Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 21:45:

Scallywag Sally wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 17:36:
Yay! The echo chamber is back! Let’s all gather ‘round and trash those "fucking disgusting cis-gendered MAGA incels" who got Trump elected!

Seriously though, social media is like toothpaste that’s already out of the tube -- it’s not going back in. The internet is the world’s public square now. Period. Moderators will always have political biases. Sure, maybe they’d be less biased if they were better vetted, but bias will still exist. Policing the public square only creates echo chambers.

It’s better for us, as humans, to adapt to the current reality and navigate disinformation and misinformation ourselves -- through open discourse and trial-and-error. We don’t need ideologues dictating what and how to think, propped up by their pet moderators. Let everyone speak freely (except calls for violence), and let the consequences of bad ideas play out naturally. Pain is a great teacher. The toothpaste is out, the ship has sailed.

But hey, yayyyy! Let’s all hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and screw MAGA! 😃

You're just rambling without making an attempt at a point. Isn't your presence here proof this isn't an echo chamber?

And humans have proven to be terrible at evaluating disinformation and misinformation. And bad ideas are growing, not spreading. Have you logged in to Facebook? It's all retirees saying "God bless" to ai images and then crying about trans people or chemtrails.

I don’t agree with much of what you say, but your description of Facebook is spot-on -- critical thinking really does seem to go there to die! 😂 Bravo.

That said, Facebook is moderated, isn’t it? So its problems reflect more on the platform being a retiree playground than on a lack of moderation. The issue isn’t whether platforms moderate; it’s how they moderate and the trust (or lack of it) that follows.

Take the Hunter Biden laptop story. At this point, just hearing the phrase makes my eyes roll, but you can’t deny it’s a poster child for biased moderation. Suppressing that story was a death blow to trust in platforms’ ability to moderate fairly. Can we ever get back to a place where both sides’ claims are fact-checked with the same rigor? Or are we better off following X’s model of letting most things fly? Would a platform like Bluesky allow Hagseth’s rape allegations to roam freely while clamping down on similar claims about a Democrat? (For the record, just mentioning Hagseth gives me the dry heaves, he's so fucking slimey -- I’m unpartisan on this.)

So yeah, I stand by what I said: The toothpaste is out, the ship has sailed. We’re living in the wild west of online discourse, and maybe it’s time we stop trying to play sheriff. I'm very open for convincing arguments against this view.

Scallywag Sally wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 17:36:
Yay! The echo chamber is back! Let’s all gather ‘round and trash those "fucking disgusting cis-gendered MAGA incels" who got Trump elected!

Seriously though, social media is like toothpaste that’s already out of the tube -- it’s not going back in. The internet is the world’s public square now. Period. Moderators will always have political biases. Sure, maybe they’d be less biased if they were better vetted, but bias will still exist. Policing the public square only creates echo chambers.

It’s better for us, as humans, to adapt to the current reality and navigate disinformation and misinformation ourselves -- through open discourse and trial-and-error. We don’t need ideologues dictating what and how to think, propped up by their pet moderators. Let everyone speak freely (except calls for violence), and let the consequences of bad ideas play out naturally. Pain is a great teacher. The toothpaste is out, the ship has sailed.

But hey, yayyyy! Let’s all hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and screw MAGA! 😃

You're just rambling without making an attempt at a point. Isn't your presence here proof this isn't an echo chamber?

And humans have proven to be terrible at evaluating disinformation and misinformation. And bad ideas are growing, not spreading. Have you logged in to Facebook? It's all retirees saying "God bless" to ai images and then crying about trans people or chemtrails.

Beamer wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 15:42:
Libertarianism often overlooks reality, and this is one of those cases.

Libertarianism is what happens when a person carries a twelve year old's understanding of civics and governance in to adulthood. It's completely devoid of realism, not just often overlooks it. Moreover, it's completely devoid of empathy and compassion.

I've neither the patience nor tolerance for it.

Yay! The echo chamber is back! Let’s all gather ‘round and trash those "fucking disgusting cis-gendered MAGA incels" who got Trump elected!

Seriously though, social media is like toothpaste that’s already out of the tube -- it’s not going back in. The internet is the world’s public square now. Period. Moderators will always have political biases. Sure, maybe they’d be less biased if they were better vetted, but bias will still exist. Policing the public square only creates echo chambers.

It’s better for us, as humans, to adapt to the current reality and navigate disinformation and misinformation ourselves -- through open discourse and trial-and-error. We don’t need ideologues dictating what and how to think, propped up by their pet moderators. Let everyone speak freely (except calls for violence), and let the consequences of bad ideas play out naturally. Pain is a great teacher. The toothpaste is out, the ship has sailed.

But hey, yayyyy! Let’s all hold hands, sing Kumbaya, and screw MAGA! 😃

But it's two-fold:

1) Only a dink would claim to be a "free speech absolutionist." It's a moronic claim, and it's been handled poorly.

2) Only a dink would want a place with unlimited free speech. Sorry, lots of people use speech to make things less fun. Again, if Blue allowed every spammer to post here, discussion would be impossible. Similarly, if he invited every person that wished suicide upon others here back to post, this place would just be full of people telling everyone to do just that. It wouldn't be a place to have healthy discussions about video games, it'd be a place to tell people to go fuck themselves.

Libertarianism often overlooks reality, and this is one of those cases.

Name calling and rando, bulk data drop is kinda a "head in the sand" response tho.

Basically Musk has claimed that legality should be the basis of allowing or banning content. But you're all right. He's not perfect and we all knew as soon as he made absolutionist type statements, people were going to come out of the woodwork to press him on it. I wanted to check on some of RedEye's drop. Here's what I found:

Claim 1
Journalists Steven Zetti of the Texas Observer and Ken Klippenstein of the Intercept had their twitter accounts nuked

Response 1
Accounts were restored and Musk responded back.

References
• Musk's Tweet on Restoring Accounts

Claim 2
Musk suspended several accounts for impersonating him, including those run by comedian Kathy Griffins and former NFL player Chris Kluwe.

Response 2
Musk made a policy about impersonation. His platform, his rules I guess. Simple fix was to just put (parody) in the name. Is that really censoring? Knocks against absolutist for sure.

References
• AP News: Musk Bans Impersonators
• Hollywood Reporter: Twitter Impersonators

Claim 3
He also restricted a few accounts for spreading hate speech and politically polarizing content, including Kanye West.

Response 3
It was due to Kanye posting a swatstika on a star of david… Like, not great and I feel like it's in the margin of error for incitement. Also… Kanye's account was suspended multiple times, not once & forever.

References
• Reason: Musk Enforces Twitter Ban
• TechCrunch: Musk Suspends Kanye West

Claim 4
He deactivated @elonjet, an account was run by Jack Sweeney, a 20-year-old Florida college student. Twitter also banned Sweeney’s personal account and his other two accounts tracking the private jets of Donald Trump and Mark Zuckerberg.

Response 4
So @elonjet was blocked after they followed Musk's son because they thought Musk was in the vehicle. Maybe kneejerk? I mean, seems understandable. And yet again, @elonjet is back on twitter (albeit with a 24 hour delay).

References
• Engadget: Twitter Bans Elonjet
• Mashable: Elonjet on Twitter

Claim 5
He suspended the accounts of several journalists who recently wrote about him and his companies, suggesting they also violated Twitter’s doxxing rules. Those affected include reporters for the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, Voice of America and other news organizations.

Response 5
So this was Ryan Mac, Donie O'Sullivan, Micah Lee, Matt Binder, Aaron Rupar, Keith Olbermann and Toby Webster. This was about Claim 4, the @elonjet thing. They were all re-instated after 7 days.

References
• The Hill: Musk Defends Banning Journalists
• Rolling Stone: Musk Bans Journalists

Claim 6
Twitter announced a new policy banning accounts created with the sole purpose of promoting other social media accounts. That new rule resulted in the suspension of Mastodon, a platform billed as a Twitter alternative.

Response 6
True. Again though, it was reversed and Mastadon reinstated. Even if this had stuck, it's not too different than something like CNN not having direct competitors advertise on their platform. No? Advertisement isn't pinnacle of free speech in my book.

References
• CNBC: Twitter Bans Promotion of Other Platforms
• Mastodon Blog: Twitter Suspends Mastodon

Claim 7
The words “cis” and “cisgender” are now censored on Twitter.

Response 7
True. They don't allow slurs of that type any more than they do for racial or ethnic groups. Probably an issue with people who like to go around slinging the N-word and such, but I'd think for most this is fine. I'm not too familiar with the term as I've never heard anyone use it personally. You aren't banned for using them, you just have something along the lines of the "sensitive content" label on your post. Low-grade pay-wall censoring at best.

References
• Fast Company: Musk X Cisgender Article
• Advocate: Cisgender Restriction on X

Claim 8
He banned Journalists for telling the truth
Ryan Mac (@rmac18), reporter for the New York Times
Donie O’Sullivan (@donie), reporter for CNN

Response 8
See Claim 5.

Claim 9
Drew Harwell (@drewharwell), reporter for the Washington Post
Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz), reporter for the Washington Post

Response 9
Taylor Lorenz was temporarily banned from Twitter after she and her colleague, Drew Harwell, publicly asked Twitter CEO Elon Musk for comment on a story. Musk cited a "prior doxxing action" by Lorenz's account as the reason for the suspension. However, Lorenz and others have disputed this, claiming that she was merely seeking comment for a story and had not engaged in doxxing.
Her account was later restored.

Doxxing isn't technically illegal, so it's probably fair to push back on Musk on these. He did restore their accounts though.

References
• Time: Twitter Temporarily Bans Journalist
• Independent: Musk Bans Taylor Lorenz
• Mediaite: Taylor Lorenz's Account Restored
• FindLaw: Is Doxxing Illegal?

Claim 9
Matt Binder (@mattbinder), reporter for Mashable
Micah Lee (@micahflee), reporter for The Intercept
Steve Herman (@W7VOA), chief national correspondent for Voice of America
Aaron Rupar (@atrupar), freelance journalist
Keith Olbermann (@keitholbermann), political commentator
Linette Lopez (@lopezlinette), reporter for Business Insider
Susan Li (@SusanLiTV), reporter for Fox Business
Tony Webster (@webster), freelance journalist

Response 9
See Claim 5

Claim 10
Political accounts
Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club (@EFJBGC), an anti-fascist gun group advocating for LGBT gun ownership
Chad Loder (@chadloder), anti-fascist activist
CrimethInc (@crimethinc), an anarchist collective

Response 10
Elm Fork - banned due to actual incitement to violence. They attacked police officers.
Chad Loder - I mean, he directly requested to be banned. So he got what he asked for.
CremithInc - An asian, gay man discovered tangible evidence of violent incitement material from the org.

References
• Dallas Express: Local Antifa Group Banned
• The Intercept: Musk and Antifa
• CrimethInc: Musk Bans CrimethInc

Claim 11
Impersonators
h3h3Productions (@h3h3productions), a comedy YouTube channel
Jeph Jacques (@jephjacques), cartoonist
Edith Frost (@edithfrost), singer-songwriter
Rich Sommer (@richsommer), actor

@EliLillyandCo, an account impersonating Eli Lilly and Company

Response 11

See Claim 2. They impersonated while some also spouting offensive crap.

References
• Dotes Sports: H3H3 Twitter Ban
• CBC: Musk Twitter Impersonations

Claim 12
The list goes on and on and on

Response 12
Does it though? I think the main distinction here, as OhLordNick called out, is that in nearly every single case above, these bans were temporary, lasting at most a week. Twitter 1.0 had some people banned indefinitely. Donald Trump, for example, was banned permanently until the platform was purchased by Musk.

Claim 13
his little shrinking soap box

Response 13
When Elon purchased Twitter, it had 330 million accounts and 145 million active users. Fast forward to today and per these stats, it has 415 million accounts and 335 million active users. Though the comment above is somewhat vague, I'd not label the world's 15th (6th in US) largest social media platform with many users of differing viewpoints as either "little" or "shrinking". I think Obama is still the 2nd most popular account on Twitter. I'll give you "soap box" as that fundamentally describes social media.

References
• Statista: Twitter Statistics
• Social Blade: Twitter Statistics

Meanwhile over on Bluesky you have Lorenz posting CEOs for the next hit. Sounds like a great place, amarite?

Seems funny that such a huge public nerd and gamer gets such grief here. I guess we all deserve to get called out on our public failings, but Musk really seems like a lightning pole. I suppose if that's ultimately your point, that he's a hypocrite. You got em!

Again, only Elon claims to be a "free speech absolutist," so only he is a hypocrite when banning people.

The rest of humanity understands that some people exist solely to make things worse for everyone, and platforms benefit for not having them. Like how Blue bans every single spammer that comes here. So they have a right to free speech here? No! This place would be horrible if we did not ban them.

Doubling down despite the overwhelming facts in front of you.....the American way.

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 15:28:
You'd have to stick your head in the sand or prefer to stay uninformed if you think space karen does not censor.

Journalists Steven Zetti of the Texas Observer and Ken Klippenstein of the Intercept had their twitter accounts nuked

Musk suspended several accounts for impersonating him, including those run by comedian Kathy Griffins and former NFL player Chris Kluwe. He also restricted a few accounts for spreading hate speech and politically polarizing content, including Kanye West.
He deactivated @elonjet, an account was run by Jack Sweeney, a 20-year-old Florida college student. Twitter also banned Sweeney’s personal account and his other two accounts tracking the private jets of Donald Trump and Mark Zuckerberg.
He suspended the accounts of several journalists who recently wrote about him and his companies, suggesting they also violated Twitter’s doxxing rules. Those affected include reporters for the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, Voice of America and other news organizations.
Twitter announced a new policy banning accounts created with the sole purpose of promoting other social media accounts. That new rule resulted in the suspension of Mastodon, a platform billed as a Twitter alternative.
The words “cis” and “cisgender” are now censored on Twitter.

He banned Journalists for telling the truth
Ryan Mac (@rmac18), reporter for the New York Times
Donie O’Sullivan (@donie), reporter for CNN
Drew Harwell (@drewharwell), reporter for the Washington Post
Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz), reporter for the Washington Post
Matt Binder (@mattbinder), reporter for Mashable
Micah Lee (@micahflee), reporter for The Intercept
Steve Herman (@W7VOA), chief national correspondent for Voice of America
Aaron Rupar (@atrupar), freelance journalist
Keith Olbermann (@keitholbermann), political commentator
Linette Lopez (@lopezlinette), reporter for Business Insider
Susan Li (@SusanLiTV), reporter for Fox Business
Tony Webster (@webster), freelance journalist

Political accounts
Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club (@EFJBGC), an anti-fascist gun group advocating for LGBT gun ownership
Chad Loder (@chadloder), anti-fascist activist
CrimethInc (@crimethinc), an anarchist collective

Impersonators
h3h3Productions (@h3h3productions), a comedy YouTube channel
Jeph Jacques (@jephjacques), cartoonist
Edith Frost (@edithfrost), singer-songwriter
Rich Sommer (@richsommer), actor
@EliLillyandCo, an account impersonating Eli Lilly and Company



The list goes on and on and on


I was compiling while Sepharo beat me to the punch.

I'd have to look further into some of these bans to see the reasoning behind some of them, but nevertheless, Jack Dorsey, Twitter 1.0 CEO, makes Elon look like a Saint. There are millions upon millions of left leaning Twitter 2.0/X users that can speak freely without the threat of censorship today. This was not true for right leaning Twitter 1.0 users, so Elon is a VAST improvement for free speech on the Twitter/X platform. I'm an Independent/Moderate, so I don't like extreme's from either side.

OhLordNick wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 15:05:

ZeroPike1 wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 13:01:

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 11:34:
Bluesky, where people run off to ensure their echo chamber. Don't worry guys, you got your #goodtwitter back, with censorship and lack of diversity of thought.

Yeah its pretty nice there. No megalomaniac man baby telling everybody what they can or cannot say. It feels good.

Really? Who has Elon censored?

I’m impressed at the actual amount of people he cancelled off his little shrinking soap box. I would have named two off the top of my head but it seems plenty more had their free speech removed on the „free speech“ platform.

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 11:34:
Bluesky, where people run off to ensure their echo chamber. Don't worry guys, you got your #goodtwitter back, with censorship and lack of diversity of thought.

Diversity of thought? Do you have trouble presenting ideas without using slurs or something? I've read their TOS and it seems pretty reasonable. You can go on there and champion tax cuts for billionaires all you like. You won't get banned. Sure, you might get banned if you say that you want a white ethnostate and all minorities deported, but if you believe that then your ideas aren't worth hearing anyway. You can stay on Twitter for that. In addition, I really like this part of their TOS:

"Do not engage in voter suppression or share misleading content about election processes. Do not encourage or glorify the intimidation of election participants or real-world disruption of the election processes. Do not share misleading content falsely attributed to candidates in elections."

Given that the single greatest threat to our democracy is misinformation, I'm glad they respect the election process. Unlike Musk (who has had gender-affirming surgery) and his sycophants, who promote voter suppression and misinfo.

Laughing Man wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 19:16:
lol @ defending a platform

Who? Where?

You broke your year break/protest of bluesnews for this?
Wow it must be very important.

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Dec 4, 2024, 23:40. Reason: Personal attacks (rule 1)

* REMOVED *

This comment was deleted on Dec 4, 2024, 23:38. Reason: Intolerance (rule 2)

Cutter wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 17:39:
Until she becomes a billionaire then it's enshittification full speed ahead! Damn the torpedoes!

Kind of like Étienne Rebetez? Oh wait...

Until she becomes a billionaire then it's enshittification full speed ahead! Damn the torpedoes!

Too funny
The hate account, LibsOfTikTok, was banned from Bluesky after just 9 days.
It didn't make it a full Scaramucci.

Remember that time Elon canceled a Tesla preorder because the guy that had it was mean to him on Twitter?

Oh, but yeah, free speech and all. Just don't say "cisgender."

You'd have to stick your head in the sand or prefer to stay uninformed if you think space karen does not censor.

Journalists Steven Zetti of the Texas Observer and Ken Klippenstein of the Intercept had their twitter accounts nuked

Musk suspended several accounts for impersonating him, including those run by comedian Kathy Griffins and former NFL player Chris Kluwe. He also restricted a few accounts for spreading hate speech and politically polarizing content, including Kanye West.
He deactivated @elonjet, an account was run by Jack Sweeney, a 20-year-old Florida college student. Twitter also banned Sweeney’s personal account and his other two accounts tracking the private jets of Donald Trump and Mark Zuckerberg.
He suspended the accounts of several journalists who recently wrote about him and his companies, suggesting they also violated Twitter’s doxxing rules. Those affected include reporters for the New York Times, the Washington Post, CNN, Voice of America and other news organizations.
Twitter announced a new policy banning accounts created with the sole purpose of promoting other social media accounts. That new rule resulted in the suspension of Mastodon, a platform billed as a Twitter alternative.
The words “cis” and “cisgender” are now censored on Twitter.

He banned Journalists for telling the truth
Ryan Mac (@rmac18), reporter for the New York Times
Donie O’Sullivan (@donie), reporter for CNN
Drew Harwell (@drewharwell), reporter for the Washington Post
Taylor Lorenz (@TaylorLorenz), reporter for the Washington Post
Matt Binder (@mattbinder), reporter for Mashable
Micah Lee (@micahflee), reporter for The Intercept
Steve Herman (@W7VOA), chief national correspondent for Voice of America
Aaron Rupar (@atrupar), freelance journalist
Keith Olbermann (@keitholbermann), political commentator
Linette Lopez (@lopezlinette), reporter for Business Insider
Susan Li (@SusanLiTV), reporter for Fox Business
Tony Webster (@webster), freelance journalist

Political accounts
Elm Fork John Brown Gun Club (@EFJBGC), an anti-fascist gun group advocating for LGBT gun ownership
Chad Loder (@chadloder), anti-fascist activist
CrimethInc (@crimethinc), an anarchist collective

Impersonators
h3h3Productions (@h3h3productions), a comedy YouTube channel
Jeph Jacques (@jephjacques), cartoonist
Edith Frost (@edithfrost), singer-songwriter
Rich Sommer (@richsommer), actor
@EliLillyandCo, an account impersonating Eli Lilly and Company



The list goes on and on and on


I was compiling while Sepharo beat me to the punch.

OhLordNick wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 15:05:

ZeroPike1 wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 13:01:

Mashiki Amiketo wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 11:34:
Bluesky, where people run off to ensure their echo chamber. Don't worry guys, you got your #goodtwitter back, with censorship and lack of diversity of thought.

Yeah its pretty nice there. No megalomaniac man baby telling everybody what they can or cannot say. It feels good.

Really? Who has Elon censored?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/December_2022_Twitter_suspensions
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Twitter_under_Elon_Musk#Account_suspensions_and_reinstatements

On December 15, 2022, Twitter suspended the accounts of ten journalists who have covered the company and its owner, Elon Musk. They included reporters Keith Olbermann, Steven L. Herman, and Donie O'Sullivan, as well as journalists from The New York Times, The Washington Post, CNN, and The Intercept.
...
In June 2023 Twitter suspended the accounts of Musk/Tesla critic Aaron Greenspan and his legal transparency company PlainSite. PlainSite had released a number of Musk/Tesla-related documents over the years.
...
In January 2024, X banned accounts belonging to several journalists and left-leaning accounts, including Ken Klippenstein.

There's more.