Simon Says wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 19:19:

Xeth Nyrrow wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 13:39:
Humans are violent by nature

No we're not, violent behavior is an anomaly in humans and most observed among those who don't have good enough mental health and/or in situations of crisis.

In fact, anthropologists arrived to the consensus that cooperation and kindness are the rule rather than the exception in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins ( bonobos ) a long time ago.

But I guess that old myth ( and the "humans are competitive by nature" myth ) is/are gonna die hard so *shrugs*.

Violence isn't the best word for it, but humans ARE competitive by nature, the proof is evident in the games and sports we enjoy across all borders and even genders. Calling it a myth is delusional, it's literally one of the ways we have thrived as a species.

Simon Says wrote on Jan 5, 2025, 16:30:

El Pit wrote on Jan 5, 2025, 14:45:
Chimpanzees are our closest relatives.

Don't be so condescending.

I guess you could choose to take it in a condescending manner when you spout inane babble like this.

You don't even know chimpanzees aren't our closest relatives ( Here's one of the countless studies proving it published in the science journal nature in 2012, but undoubtedly the most cited one: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128 ), .

You don't even know that our ancestors ( original comment quote: "in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins" ) Homo Neanderthalensis, Erectus, all the way back to Australopithecus are closer, and so are bonobos.

As for the title of "know it all", I'll take that as a compliment considering I've been reading science journals since childhood.

As for you, are you related to a certain Mr. Snow per chance?... kidding.

I'm done here, go back to your studies, you have 12 years of science journals to read to catch up ( if note more in other fields ).

Jane Goodall not good enough for you, the BBC not good enough for you, I guess studies on intelligent raid strategies of baboons in South Africa won't do it for you either, then desperately moving away from our closest living relatives, the chimpanzees, to extinct branches of hominides... Oh, Simon. *Sigh* Farewell. And please don't go primal like a primate too often again.

El Pit wrote on Jan 5, 2025, 14:45:
Chimpanzees are our closest relatives.

Don't be so condescending.

I guess you could choose to take it in a condescending manner when you spout inane babble like this.

You don't even know chimpanzees aren't our closest relatives ( Here's one of the countless studies proving it published in the science journal nature in 2012, but undoubtedly the most cited one: https://www.nature.com/articles/nature11128 ), .

You don't even know that our ancestors ( original comment quote: "in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins" ) Homo Neanderthalensis, Erectus, all the way back to Australopithecus are closer, and so are bonobos.

As for the title of "know it all", I'll take that as a compliment considering I've been reading science journals since childhood.

As for you, are you related to a certain Mr. Snow per chance?... kidding.

I'm done here, go back to your studies, you have 12 years of science journals to read to catch up ( if note more in other fields ).

Simon Says wrote on Jan 5, 2025, 14:35:

Simon Says wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 19:19:

Xeth Nyrrow wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 13:39:
Humans are violent by nature

No we're not, violent behavior is an anomaly in humans and most observed among those who don't have good enough mental health and/or in situations of crisis.

In fact, anthropologists arrived to the consensus that cooperation and kindness are the rule rather than the exception in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins ( bonobos ) a long time ago.

But I guess that old myth ( and the "humans are competitive by nature" myth ) is/are gonna die hard so *shrugs*.

So what you're saying is I should just "trust you mate" instead of the massive amount of consilience of consensus from geneticists, biologists, anthropologists, psychologists, sociologists and their animal equivalents ( comparative psychology, sociobiology, ethology, etc. ) who studied all hominini?

All because what? You watched a few documentaries on chimpanzees ( a species of hominini that is much further away on the evolutionary tree than all homo species and the closest non homo bonobos ) and one happened to be when a tribe was in a situation of crisis ( dearth of resources )?

Lol, cool story bro.

Simon, let me google that for you. Here is an article on topic (aggressive primates) on the website of the not really unknown anthropologist Jane Goodall (!!!): Read for yourself
Here a snippet from a BBC documentary depicting the warfare: Look for yourself

Chimpanzees are our closest relatives.

Don't be so condescending. You obviously are not the "Know It All" guy. Don't be as aggressive as our relatives obviously are. Just like us fur-reduced monkeys.

Simon Says wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 19:19:

Xeth Nyrrow wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 13:39:
Humans are violent by nature

No we're not, violent behavior is an anomaly in humans and most observed among those who don't have good enough mental health and/or in situations of crisis.

In fact, anthropologists arrived to the consensus that cooperation and kindness are the rule rather than the exception in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins ( bonobos ) a long time ago.

But I guess that old myth ( and the "humans are competitive by nature" myth ) is/are gonna die hard so *shrugs*.

So what you're saying is I should just "trust you mate" instead of the massive amount of consilience of consensus from geneticists, biologists, anthropologists, psychologists, sociologists and their animal equivalents ( comparative psychology, sociobiology, ethology, etc. ) who studied all hominini?

All because what? You watched a few documentaries on chimpanzees ( a species of hominini that is much further away on the evolutionary tree than all homo species and the closest non homo bonobos ) and one happened to be when a tribe was in a situation of crisis ( dearth of resources )?

Lol, cool story bro.

Simon Says wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 19:19:

Xeth Nyrrow wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 13:39:
Humans are violent by nature

No we're not, violent behavior is an anomaly in humans and most observed among those who don't have good enough mental health and/or in situations of crisis.

In fact, anthropologists arrived to the consensus that cooperation and kindness are the rule rather than the exception in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins ( bonobos ) a long time ago.

But I guess that old myth ( and the "humans are competitive by nature" myth ) is/are gonna die hard so *shrugs*.

And chimpanzees make intelligent warfare against their neighbors, killing everyone (including babies), sometimes turning into cannibals, to take over the territory and provisions.
So, you were saying...?

jacobvandy wrote on Jan 5, 2025, 00:14:
Shit, I'm still waiting for them to make violence work like it should in most AAA RPGs... No more hundreds or thousands of 'essential' NPCs that aren't allowed to die because the devs don't want to have to account for those extra variables in their quest/world design. I can't be the only one that was really slapped in the face by this about a year ago while playing Starfield immediately after Baldur's Gate 3, two opposite extremes on that spectrum of reactivity.

Well in OG Fallout, you can absolutely kill most if not all of the NPCs , not only that but prior to later, after release patch you could off children npcs as well. Different times but the freedom of your actions were there.

Simon Says wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 19:19:

Xeth Nyrrow wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 13:39:
Humans are violent by nature

No we're not, violent behavior is an anomaly in humans and most observed among those who don't have good enough mental health and/or in situations of crisis.

In fact, anthropologists arrived to the consensus that cooperation and kindness are the rule rather than the exception in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins ( bonobos ) a long time ago.

But I guess that old myth ( and the "humans are competitive by nature" myth ) is/are gonna die hard so *shrugs*.

There's a difference between violent by nature and acting upon it. Also, being both violent by nature and cooperative by nature can be true at the same time. Maybe the term you used, "competitive" is better and we are definitely that via survival of the fittest which IS nature's law.

Shit, I'm still waiting for them to make violence work like it should in most AAA RPGs... No more hundreds or thousands of 'essential' NPCs that aren't allowed to die because the devs don't want to have to account for those extra variables in their quest/world design. I can't be the only one that was really slapped in the face by this about a year ago while playing Starfield immediately after Baldur's Gate 3, two opposite extremes on that spectrum of reactivity.

Xeth Nyrrow wrote on Jan 4, 2025, 13:39:
Humans are violent by nature

No we're not, violent behavior is an anomaly in humans and most observed among those who don't have good enough mental health and/or in situations of crisis.

In fact, anthropologists arrived to the consensus that cooperation and kindness are the rule rather than the exception in homo sapiens and our closest ancestors and cousins ( bonobos ) a long time ago.

But I guess that old myth ( and the "humans are competitive by nature" myth ) is/are gonna die hard so *shrugs*.

Hummm all I read is that Tim Cain intends to continue profiteering on school shootings, poisoning our minds with senseless violence, and indoctrinating us with the so called "music" of Satan's heavy metal. Unless we outlaw violent video games. Jan 1 2025 will become an everyday event.

... TAP, TAP, is this even on?

This comment was edited on Jan 4, 2025, 15:39.

...

With all due respect to Tim, I think this ignores the elephant in the room that is the R in RPG: Playing something you can't. It's not really fun to role play a pedestrian or even a hero who uses primarily mundane resolution methods. Humans are violent by nature and our modern society has side lined the majority of this part of our nature so video games make a great outlet.

The gaming market has grown huge in the area where non classical RPGs do allow non violent resolutions, with many selling very well also. Technically those are RPGs as well. Playing Sim Power Washer because you don't have one? Well now you are role playing someone doing it for a living. Very boring to me personally but some people just love it. Just about every game can be classified as an RPG when it comes down to it. I'm not sure why he wants to try and carve this narrative about market for traditional RPGs when the market has already created many alternatives.