Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 21:54:

Jivaro wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 21:41:
If you did do that, would the games still be moddable or would they only be playable as they are packaged?

That depends how the VM or container is constructed. By default, it is possible to alter the contents of a VM or container though it would not be easy for the average user since doing so almost always requires command line access so you can shell in. Some VMs and containers are very much locked and are just meant to be run.

However, that being said, that wouldn't stop GOG or anyone else from creating a GUI based app that would allow you to insert mods in a user friendly way.

Thanks BoP! Appreciate it!

El Pit wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 14:24:
GOG, I know it is incredibly hard to find out who owns which rights to the games, but N.O.L.F. 1 & 2 saved by you would be simply AMAZING!

ACG interviewed the CEO of Nightdive recently and asked about NOLF.
Nightdive does indeed know who owns the rights, but getting them to actually agree to distribution is the barrier now.

Cutter wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 17:31:
What a waste of time, money, and resources. In the words of Justin Hammer, "Hey man, don't get so attached to things. Learn to let go."

How did that work out for him?

Jivaro wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 21:41:
If you did do that, would the games still be moddable or would they only be playable as they are packaged?

That depends how the VM or container is constructed. By default, it is possible to alter the contents of a VM or container though it would not be easy for the average user since doing so almost always requires command line access so you can shell in. Some VMs and containers are very much locked and are just meant to be run.

However, that being said, that wouldn't stop GOG or anyone else from creating a GUI based app that would allow you to insert mods in a user friendly way.

If you did do that, would the games still be moddable or would they only be playable as they are packaged?

MrCharm42 wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 20:50:
I thought about this also. Build once, with all the faffing all done, and make that the package.

That was my thought as well. If I can containerize Active Directory, surely encapsulating an old game would be much easier a task.

Burrito of Peace wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 14:04:
Hmmm...this got me to thinking. Why not package these up as VMs or containers? Everything isolated and self-contained with no requirements on any particular OS.

I thought about this also. Build once, with all the faffing all done, and make that the package.

Holy fuck I ain't seen underdogs in 10+ years...

Darks wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 18:27:
You want to find an old game thats been abandoned. Here you go!!

https://www.myabandonware.com/

Or https://www.homeoftheunderdogs.net/

Cutter wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 17:31:
What a waste of time, money, and resources. In the words of Justin Hammer, "Hey man, don't get so attached to things. Learn to let go."

That's right, we should just burn down the Louvre while we're at it. Why bother holding onto old crustys paintings?

You want to find an old game thats been abandoned. Here you go!!

https://www.myabandonware.com/

What a waste of time, money, and resources. In the words of Justin Hammer, "Hey man, don't get so attached to things. Learn to let go."

Kristian Joensen wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 15:29:

Beamer wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 14:29:

The Pyro wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 13:56:

Beamer wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 12:03:
When they say inaccessible, do they mean for sale?
Because places like the internet archive seem to have way more than 13% of games from the 80s, 90s, and 00s. At least for PC.

Based on the context (maintaining compatibility), I'm assuming this is not referring to sales, but to being able to run the games on modern equipment. Older games can have all sorts of dependencies (e.g., DirectX versions, or specific OS features) - that are hard to dig up. Sometimes you have to run them through emulation, or package them with additional .DLL files that weren't included in the original, etc... DOSBox is a common workaround.

Yeah, but again, I'd say DOSBox means it isn't inaccessible.
Inaccessible, to me, means that if I want to play it tomorrow I cannot. But virtually any horrible game I can remember from my youth is on myabandonware.com. There are ways to get them all to work. They're not inaccessible. They're largely not available for purchase, hence being on an abandonware site, but they're certainly accessible.

I just want to know how they came to that figure. Are we including console games? Virtually every game has been emulated. Are they talking a game some 16 year old made in an afternoon and released solely to his local BBS? Maybe. But I would say that far more than 13% of games released prior to 2010 can be located and played today. In fact, I'd also wager the numbers are worse post-2010, since more than a handful of GAAS and multiplayer games have disappeared entirely. I'm sure someone looking to write a thesis on Radical Heights is really mourning it being inaccessible, haha. In the meantime, I'm going to rejoice in the fact that Isle of the Dead and Big Red Racing are still totally accessible.

I am pretty sure they are talking about A) Legally B) Safely (Without malware) and C) Working out of the box on modern equipment and OSes. What you are describing often violates one, more or all of those.

There are ways to get them all to work.

In many cases yes. But these games work out of the box and with official support.

Which is why a goal of 0 is impossible. Much of this is legitimate abandonware. No one owns it anymore, or the entity that owns it has no interest in figuring out how to do anything with it.

I mean, I get that it's Good Old Games, not Crappy Old Games 14 Year Old You Really Wanted Due to an Ad in Computer Game Review's Holiday 1997 Issue, but the whole premise is setting itself up with too unlikely a claim and too grandiose a purpose. I'm nitpicking, sure, but these types of things just feel amateurish. They're overstating the problem (even if not by much) and setting an impossible goal.

Beamer wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 14:29:

The Pyro wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 13:56:

Beamer wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 12:03:
When they say inaccessible, do they mean for sale?
Because places like the internet archive seem to have way more than 13% of games from the 80s, 90s, and 00s. At least for PC.

Based on the context (maintaining compatibility), I'm assuming this is not referring to sales, but to being able to run the games on modern equipment. Older games can have all sorts of dependencies (e.g., DirectX versions, or specific OS features) - that are hard to dig up. Sometimes you have to run them through emulation, or package them with additional .DLL files that weren't included in the original, etc... DOSBox is a common workaround.

Yeah, but again, I'd say DOSBox means it isn't inaccessible.
Inaccessible, to me, means that if I want to play it tomorrow I cannot. But virtually any horrible game I can remember from my youth is on myabandonware.com. There are ways to get them all to work. They're not inaccessible. They're largely not available for purchase, hence being on an abandonware site, but they're certainly accessible.

I just want to know how they came to that figure. Are we including console games? Virtually every game has been emulated. Are they talking a game some 16 year old made in an afternoon and released solely to his local BBS? Maybe. But I would say that far more than 13% of games released prior to 2010 can be located and played today. In fact, I'd also wager the numbers are worse post-2010, since more than a handful of GAAS and multiplayer games have disappeared entirely. I'm sure someone looking to write a thesis on Radical Heights is really mourning it being inaccessible, haha. In the meantime, I'm going to rejoice in the fact that Isle of the Dead and Big Red Racing are still totally accessible.

Accessible means 1) legitimately available, and 2) able to be run without jumping through absurd hoops, then dealing with constant crashes and corruption.

OK, so looks like they are trying to leverage another angle to get publishers off their lazy asses. I mean, what's been stopping them from e.g. getting Freelancer on GOG? Right. Publisher laziness. M$ is simply too fucking lazy to give a shit.

We'll have to wait and see if the pretense of "preservation" is going to motivate publisher's legal departments to lift a finger more than the previous openly commercially driven interests by GOG.

Not holding my breath... companies like M$ that rake in nearly $100bn/year in NET profits probably can not be arsed with such chicken shit...

Beamer wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 14:29:

The Pyro wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 13:56:

Beamer wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 12:03:
When they say inaccessible, do they mean for sale?
Because places like the internet archive seem to have way more than 13% of games from the 80s, 90s, and 00s. At least for PC.

Based on the context (maintaining compatibility), I'm assuming this is not referring to sales, but to being able to run the games on modern equipment. Older games can have all sorts of dependencies (e.g., DirectX versions, or specific OS features) - that are hard to dig up. Sometimes you have to run them through emulation, or package them with additional .DLL files that weren't included in the original, etc... DOSBox is a common workaround.

Yeah, but again, I'd say DOSBox means it isn't inaccessible.
Inaccessible, to me, means that if I want to play it tomorrow I cannot. But virtually any horrible game I can remember from my youth is on myabandonware.com. There are ways to get them all to work. They're not inaccessible. They're largely not available for purchase, hence being on an abandonware site, but they're certainly accessible.

I just want to know how they came to that figure. Are we including console games? Virtually every game has been emulated. Are they talking a game some 16 year old made in an afternoon and released solely to his local BBS? Maybe. But I would say that far more than 13% of games released prior to 2010 can be located and played today. In fact, I'd also wager the numbers are worse post-2010, since more than a handful of GAAS and multiplayer games have disappeared entirely. I'm sure someone looking to write a thesis on Radical Heights is really mourning it being inaccessible, haha. In the meantime, I'm going to rejoice in the fact that Isle of the Dead and Big Red Racing are still totally accessible.

I am pretty sure they are talking about A) Legally B) Safely (Without malware) and C) Working out of the box on modern equipment and OSes. What you are describing often violates one, more or all of those.

There are ways to get them all to work.

In many cases yes. But these games work out of the box and with official support.

The Pyro wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 13:56:

Beamer wrote on Nov 13, 2024, 12:03:
When they say inaccessible, do they mean for sale?
Because places like the internet archive seem to have way more than 13% of games from the 80s, 90s, and 00s. At least for PC.

Based on the context (maintaining compatibility), I'm assuming this is not referring to sales, but to being able to run the games on modern equipment. Older games can have all sorts of dependencies (e.g., DirectX versions, or specific OS features) - that are hard to dig up. Sometimes you have to run them through emulation, or package them with additional .DLL files that weren't included in the original, etc... DOSBox is a common workaround.

Yeah, but again, I'd say DOSBox means it isn't inaccessible.
Inaccessible, to me, means that if I want to play it tomorrow I cannot. But virtually any horrible game I can remember from my youth is on myabandonware.com. There are ways to get them all to work. They're not inaccessible. They're largely not available for purchase, hence being on an abandonware site, but they're certainly accessible.

I just want to know how they came to that figure. Are we including console games? Virtually every game has been emulated. Are they talking a game some 16 year old made in an afternoon and released solely to his local BBS? Maybe. But I would say that far more than 13% of games released prior to 2010 can be located and played today. In fact, I'd also wager the numbers are worse post-2010, since more than a handful of GAAS and multiplayer games have disappeared entirely. I'm sure someone looking to write a thesis on Radical Heights is really mourning it being inaccessible, haha. In the meantime, I'm going to rejoice in the fact that Isle of the Dead and Big Red Racing are still totally accessible.

GOG, I know it is incredibly hard to find out who owns which rights to the games, but N.O.L.F. 1 & 2 saved by you would be simply AMAZING!

Awesome, now maybe some day I can have a legal, disc free, modern os compatible LotR Battle for Middle Earth 1 and 2 version (s) on GoG.

Pretty sure those games are stuck in IP ownership limbo though.

Hmmm...this got me to thinking. Why not package these up as VMs or containers? Everything isolated and self-contained with no requirements on any particular OS.