jdreyer wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 01:38:
But it has certainly given the entire industry a moment of reflection.

Ah yes, reflecting.

But of course no one was reflecting more than Andrew Witty, the CEO of UnitedHealth Group, the parent company of UnitedHealthcare when he poked his head out of a mountain of gold so big it would make Smaug blush.

"We know the health system does not work as well as it should, and we understand people's frustrations with it," he wrote in an op-ed published in The New York Times.
"We understand and share the desire to build a health care system that works better for everyone," he added.

Witty added that Thompson was among those who "tried their best for those they serve." He wrote, "When a colleague proposed a new idea to Brian, he would always ask, 'Would you want this for your own family?' If not, end of discussion."

The UnitedHealth Group CEO ended the op-ed asserting that Thompson was dedicated to building a more affordable, transparent and compassionate health care — adding that it was those characteristics that he and others in UnitedHealth Group will emulate.
Source npr
Archived Op-Ed

Whoa, was Thompson the one man who was going to fix it? Did witty have him whacked*. Does Witty moonlight for The Onion?
Andrew Witty, UnitedHealth Group CEO
2022 pay: $20,865,106
2021 pay: $18,433,143
Percentage increase: 13.19

United Healthcare CEO Brian Thompson received a total compensation package of $10.2 million in 2023

Was the wrong man murdered?
So many questions, so little time.


The op-ed received over 2,400 comments before the comments section was closed. Many of the responses were of readers unconvinced by Witty's statements.
*PS For the record, I don't think Thompson was murdered by the industry.

This comment was edited on Dec 15, 2024, 07:42.

Jivaro wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 14:23:
yep, perfectly.

That's really, really rough Jivaro.

A shame so much greed and ignorance maintains a horrible "healthcare" system uniquely bad and worse than most of the 3rd world ones, forget the 1st world.

I will simply say this:

If the legal system is your framework for what is ethical and just, your ethics are fundamentally flawed and require a deep reconsideration.

It may be illegal to kill a monster, by the laws created to defend and protect the very same monsters, but it is not unethical.

If the fair mean was equitably applied to all regardless of wealth and/or power, only then would Thompson's death be unethical.

But it isn't. Otherwise Thompson would have been up on charges for, at the very least, accessory to murder, intentional infliction of distress with bodily injury, malicious negligence, and failure to render aid.

"B...b...but it was murder" is childish pearl clutching and holds no water in the face of all the provable harm that UHC committed while Thompson was at its helm. He had every opportunity to stop that harm and he chose, daily, to promote and continue it to enrich himself and others.

Luigi Mangione will go down as a class folk hero. He already is one and "tut tut"ing while looking down your nose makes you the asshole, not the people supporting him.

yep, perfectly.

Jivaro wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 12:09:
[snipped for brevity]

What you wrote converted into a haiku.

Decades lost in pain,
Rage at systems built to harm,
Sympathy runs dry.

Accurate?

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 06:55:

jdreyer wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 01:38:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 00:19:
You know what, nevermind.

he's not wrong.

You're goddamn right, I'm not wrong.

IBut I am capable of separating the murder of an innocent man from the state of healthcare.
When you boil it all down, if you have to have something to blame, look no further than end-stage capitalism.

Your comment suggests there's no connection. But there is no separation. The CEO is responsible for implementing processes that he knew would lead to the death of thousands. He was never going to pay for those crimes. That's why he was targeted. I look at Luigi much the same as Edward Snowden: he absolutely broke the law, but did so to expose structural crimes and move the nation forward. And those conversations are happening as a result.

I've worked for a good HIC. We'd go out of our way to work with patients. Our goal was the health of our customers, not profit. This corporate culture was reinforced at every level, all throughout the company, all throughout the year.

I've also been on UHC. I've had claims for routine care that were covered by my plan get rejected by UHC for no reason. I could have gotten my money back if I'd spent $1000s on lawyers to force them. Aside from that there was little recourse. My appeal, my doctor's efforts, and even my company's fixer's efforts came to naught. This is an intentional tactic by that company to increase profits. They have the lowest premiums, but the highest profits. Why is that? Because they also have the highest claim rejection rate. There's no downside to this behavior. There are no fines, nobody goes to jail. There's no enforcement mechanism.

Preauthorization is often required even for explicitly covered care. If the HIC does not preauthorize, the doctor will not provide the care. For people that require life-saving care, and cannot afford to pay out of pocket, that's a death sentence. Delaying that authorization, denying the authorization and forcing the patient to appeal, defending those preauthorization denials, those are the tactics. And they work. They also kill.

First, this post assumes two things: It's murder and it shouldn't be applauded or encouraged. That said, discussing the topics is normal and discussing the whys and why nots is not necessarily supporting or encouraging anything. This is a long rambling post, but I swear there is at least one good point in here...

With that in mind, some people need to understand that some of us, myself included, have endured DECADES of pain due to literally illegal insurance bullshit. A family member of mine died from preventable causes due to insurance approval delays during the pandemic. My grandmother and my mother both had insurance nightmares occur during their final hours in a hospital. Because you know, when your mom or your grandma is literally dying in front of you....grasping your hand....that is exaclty what you want to be dealing with. To say that I have rage at this industry would be the understatement of any century ever. Thirteen years in hospitals and courts so I could convince the NURSES evaluating my case at the insurance company that the DOCTORS evaluating my case in real life were correct about what I needed. That's right, nurses.....hired by the insurance company to evaluate physician requests, blocking approvals requested by actual doctors. Totally legal, if you didn't know. Even in California.

We only get one shot at this life, and living it in decades of pain or losing a faminly member's life to an insurance company is not something you are going to be able to just morally guilt people into putting aside because "murder is bad". And that is what it sounds like to people who have experienced this when people slide right on by our pain and struggles and focus on some rich dude being shot because...well...he got held accountable for his own decisions? It is tragic he was killed, but you know what else is tragic? This fucking health insurance industry that he chose to be not just employed by....he ran one of the biggest players and made decisions like AI pass/fail reviews without human review. He is not an innocent and portraying him that way will instantly make everyone stop listening. It's not real and can't be taken seriously. He actively participated in a sytem that has been fucking people for generations and he knew it. Portraying him as anything else is not dealing in the reality of his actions professionally.

People are pissed, and anyone coming on strong with their ethics might be well meaning (or even correct!), but they are totally ignoring the real problem while preaching to a crowd that might very well feel sorry for the man and his family, but like a football coach is responsible for his team's record, so is the CEO responsible for his company and its actions. Who else would the desperate hold accountable? It's just gonna fall on deaf ears because you know what....I would like those 13 years back but I aint gonna get them. I am gonna be working until I am in my seventies because the insurance company kept me locked up in limbo for those 13 years. Too physically damaged to work in my field, tied up in courts, 5 surgeries state side......all my sympathy for this dude was spent a long time before he was ever killed. I would like to not suffer from multiple drug induced physical side effects from long term pain killer use due to the delays in my surgery. That won't ever fucking happen either.

So yeah, the "murder is bad" people need to stop IMO. (not that anyone will, I know) We know. But so is all this other shit and nobody seems to be doing anything about that. We got this kid locked up in record time for killing one person...insurance companies hurt or kill thousands yearly. Americans just take it up the ass.

Like I said, I get it...the ethics/morals about the actual killing itself are not really debateable IMO....but I think some folks that believe they are saying the "morally" right things might be losing the overall perspective here. It is VERY accurate that CEOs and executives across the country are literally hurting/killing the American public...their own civilian countrymates. Don't be so quick to discount the feelings of others because the conversation starts on the actions of someone that does something horrible. There is still a larger perspective here and if everybody get locked up on the right and wrong of the shooter himself instead of why he did it and why so many sympathize with him despite the terribleness of his deed......there will just be more. People got to be allowed to talk about that larger perspective without the morality police commenting every time to remind them of the same shit they have been hearing since kinderarten. We need more discussion (maybe not here, but in the real world) about the insurance industry and less about the ethics of losing your shit when you believe you have been pushed to far. The legal system will handle that part. We fucking know murder is bad, the guy has a screw loose. But he got here somehow, perhaps that screw got knocked loose, and given the populations strong opinions, it needs to be discussed without constantly devolving into "but murder is bad..."

Speaking of insurance companies, it is particularly revealing that companies are choosing to whine to the media about the cost of security for their board members and upper executives now. Every article that interviews the companies, that's the top concern. Interesting attitude and a very interesting choice of topics to plead before the public. What's that? The cost of the consequences of your actions is a bit hard to swallow? Hmm...maybe don't do the bad shit so you don't have to spend money protecting yourself from future bad shit.

The murder of this CEO by a pissed off dude is not what has the industry shaken. It's the fact that overall the American public seems to sympathize with the shooter. I expect health insurance companies to bombard us in 2025 with "feel good" PR at the start of the year, rounded out with all those health care programs resources they say you have access to but then are gone when you go to use them. The added security for exectuives and that PR will make the 2026 rates increase higher then would be normal because they will need to offset the costs and by 2027 they won't even be sending the warm and fuzzy PR out anymore....just the higher bills. The only way any actual change happens is if at somepoint in the next two years the customers or legal system do something about it....and we all know that isn't going to happen.

So let me ask this question. You only get the one life. You are gonna die or live in pain for the rest of your life without treatment, the insurance company won't approve the treatment. If you had the means, do you spend your one life taking it up the ass because "murder is bad" or do you come for the people that have decided that you are not worth enough to save. That you are too expensive for their stock holders. That your life was denied because a number pusher rounded up somewhere? That your care was denied because a retired nurse was hired to auto-deny requests that have certain words in them or are structured a certain way....not based on what they actually medically contain. I ask because I am not ashamed to admit that at my lowest....when the back pain and the insurance company were the worst and the pain killers were at their highest....I was pretty angry. All the time and at everyone and everything. And I was in my thirties when that started, this is a kid basically. A kid that came from a family with means, which I did not. His expectations of the world and how it works were probably much higher then mine coming out of school.

The only surprising thing to me about any of this is how long it took before someone finally said fuck this. In a country where everyone can have a one shot and your dead weapon and mental health care is trash you would have thought this would have happened before and much more often.

edit: lots of typos, screw it

This comment was edited on Dec 12, 2024, 15:48.

Crazy how they're still nowhere close to competing with Steam even after giving away so much free stuff and paying for so many exclusives.

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 11, 2024, 23:06:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 11, 2024, 22:51:
And any game where Luigi escapes jail?

Dude, he's a murderer, not a hero.
Hopefully he'll be in jail for the rest of his life.
But as he's rich, and he's a first-time offender, who knows? This is America. He might get out next week.

That "innocent" and others of his ilk, including big pharma and the Sacklers, kill/killed children, moms, dads, and grands by the thousands monthly, ruining families and futures without a qualm or care.

So, absolutely dude, Luigi is a hero to me, no need to keep bending over for the overlords.

jdreyer wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 01:38:

Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 00:19:
You know what, nevermind.

he's not wrong.

You're goddamn right, I'm not wrong.

IBut I am capable of separating the murder of an innocent man from the state of healthcare.
When you boil it all down, if you have to have something to blame, look no further than end-stage capitalism.

Why settle for one when you can create an extra account and snag two! After all, it's Epic's money! 📉

Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 12, 2024, 00:19:
You know what, nevermind.

Yeah, I'm kind of surprised at his take given his posting history, but of course technically he's not wrong.

But it has certainly given the entire industry a moment of reflection. The patient horror stories have been happening for decades, and the HICs have only gotten worse. UHC itself has drastically increased both denials and profits over the past several years. Given that those peaceful protests of previous years had no effect, an eruption of violence was only a matter of time sadly.

Anyway, I came here to sing a song:

On the sixteenth day of Christmas,🎶 Epic gave to me...

You know what, nevermind.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 11, 2024, 22:51:
And any game where Luigi escapes jail?

Dude, he's a murderer, not a hero.
Hopefully he'll be in jail for the rest of his life.
But as he's rich, and he's a first-time offender, who knows? This is America. He might get out next week.

Proof in the pudding.
Ready to gush, come on Timmy, give us sweet choices.

And any game where Luigi escapes jail ?

If Dep Leppard were just starting out today, their song Foolin' would be Snaggin'....Snuh-snuh-snaggin', ahh, snuh-snuh-snaggin....'

That's a whole lotta snaggin¹⁶ goin on.
I bet steam gives away ten times as many.