is it consumer focused? No.

ZigZang
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