Beamer wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 15:54:
The United Health stock is up today. Says a lot about the value he brought for $20M.

UnitedHealth Group stock fell 5% on Friday, extending its weekly loss to 10%.
https://finance.yahoo.com/quote/UNH/

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 6, 2024, 00:50:

jdreyer wrote on Dec 6, 2024, 00:43:
People in the US are frustrated that the system doesn't work for them despite what they put in. It's the reason they desperately elected Trump to "fix" it.

Not true.
Donny was elected because of inflation, mainly grocery prices.

An over simplification and a slight exaggeration, but essentially correct. Inflation was a major issue against Harris. Additionally distrust of the government in general fairly significant, despite the fact they are elected and less than 60% of the populace bothers to vote. And Trump is seen as an outsider who is not part of the already existing Washington DC circus. Somehow they failed to remember that in his first term he did very little of what he said he would do. He did manage (with the GOP senate's help) "steal" two nominations to the SCOTUS. Which has been and will continue to crush us for a long time to come. And of course the hundreds of Federal justices he appointed (with more to come now) the country will be feeling the effects of the Trump presidencies for decades to come.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 22:35:
What you say, and may be also that americans aren't that free.

There is a great scene in the first Jack Reacher movie where Tom Cruise (as Reacher), asks the female attorney to look at the building across the street and to look at the people in the offices. And to ask herself which of them is "free". Then says something along the lines of, "Free from debt, free from obligations, free from worry..." something like that, and if they knew all this before getting there if instead of making the choices they did if they would live like Reacher. Who in the movie is represented as simply wandering the country without luggage or purpose. Not a hobo, or homeless, he has his pension to live on, but he chooses not be be in one place or be tied down, not to be beholding to anyone or anything.

jdreyer wrote on Dec 6, 2024, 00:43:
People in the US are frustrated that the system doesn't work for them despite what they put in. It's the reason they desperately elected Trump to "fix" it.

Not true.
Donny was elected because of inflation, mainly grocery prices.
That's all low information voters care about.

If they think don the con is gonna fix things for them, then not only are they low information, they're also ignorant.

People in the US are frustrated that the system doesn't work for them despite what they put in. It's the reason they desperately elected Trump to "fix" it.

Thanks Mr. Tact and Unknown Soldier.

What you say, and may be also that americans aren't that free.
They can't really protest without being egregiously provoked and then maltreated by an almost almighty police and higher security forces.

Here, police is routinely investigated and jailed if found guilty of abuses or crimes, or *** failing to protect the innocent, it's their obligation and are punished if they don't***, no immunity at all.

My country is a circus, but the public is somewhat protected and the politicians (even if scoundrely) on every side make a stink when arrant abuses are found.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 20:35:
I just fail to understand why the populace is so seemingly complacent there.

Basically because people are too comfortable. The corporatocracy has to turn the screws a bit more before we see enough people get angry enough to make a difference.

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 20:35:
I just fail to understand why the populace is so seemingly complacent there.

It is less about the complacency of the people (which is somewhat of a problem) and more about the fact the US is leaning WAY too far towards being a corporatocracy. Remember, our highest court ruled that corporations are effectively people. Literally 100s of millions of dollars are spent lobbying the lawmakers. Corporations write laws and submit them to legislators to put forward. Or rewrite regulations to benefit themselves. If it wasn't so damning it might be comical. Actually, it is probably comical in a terrible way... *sigh*

Please, I'm not flaunting, just telling about my third world country, probably the thirderest of all.

I just fail to understand why the populace is so seemingly complacent there.

If someone tried to apply here what you have there, my country would be up in flames in a day and the government hanging from a balcony (for example, Chile's fierce protests, only curved by Covid arrival, opened the way to a new Constitution).

That's great WLA -- wish I could get something like it. Two years ago my surgery for my Dupuytren's contracture cost me over $3k out of pocket.

This comment was edited on Dec 5, 2024, 18:09.

Here I have a mandatory default health insurance that costs 39.00 usd per month with my for life pension, that has a 50% to 80% discounts on medicaments (100% if you are poor) and practically zero copays.

But appart from that I choose to pay because I want, a 235 usd per month on a private insurance company.
I have access to the 3 top tier hospitals in the capital, and like attention all over the country.

I pay nothing for attention.
Repeat, colonoscopy, 10 medics over 8 months, eco doppler, blood and x-ray, dental consultations and treatments -paid for imported prosthesisl implants only-, oculist, thrombosis treatment, I paid nothing, not a bill.
Except only 30% of medicaments bought at pharmacies (and of the one really costly, the medic gifted me 1 month box for 2.5 usd -costs 30 usd with 70% insurance discount-).
There are no copays nor tops.

Some years ago, my ex, that was in the same plan, was a couple weeks in a private room for her with all manners of high tech studies and drugs, with TV cable and amenities.
Bill total: 0,00. Not one cent.

The USA is a paradise of medical explotation and oppresion with a death penalty for the poor.

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 13:36:

Jivaro wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 12:47:
A rich person just doesn't understand how a 3000 dollar swing in personal finances can break some people. To them it's an afternoon shopping trip.

$3000 dollars a day is what the mega rich spend everyday on security.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/inside-elon-musk-s-mushrooming-security-apparatus

From 2015 to 2018, Musk spent an average of US$145,000 a month on security
Apple spent US$820,000 in 2023 to protect Tim Cook.
Amazon, $1.6 million a year for Bezos.
Meta, $23.4 million for Zuckerberg.

No one is touching the mega rich.

and more https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-spending-more-privacy-security-2018-11?op=1

The USSS was barely able to protect Trump twice. It just dumb luck that he wasn't killed. I bet if someone wanted to kill those CEOs, they could have a reasonable chance. Difference is that those CEOs don't run companies where the profit motive results in 1000s of deaths and bankruptcies each year.

Mr. Tact wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 08:37:

jdreyer wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 00:19:
Health insurance companies should be forced to be non-profit.

It would be pointless. I live in what is the "major" city in my region, a city of 126k with a metro area population of, depending on how you define it, up to 300k. Not surprisingly we are home to the only major hospital and their connected healthcare system in the county. They are a non-profit. They switched to being a non-profit about a decade ago to keep from paying millions is property taxes. And believe me, as someone who has, with the exception of my time in the USAF, lived in the area since 1974 -- they are no saints, they may not be the worse healthcare system in the country, but they certainly aren't the best, and they still hauled in over a billion in revenue in 2021 and the CEO is paid nearly $4m a year. This is in a town where a 2000 sq ft house can cost you about $200k.

It wouldn't be pointless even if it isn't a magic bullet, no pun intended. UHC had $22B in profit last year. That drives their worst in industry behavior. That profit buys a lot of healthcare coverage for patients in need. I worked for my local health insurer. Being a non profit truly constrained our spending. We didn't even have complimentary coffee and tea in the office. And much of our spending needed to be public record as well, including our C-suite salaries. Our CEO made $1.2 M the last year i was there, or about 15x the average employee salary. The rest made well under seven figures. Given that most CEOs make many dozens or hundreds times greater, it wasn't terrible. Even so, there were some op-eds complaining about it.

Jivaro wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 12:47:
A rich person just doesn't understand how a 3000 dollar swing in personal finances can break some people. To them it's an afternoon shopping trip.

$3000 dollars a day is what the mega rich spend everyday on security.
https://www.straitstimes.com/world/inside-elon-musk-s-mushrooming-security-apparatus

From 2015 to 2018, Musk spent an average of US$145,000 a month on security
Apple spent US$820,000 in 2023 to protect Tim Cook.
Amazon, $1.6 million a year for Bezos.
Meta, $23.4 million for Zuckerberg.

No one is touching the mega rich.

and more https://www.businessinsider.com/rich-people-spending-more-privacy-security-2018-11?op=1

RedEye9 wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 06:19:

jdreyer wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 00:19:
Health insurance companies should be forced to be non-profit.

Why do you hate capitalism?

Hey, that's my line!

Jivaro wrote on Dec 5, 2024, 12:47:
This past year, in part due to Medicare changes that will go into effect on January 1st, many elderly people in many zipcodes had their supplemental plans cancelled back in September. They can't just re-up, they have to get a new plan. From anyone. They were told to pick a new plan by Dec 15th (I think)...

Man, I am so NOT looking forward to when I hit 65 and have to sign up for that nonsense. I have a couple of years, I need to find someone who keeps on top of this stuff so I don't accidentally screw myself somehow.

The Flying Penguin wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 16:53:
FYI: United Health is not exactly the kind of company to suffer a stock crash from the sudden death of it's CEO. While he was competent, he was not seen as a lynchpin of the company (stockholder here, and I do occasionally read the reports). Not a personality cult company like Tesla, for instance, whose stock would likely crash if Musk was shot dead in the street.

They're a full, service health insurance provider, but their biggest business is Medicare Advantage and Medicare Supplement plans, through AARP. My Dad and wife both have Medicare Supplements through them, as will I when my time comes.

This past year, in part due to Medicare changes that will go into effect on January 1st, many elderly people in many zipcodes had their supplemental plans cancelled back in September. They can't just re-up, they have to get a new plan. From anyone. They were told to pick a new plan by Dec 15th (I think). The reasons the plans get cancelled is usually because something about the demographics of the zipcode has broken the insurance company plan's ability to be profitable and they have to reissue it in a way that is. I am not saying that everyone will see a price jump, but for my step-dad had this forced change and its going to triple his individual costs montly.....which is ridiculous if only because the whole point of a supplemental plan is to avoid sudden high costs. He is a vet, so he might just opt for VA+Medicare A.B,D and call it a day. If he wasn't a vet he would be looking at spending about 3 grand more per year on just the supplemental insurance then he did the year before.

I am not saying that justifies anyone getting shot or it's a reason for this shooting....I would have no idea....but what I will say is that when the public starts feeling like the wealthy have a "let them eat cake" mentality, it only takes one really bad situation and one loose screw in a country where literally anyone can carry a one-shot-and-you-are-dead weapon to have this happen. If the shooter is not caught, and maybe even if they are, I expect more of this type of targeted violence as the gap between the rich/wealthy and the poor/middle classes gets bigger. A rich person just doesn't understand how a 3000 dollar swing in personal finances can break some people. To them it's an afternoon shopping trip.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 23:00:

WannaLogAlready wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 22:32:
Sorry for the guy if his work was honestly good for the people in need, if not ...

It wasn't. UHC made record profits while claim denial also went up. His paycheck was literal blood money.

News is now reporting that the bullet casings had words inscribed on them: "deny," "defend" and "depose"

Cutter wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 17:54:

Mr. Tact wrote on Dec 4, 2024, 12:18:
Hmm, the murder of a CEO of a healthcare company with a record of some shady practices. I wonder who might want to kill him? Hell, even if they weren't doing shady things, it is likely the list of people who wouldn't mind killing him is long. That's not to say killing him is justified...

The video also shows what investigators said was the pistol jamming during the shooting and the assailant quickly clearing the jam and resuming fire.

Pistol with silencer and we can assume subsonic ammo, shooter has obvious training and doesn't panic with a jam, just clears and and ensures he finishes the job. Knowing he's going to be caught on camera keeps hood and mask up the whole time on the path he's chosen. Knows when the victim is going to be there. There was some serious time, money, and planning that went into this.

Read my mind - this looks like a professional hit, in which case the shooter may well be in another state or country by now.

Be aware that counterfeit cashier’s checks are a thing.

Dude sells BMW, buyer pays with a cashier checks, they both go off to the sellers bank where the teller deposits the check and explains the money won’t be available until the next day, standard yada yada.
Sure enough, the next day the money was there.

A couple days later the fake cashier’s check bounces.
https://youtu.be/WCtIHK1DZWA?si=VpFYlKkBpjcS8tRU&t=247 4 minute mark