I just can't stand Zuck, VR current tech still makes me nauseous, and the DLC business model of these last few Civ releases is just ridiculous....so I am hater right off the bat. full disclosure

That said, if I could use VR for longer then 5 minutes without getting sick, I would be looking for a Total War or Sims game instead of a Civ game. This seems a bit forced to me.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 10, 2025, 03:10:
Good, yes, and those were generally built from the ground up to be VR games.

And this isn't being built from the ground up for VR?

Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 10, 2025, 03:10:
What's the demographic size of those who want to wear a full on HMD and use controllers to play what is essentially a TBS with a lot of waiting?

This is the sort of questions these publishers ask, and considering they're funding it, the answer must be: "Enough". And considering this is being built for VR, it's very likely that there won't be that much waiting compared to the PC version.

Civ is a hugely popular franchise, the only reason for the negativity here is just that it's a VR title.

I have a unique take - I fucking love the idea myself. I, like basically everyone, immediately thought at first reading this was "what? Why?". The more I thought about it though...

If you look at it from the perspective of a person who can watch an entire 12 hour match of a Warhammer board game, where the playworld is almost as big as the room, this suddenly becomes exciting...

Yeah, and to add a disclaimer to that, I am aware that I am talking about a tiny niche, of an even more than tiny niche, but... phooey on everyone else.

There was a Civ-style turn based strategy game released for the Oculus Rift and Vive in the early VR days, called Skyworld. It was simpler than Civ (probably simpler than even Civilization Revolutions, iirc) but it was fun. It used this same kind of tabletop diorama.

RogueSix wrote on Feb 10, 2025, 11:03:
Apparently they want to put you in the position where you are moving about the virtual tabletop. While that might be cool for novelty's sake for a few turns, I bet this will become super-disorientating once you get past turn 50 or so, let alone when you are far advanced in 'one more turn' binge mode. Your head will likely literally be spinning like 'wait, where is my capital bro?!?'.

Can confirm. I got Triangle Strategy for the Quest, in an effort to find something to actually use it for (after picking one up for somewhat cheap on Black Friday). Similar deal, where you move around on the chessboard and (in theory) move the pieces with your hands.

I just don't like VR games in general. I didn't even enjoy Alyx that much. The novelty wears off so fast. And once that's gone, I'd much rather just sit down on my ass with a gamepad or kb/mouse, than awkwardly wave my arms about, or having to turn my head this way or that way with the FOV of someone trying to peer out of a mailbox and unable to use their eyeballs. It's disorienting and annoying. It also gets pretty damn clammy and sweaty for any 30+ minute session inside in the summer heat, unless you've got aircon blasting.

Not my worst purchase ever, but it's up there.

Apparently they want to put you in the position where you are moving about the virtual tabletop. While that might be cool for novelty's sake for a few turns, I bet this will become super-disorientating once you get past turn 50 or so, let alone when you are far advanced in 'one more turn' binge mode. Your head will likely literally be spinning like 'wait, where is my capital bro?!?'.

Yeah, I also think the audience for this will be pretty limited. Personally, I have zero interest in strapping a bulky TV to my head for a game like this. It can get hard enough in the mid/late game to keep track of your cities and units as it is in "2D", even on a 4K screen, all zoomed out. I don't even want to imagine how hard it would be in VR when you are on that actual playing field. Ugh.

HoSpanky wrote on Feb 10, 2025, 09:13:
I am *all for* more mainstream, big-name VR titles, but this….i dunno if this is a good fit. I GET that diorama games feel amazing, but there’s usually an AWFUL lot of not-playing with Civ games. Watching a little city go about its business on your coffee table will be neat for like, 10 minutes, and then you’re going to be cranky about the wait time for your turn. Civ players are gonna be annoyed at the game being cut down to make it VR-friendly, and VR players are likely gonna get bored/uncomfortable before they complete a single game of it.

VR developers are still trying to figure out what does and doesn’t work. It’s rare that there’s a game type that works for both flat and VR without sacrificing something, and THOSE games tend to be quite simple. Even Demeo, which has complex interactions, is still fairly simple.

I'm wagering it's a very, very small map, you're given a predefined unit set, and you just decide where to move and how to attack. Stripped down to the point that it's basically a smaller version of Sid Meier's Gettysburg. Or a cross between that and Into the Breach. 8x8 or 10x10 map.

I am *all for* more mainstream, big-name VR titles, but this….i dunno if this is a good fit. I GET that diorama games feel amazing, but there’s usually an AWFUL lot of not-playing with Civ games. Watching a little city go about its business on your coffee table will be neat for like, 10 minutes, and then you’re going to be cranky about the wait time for your turn. Civ players are gonna be annoyed at the game being cut down to make it VR-friendly, and VR players are likely gonna get bored/uncomfortable before they complete a single game of it.

VR developers are still trying to figure out what does and doesn’t work. It’s rare that there’s a game type that works for both flat and VR without sacrificing something, and THOSE games tend to be quite simple. Even Demeo, which has complex interactions, is still fairly simple.

Razumen wrote on Feb 10, 2025, 01:41:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 9, 2025, 23:28:
I'm sure this will sell hundreds of copies. Hundreds!

Lol, good VR titles can and do sell millions these days.

Good titles.....GOOD TITLES....:GOOOD

Razumen wrote on Feb 10, 2025, 01:41:
Lol, good VR titles can and do sell millions these days.

Good, yes, and those were generally built from the ground up to be VR games. But there's more to it than that. What's the demographic size of those who want to wear a full on HMD and use controllers to play what is essentially a TBS with a lot of waiting?

That seems like a really niche application to me.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Feb 9, 2025, 23:28:
I'm sure this will sell hundreds of copies. Hundreds!

Lol, good VR titles can and do sell millions these days.

I'm sure this will sell hundreds of copies. Hundreds!

Menus work fine in VR, if it's done well, you can even place them around you physically, letting you have more open at once and while having lots of viewing real estate for the game itself.

jdreyer wrote on Feb 9, 2025, 13:49:
I guess i won't knock it until I try it, but this feels like a solution in search of a problem.

That's a good way to put it. Seems like it would be a navigational nightmare for any regular 4X strategy gamer.

Oh I get that part, traditional menus and whatnot don't work in VR, I get taking their money I'm mostly frustrated as hell at how bad Civ7 is and seeing this announcement adds to the frustration. I also couldn't imagine using my Oculus for something like this; tried a few table top type games in VR and... it wasn't fun (picking up the wrong pieces accidentally, odd camera angles, was fun knocking table over once or twice though...).

Those motherfuckers didn't even use a Space X rocket ship in the game, Elon is going to sue for sure!

Dwarf-Snowninja wrote on Feb 9, 2025, 14:11:
After seeing just how ugly and unintuitive the UI is, languages are missing, and certain design changes were omitted (automating exploration, tech tree, and more)... why this?

Because interacting with deep menus wouldn't be even remotely fun in VR.
This is Meta paying for the development of an off-shoot. It's similar to the augmented reality Minecraft that Microsoft showed nearly a decade ago for the Hololens. Similar to that, it's a stripped down version that features what works well on a table-top while removing the other components that do not.

This isn't Civ 7, it's a tabletop game based around Civ 7. Much like how there was one a Civilization boardgame that stripped a lot out.

After seeing just how ugly and unintuitive the UI is, languages are missing, and certain design changes were omitted (automating exploration, tech tree, and more)... why this?

I guess i won't knock it until I try it, but this feels like a solution in search of a problem.