RogueSix wrote on Jan 9, 2025, 01:40:
That's not what you said though . You said "the last thing I saw was they were going to make an announcement in February".

That was the last thing I remember seeing. I mixed up the announcement and speculated release window. I remember someone commenting on how they announced they were going to make an announcement.

MeanJim wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 22:07:

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 16:04:

MeanJim wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 15:14:
I doubt I can return it since I've opened the box.

Depends how long ago you got it. Most places take stuff back for a full refund even if the box is open.
Here in Canada I usually get my stuff from Canada Computers or BestBuy and they have 14-30 days return policy for full refund on stuff like this.
It may be worth a try

At the time of that post I had only cut the seal and opened the box. I never took the GPU out. I was looking to see what the power connector looked like so I could get the right cable for the PSU. I've already completed the build now though. I haven't powered it up yet.

I think I made the right decision to get it when I did. It was the first part I ordered because I saw them dropping out of stock, and I looked just now at all of the usual places and I don't see any 4080 Super's in stock.

I may try to buy a 5080 at release and then sell this one. I'm already going to sell my 3070, so maybe between the two it will work out even. Of course that all depends on seeing real world benchmarks, it may turn out to not be worth the hassle.

Sounds like a solid plan. The 4080S is still a very good GPU that won't disappoint. I think the 5080 would only be about 20% faster in raw performance without the Ai magic. Like you said it may not worth the hassle.
I cannot wait for the reviews. Hopefully the embargo lifts soon.

MeanJim wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 15:14:

RogueSix wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 20:47:
I would say it's been an open "secret" (i.e. none) that the RTX 5000 series would be unveiled at CES for at least six months now. You gotta update your sources. Whoever suggested last month that there would be an announcement in February is plain clueless because last month nVidia themselves announced the CES keynote. It was obvious that Huang would announce new products when holding a keynote at the Consumer Electronics Show.

My sources come from this little known site called Blues News. I remember seeing that announcement link, but it was speculated that the cards wouldn't be released until at least February most likely March. I didn't want to wait that long and risk fighting with scalpers to get a new card. I might have though different if I knew they were coming out this soon. I doubt I can return it since I've opened the box.

That's not what you said though . You said "the last thing I saw was they were going to make an announcement in February".

I think it is safe to say that everyone was expecting that the cards would be announced at CES on January 6th but not with immediate availability as that would be weird and even a bit stupid right after Xmas/NYE. Most people were expecting nVidia to announce (at CES) availability later in January or in February (going by news articles on WCCFTech, Videocardz and the usual suspects).

Personally, I was expecting them to announce (at CES) availability throughout February/March. I was slightly surprised when they announced availability as early as January 30th, which actually is almost Feb so not a huuuge difference. January 30th is a Thursday so actual real life availability will be more like from February and it will certainly be late February/March until most of the custom models are also available.

If anyone doesn't want to pay an early adopter idiot's tax to the scalpers then you definitely need to wait another six to eight weeks for prices to shake out properly so we're talking late March, or more likely April/May, until the prices come down significantly.

So, if you did not want to wait much longer than February and avoid scalping then you made the right call . There will probably be the usual little scalping massacre when RTX 5000 are released but I'm sure things will settle down as we move into spring and especially summer.

SpectralMeat wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 16:04:

MeanJim wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 15:14:
I doubt I can return it since I've opened the box.

Depends how long ago you got it. Most places take stuff back for a full refund even if the box is open.
Here in Canada I usually get my stuff from Canada Computers or BestBuy and they have 14-30 days return policy for full refund on stuff like this.
It may be worth a try

At the time of that post I had only cut the seal and opened the box. I never took the GPU out. I was looking to see what the power connector looked like so I could get the right cable for the PSU. I've already completed the build now though. I haven't powered it up yet.

I think I made the right decision to get it when I did. It was the first part I ordered because I saw them dropping out of stock, and I looked just now at all of the usual places and I don't see any 4080 Super's in stock.

I may try to buy a 5080 at release and then sell this one. I'm already going to sell my 3070, so maybe between the two it will work out even. Of course that all depends on seeing real world benchmarks, it may turn out to not be worth the hassle.

MeanJim wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 15:14:
I doubt I can return it since I've opened the box.

Depends how long ago you got it. Most places take stuff back for a full refund even if the box is open.
Here in Canada I usually get my stuff from Canada Computers or BestBuy and they have 14-30 days return policy for full refund on stuff like this.
It may be worth a try

RogueSix wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 20:47:
I would say it's been an open "secret" (i.e. none) that the RTX 5000 series would be unveiled at CES for at least six months now. You gotta update your sources. Whoever suggested last month that there would be an announcement in February is plain clueless because last month nVidia themselves announced the CES keynote. It was obvious that Huang would announce new products when holding a keynote at the Consumer Electronics Show.

My sources come from this little known site called Blues News. I remember seeing that announcement link, but it was speculated that the cards wouldn't be released until at least February most likely March. I didn't want to wait that long and risk fighting with scalpers to get a new card. I might have though different if I knew they were coming out this soon. I doubt I can return it since I've opened the box.

VaranDragon wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 06:44:

Overon wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 05:52:
Nvidia is following the old "as much as the market can bare" pricing strategy. Which is now even more effective given that AMD has ceded the high end completely to Nvidia and they have no competition. Frankly they can jack up the price more, I think the market can bare it. But I do find it amusing that the 5070 is $549 in 2025 and only has 12 GB of video RAM.

AMD is simply not giving them any kind of proper competition, especially in the high end, and the high end stuff ends up "selling" the mid-range to low end stuff, as people will usually go for brand name recognition over real world numbers.

Well at least before AMD tried to be competitive with Nvidia at the high end. Now they aren't even trying and explicitly saying they are not.

Slick wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 10:47:
and won't play MSFS 2024 until you have a 5090? For "maximum peace of mind"???

Breh.

I can run CP2077 at 4k with path tracing just fine with my 4090. Any more so and it doesn't make the experience better, it turns it into a soap opera. Same with MSFS 2024. You really think that you need 96 GB of ram just to enjoy it? You're kidding yourself, and possibly just reading too many clickbait articles.

No clickbait articles. I actually monitor shit myself . It's as simple as running MSI Afterburner overlay to figure out that MSFS easily gobbles up all 24GB of VRAM with the "right" add-ons . Again: You can not have enough graphical power for flight sims. Flight simming has always been the most demanding "gaming" discipline.

Regarding RAM, I have 64GB and MSFS (2020) uses about half of it when using complex study level aircraft and when you are flying in complex scenery like e.g. EGLL with OrbX Great Britain scenery packs.
I believe PC Gamer had a 96GB RAM test that supposedly showed gains in MSFS 2024 with regard to min fps but I would attribute that more to the unfinished nature of MSFS 2024 than anything else.

That's why I don't care about MSFS 2024 yet. It may be OK for Xbox/GamePass casuals who just want to fly a plane to watch some animals from that Frontier zoo game but it is unusable for "serious" simming. I hope that M$ get their shit together and fix it ASAP but based on the MSFS 2020 experience I'm not holding my breath. It took a long time to get 2020 to where it is today and it is a shame and a pity that M$ fucked up as hard as they did. We're back to square one and it will probably take many months before MSFS 2024 reaches an acceptable level of quality.
One can only hope that their MSFS 2020 experience will be helping Asobo in getting their shit together faster but they have an unfortunate habit of breaking things with their patches so it will be quite a struggle before MSFS 2024 is at least as good as MSFS 2020 is now (still a far cry from perfection btw)...

Anyway, the RTX 5090 will run Cyberpunk 2077 even "just finer" and many other games as well. Yes. The RTX 4090 might manage those games as well but why not run them even better on a RTX 5090, right? As I said, if the RTX 5090 can run a game at 4K@120fps on my 120Hz G-Sync compatible screen while staying cool and quiet then all the better!
That is an aspect I have really enjoyed about the RTX 4090. It's a powerful card so when I played AssCreed Valhalla, the card did not even come out of zero fan mode lol (or just barely). My rig is/was completely inaudible playing that game. How (literally) cool is that?

Sooo... RTX 5090 here I come. Let's do this shit!

jacobvandy wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 19:08:

Simon Says wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 17:15:
The fact that you need to buy a 1000$ 5080 to have the same amount of VRAM as a 4 years old console is patently absurd.

Those consoles have shared RAM, they do not have 16GB dedicated to graphics. Hell, a few GB are held in reserve strictly for their OS, completely unavailable for games to use at all (though the PS5 Pro apparently added 2GB of slower RAM to help free up some of that load).

Irrelevant, games coming from consoles use the full amount nonetheless and at worst, only use 12GB for the GPU. Also case in point, PS5 Pro now has a separate DDR pool for the system and leaves the whole 16GB available for games.

People keep GPUs 5 years + now. So not only is the 5080 doesn't have a cushion for the future increase in VRAM usage, it barely meets 4 years old console standards.

RogueSix wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 08:23:
snip

I don't know what you're on about.

You have a 4090, but you still haven't played CP2077 yet, and won't play MSFS 2024 until you have a 5090? For "maximum peace of mind"???

Breh.

I can run CP2077 at 4k with path tracing just fine with my 4090. Any more so and it doesn't make the experience better, it turns it into a soap opera. Same with MSFS 2024. You really think that you need 96 GB of ram just to enjoy it? You're kidding yourself, and possibly just reading too many clickbait articles.

My rig runs laps around both of these games at 4k, in the most demanding scenes. I don't know why you think for some reason you need to spend ANOTHER $1100-1300 just to enjoy these titles, when you CURRENTY HAVE THE BEST GPU ON THE PLANET BY A COUNTRY MILE lol.

RogueSix wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 17:48:

Xero wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 15:55:
Oh, what about the PSU requirement? That's a pretty big factor here, is it not? Wasn't it rumored to need 800w just for the GPU alone? So that plus everything else in the PC, you would require some new monster PSU. Curious how that's going to go.

As someone else stated, it is 575W for the RTX 5090 and this is not even new because some of the RTX 4090 custom models already pushed 600W. 600W is the max you can get out of the 12VHPWR rail and connector so if a card only has a single 12VHPWR connector then it is a dead giveaway that the card will not draw more than 600W (well, technically it is 675W max because the 16x PCIe slot itself delivers up to another 75W but with safety margins etc. the real limit remains 600W).

Anyway, a good old 1000W PSU (every self-respecting gamer has already had one of those for at least a decade, right? ) will do the job just fine. No need to regurgitate the sensationalist rumor mill (iT WiLl dRaW 800w oR mEbbE eVeN KILOWATTZ aNd eAt cHiLdReN!!!11) now that we have actual facts and numbers.

Well that's good to hear. I honestly don't keep up with hardware news much these days and only listen in when official announcements drop such as this one. I think some "headlines" of prior information related to these cards indicated you needed some beefy PSU and that's where I was going with it. Though if it's actually within range of even the 4series, that's not as bad as I thought. I'm already on a 1000watt PSU, so I guess it would be fine. Granted, I'm not sure I will upgrade to one of these, but jumping from 3 to 5 is tempting.

That said, I mostly game at 2560 x 1440 and my 3090 has mostly blitzed through everything thrown at it. If something came out that was THAT demanding... say Witcher 4, lol, it might convince me to go all in.

VaranDragon wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 03:29:
@RogueSix:

Why would you upgrade to a 5090 from a 4090? This is a serious question, I'm not trying to be funny or snarky or something, the 4090 is a seriously great graphics card, I mean the upgrade from a 3090 to a 4090 is a whopping 50-80% in most scenarios, especially if you game at high resolutions so that upgrade did kind of make sense but how do you justify going from a 4090 to 5090?
From all that we have seen the 5090 will barely manage to give a 30% rasterization uplift in most situations, yeah it will do some fancy new tricks with its AI upscaling software, and if you're coming from a 3XXX card and have extra money to spend then it makes sense, but if I had a 4090 I wouldn't be able to justify to myself the huge expense.

Raster is so 2019 at this point . The RTX 5090 is advertised to be up to twice as fast with DLSS 4 (MFG) compared to the RTX 4090. It's been proven time and again that DLSS (Quality) is better than native in many games. DLSS is getting constant improvements and MFG will be getting better with new DLSS revisions as well (in addition to Reflex 2 updates).

For example, I haven't bought or played Cyberpunk 2077 yet but when I get around to finally buying and playing it then I want the best possible quality and performance. Same with many other games that are either part of my backlog and that will benefit from the RTX 5090's additional "pump" as well as games that I am yet to buy (like Indiana Jones).
It is also nice, as has been my experience with the RTX 4090, to be able to play "older" games from the mid to late 2010s with a relatively low load on the card, i.e. in total silence without the fans revving up etc.

Last and most definitely not least (the contrary rather), I'm a Microsoft Flight Simulator simmer. I'm still playing the 40th Anniversary Edition because MSFS 2024 is still nowhere near out of beta but you simply can not have enough power for MSFS. That includes the VRAM. With the right add-ons and some nice looking textures (e.g. FBW A320neo or FBW A380), it is pretty easy to fill up the full 24GB of VRAM of the RTX 4090.

And finally it's simply a matter of: Because I can and because I want to . I mean, why not? YOLO! Aside from working for my moolah, I'm in the lucky position to have the money sort of "lying around" (the stock market including nVidia stock has been nice to me) and if I get, what, €1200 (maybe even €1400?) for my used MSI RTX 4090 Suprim X which is still under MSI warranty until October 2025, and if I then buy a €2500 MSI RTX 5090 Suprim Liquid, then we're talking an investment of €1100 to €1300 or so.

Everyone needs to decide this for themselves, of course, but ~€1200/€1300 to have maximum peace of mind for the next 24+ months is worth it to me. I'm an old fart as well (born 1972) so might as well properly enjoy those last few years of gaming I have on this planet .
I don't have any other expensive hobbies. I live a fairly humble life otherwise, even though I could afford a more "glamorous" lifestyle with a fancier car or stuff like that (I drive a twelve year old Volkswagen Golf) but I don't even want to. The Volkswagen gets the job done and I don't need/want a five star hotel, even if I could easily afford it, when a three star hotel is just as comfy for my needs.

There are only two areas in life where I forgo my relative modesty: My PC and my health. I just enjoy having top of the line hardware (or close to it) and I will always choose the best possible treatment/medication/whatever when it comes to health-related spendings. I'm luckily a pretty healthy critter and health insurance covers many things here in EU so it's fortunately rather rare that I need to open the coffers for health-related stuff.

Overon wrote on Jan 8, 2025, 05:52:
Nvidia is following the old "as much as the market can bare" pricing strategy. Which is now even more effective given that AMD has ceded the high end completely to Nvidia and they have no competition. Frankly they can jack up the price more, I think the market can bare it. But I do find it amusing that the 5070 is $549 in 2025 and only has 12 GB of video RAM.

AMD is simply not giving them any kind of proper competition, especially in the high end, and the high end stuff ends up "selling" the mid-range to low end stuff, as people will usually go for brand name recognition over real world numbers.

Nvidia is following the old "as much as the market can bare" pricing strategy. Which is now even more effective given that AMD has ceded the high end completely to Nvidia and they have no competition. Frankly they can jack up the price more, I think the market can bare it. But I do find it amusing that the 5070 is $549 in 2025 and only has 12 GB of video RAM.

@RogueSix:

Why would you upgrade to a 5090 from a 4090? This is a serious question, I'm not trying to be funny or snarky or something, the 4090 is a seriously great graphics card, I mean the upgrade from a 3090 to a 4090 is a whopping 50-80% in most scenarios, especially if you game at high resolutions so that upgrade did kind of make sense but how do you justify going from a 4090 to 5090?
From all that we have seen the 5090 will barely manage to give a 30% rasterization uplift in most situations, yeah it will do some fancy new tricks with its AI upscaling software, and if you're coming from a 3XXX card and have extra money to spend then it makes sense, but if I had a 4090 I wouldn't be able to justify to myself the huge expense.

Well I'm excited. Think about it with 75% of the frames made up by the graphics card AI, in a couple of generations game developers will be able to save money by firing artists and modellers and let the card make up 100% of frames!

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Jan 7, 2025, 22:58. Reason: Cleaning up

MeanJim wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 19:07:
Well shit. I bought a 4080 Super last month, for the PC I'm literally assembling right now, because the last thing I saw was they were going to make an announcement in February about the 5000s.

Bro?

I would say it's been an open "secret" (i.e. none) that the RTX 5000 series would be unveiled at CES for at least six months now. You gotta update your sources. Whoever suggested last month that there would be an announcement in February is plain clueless because last month nVidia themselves announced the CES keynote. It was obvious that Huang would announce new products when holding a keynote at the Consumer Electronics Show.

Maybe I made the right call though given the shit I had to go through 4 years ago to get a 3070. Weren't there stock shortages when the 4000s released? I thought I remembered a friend of mine trying to get a 4080 but they were getting sniped whenever anyone got stock. He was desperate and ended up getting a 4090 because it was the only thing ever in stock.

RTX 3000 launched rather normally with the usual moderate early adopter inflation in September 2020 but after only a few weeks the first CoVid fall/winter lockdowns took its toll and the prices exploded. Historically, RTX 3000 was pretty much the only series in hindsight where it would have made sense to buy on release.
I bought my RTX 3090 in December 2020 for €1869 when prices were already rising but I luckily avoided the €3000+ insanity that ensued.
RTX 3000 series was later on also massively affected by the crypto madness so it was all but impossible to buy one for a decent price until the summer of 2022 or so.

When the RTX 4000 series launched, there was massive scalping because everyone (retailers/scalpers) was hoping for a repeat of the RTX 3000 madness. The RTX 4000 series launched in October 2022 and prices remained inflated/volatile until about January/February 2023. Then they came down massively from €2500+ to under €2000 for the RTX 4090.
With the RTX 4000 series, it made sense to wait three-ish months for the scalping to die down. Early adopters paid a huge premium. I was a "victim" as well as I paid €2449 in October 2022 for my RTX 4090 but hindsight is always 20/20. I was afraid of a RTX 3000 repeat where the prices would continue to go up and remain at €3000+ for a year or so. That never happened.

Regarding the RTX 5000 series, there are no factors that should drive prices more than the usual early adopter "idiot tax" this time around. The scalpers got themselves a bloody nose with the RTX 4000 when the prices crashed due to decent availability. There will be the usual moderate early adopter scalping in the first few weeks but I'm sure that any inflated prices will come down by March/April at the latest.

It's kind of funny how a lot of people seem to think that a one time event like the RTX 3000 launch was somehow a normal launch and that it makes sense to buy on release day or, if possible, maybe even preorder a card. That hasn't really ever been the case. Historically, it has always made sense to wait a few weeks (six to eight minimum) for availability, stock and pricing to settle down, then buy. Being an early adopter has only paid off (literally) with the RTX 3000 series as a one time event due to the pandemic and crypto madness. RTX 5000 should be back to "normal" with inflated release pricing that will come down rather quickly as we move into spring and summer.

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Jan 7, 2025, 22:58. Reason: Personal attacks (rule 1)

Simon Says wrote on Jan 7, 2025, 17:15:
The fact that you need to buy a 1000$ 5080 to have the same amount of VRAM as a 4 years old console is patently absurd.

Those consoles have shared RAM, they do not have 16GB dedicated to graphics. Hell, a few GB are held in reserve strictly for their OS, completely unavailable for games to use at all (though the PS5 Pro apparently added 2GB of slower RAM to help free up some of that load).