You keep saying "most."

My uncle was a huge music guy. He was in bands, he toured, he had an entire room of his house dedicated to his sound system and all his records. Thousands.

When I was on HS, he would frequently go on rants about how mtv and the music industry was shoving tasteless, artless grunge down everyone's throats and who wanted that? No one wanted that. People didn't want some blind Seattle kid crying about his life or some dreadlocked kid yelling about the police. They wanted the Stones or even The Police.

Part of aging gracefully is realizing you're no longer the audience. You can still listen to The Stones or play a Boomer Shooter, but you're no longer the audience that whose interests get the bulk of the attention. You're out of touch.

It's even worse now that art is a capitalist science.

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:44:
I don't recall saying I wanted to troll anyone. You chose to read that into my intent.

It's one of the points I made that you ignored when you went after the strawman of my intolerance. I quoted you from another thread: "I only recently decided to post because some of the people who post here seem so completely detached from the reality of what most gamers actually think. Nothing wrong with providing a counter point to the woke mob who relish in identity politics."

I've made 6 posts thus far and I've remained civil. If 6 posts are too many in a back and forth discussion, then my apologies.

Only six posts? Wow! So not even a third of the thread? And here I thought you were trolling.

Clearly you will continue to try to get in the last word in this thread, so it's now locked. You've been warned. Cool it, or don't. Coming back at me at this point will be interpreted as the latter.

Blue wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:33:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:22:
This is your site. If you don't want me to express a view you don't like or agree with, that's certainly understandable. Some people are tolerant of open discussion and some are not. It is what it is.

Congrats on grabbing the moral high ground there. Yeah, we're still discussing this because I'm so intolerant.

You have been given ample opportunity to express your opinions. The opportunity to derail threads with endless debates about them is what's being curtailed. At this point the phrase "GHOB" appears in this thread 21 times. If you want to make points, post here. If you want to troll and argue, which is your stated intent, kindly go elsewhere.

I don't recall saying I wanted to troll anyone. You chose to read that into my intent. I've made 6 posts thus far and I've remained civil. If 6 posts are too many in a back and forth discussion, then my apologies.

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:22:
This is your site. If you don't want me to express a view you don't like or agree with, that's certainly understandable. Some people are tolerant of open discussion and some are not. It is what it is.

Congrats on grabbing the moral high ground there. Yeah, we're still discussing this because I'm so intolerant.

You have been given ample opportunity to express your opinions. The opportunity to derail threads with endless debates about them is what's being curtailed. At this point the phrase "GHOB" appears in this thread 21 times. If you want to make points, post here. If you want to troll and argue, which is your stated intent, kindly go elsewhere.

Rokkuu wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:20:
What a joke. All the Woke/DEI types are the ones commenting everywhere and giving their opinions where no one wants them.
The average gamer doesn’t want that bullshit and just wants good gameplay mechanics with a cool badass story.

Speaking of lacking self-awareness...

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:06:

Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:55:
I don't support it because it's not a real thing. It's a bogeyman used to sow destruction and tribalism.

You may not think it's a real thing and that's certainly fair, but then why put energy into this whole thing by commenting on it here?

There are a lot of people however who think it is very real and it is a problem that needs to be dealt with, and they're putting their money where their mouth is.

Because people who think it's a real thing are the problem (and because I'm self-isolating with covid and really, really bored).

I have no doubt that there are people who think it's real and who are voting with their wallets, although not in a particularly significant number. Wukong and W40K:SM2 are selling well because by all accounts they are just really good games. Cancel-culture is another imaginary bogeyman, so the misogynists who made Wukong are doing just fine.

It's such a weird mess of contradictions. Cancel-culture is ruining art, yet go-woke-go-broke. We don't want politics in our games, but we put our money where our mouth is when a game politically pleases us. Yeah I know, it's not political, right? That's the point, it's not political ... except they're actively against a political position, which absolutely is political. If you think trying to ban "feminist propaganda" isn't political, you're probably the sort of person so devoid of self-awareness that you think because you agree with a comment then it's not controversial ... oh. Right.

Blue wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:13:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:55:

Blue wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:43:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:38:
I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism.

Cognitive dissonance much?

I see none in my statement. I'm Canadian, so I get to watch what is happening in the US from a bit of a distance. The US now resembles old Yugoslavia, with a serious case of Balkanization. This is primarily due to the tribal nature of identity politics.

You are the one who seems to be here only to argue about this one topic. You are the one who invoked "wokeism" in this thread, and as has been pointed out, it is your pet obsession.

In another thread you said:

I only recently decided to post because some of the people who post here seem so completely detached from the reality of what most gamers actually think. Nothing wrong with providing a counter point to the woke mob who relish in identity politics.

Trolls usually don't say the quiet part out loud.

So okay. You've made whatever point you want to make. Now it's time to stop picking fights over the identity politics you say you detest.

This is your site. If you don't want me to express a view you don't like or agree with, that's certainly understandable. Some people are tolerant of open discussion and some are not. It is what it is.

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 17:06:

Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:55:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:38:

Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:31:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:19:
His post was in no way controversial and is the sentiment of a lot of gamers, which is why games that reject wokification tend to do well financially. Companies that choose not to engage in woke identity culture have my full support.

"It's not controversial if I agree with it."

I don't think his comments are a particularly big deal, but this is perhaps the worst, most narcissistic take on it. I'd ask for a source on that claim about what games do well financially but unironically saying "woke identity culture" gives me zero faith in your ability to comprehend data. Let me guess, you think Gillette lost $8B?

The data is fairly clear. If you believe that woke culture has had a positive impact in our overall social discourse then, I have a bridge to sell you. I'm an old school liberal. I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism. You are free to support it and I am free to oppose it.

I don't support it because it's not a real thing. It's a bogeyman used to sow destruction and tribalism.

You may not think it's a real thing and that's certainly fair, but then why put energy into this whole thing by commenting on it here?

There are a lot of people however who think it is very real and it is a problem that needs to be dealt with, and they're putting their money where their mouth is.

What a joke. All the Woke/DEI types are the ones commenting everywhere and giving their opinions where no one wants them.
The average gamer doesn’t want that bullshit and just wants good gameplay mechanics with a cool badass story.

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:55:

Blue wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:43:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:38:
I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism.

Cognitive dissonance much?

I see none in my statement. I'm Canadian, so I get to watch what is happening in the US from a bit of a distance. The US now resembles old Yugoslavia, with a serious case of Balkanization. This is primarily due to the tribal nature of identity politics.

You are the one who seems to be here only to argue about this one topic. You are the one who invoked "wokeism" in this thread, and as has been pointed out, it is your pet obsession.

In another thread you said:

I only recently decided to post because some of the people who post here seem so completely detached from the reality of what most gamers actually think. Nothing wrong with providing a counter point to the woke mob who relish in identity politics.

Trolls usually don't say the quiet part out loud.

So okay. You've made whatever point you want to make. Now it's time to stop picking fights over the identity politics you say you detest.

Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:55:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:38:

Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:31:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:19:
His post was in no way controversial and is the sentiment of a lot of gamers, which is why games that reject wokification tend to do well financially. Companies that choose not to engage in woke identity culture have my full support.

"It's not controversial if I agree with it."

I don't think his comments are a particularly big deal, but this is perhaps the worst, most narcissistic take on it. I'd ask for a source on that claim about what games do well financially but unironically saying "woke identity culture" gives me zero faith in your ability to comprehend data. Let me guess, you think Gillette lost $8B?

The data is fairly clear. If you believe that woke culture has had a positive impact in our overall social discourse then, I have a bridge to sell you. I'm an old school liberal. I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism. You are free to support it and I am free to oppose it.

I don't support it because it's not a real thing. It's a bogeyman used to sow destruction and tribalism.

You may not think it's a real thing and that's certainly fair, but then why put energy into this whole thing by commenting on it here?

There are a lot of people however who think it is very real and it is a problem that needs to be dealt with, and they're putting their money where their mouth is.

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:38:

Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:31:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:19:
His post was in no way controversial and is the sentiment of a lot of gamers, which is why games that reject wokification tend to do well financially. Companies that choose not to engage in woke identity culture have my full support.

"It's not controversial if I agree with it."

I don't think his comments are a particularly big deal, but this is perhaps the worst, most narcissistic take on it. I'd ask for a source on that claim about what games do well financially but unironically saying "woke identity culture" gives me zero faith in your ability to comprehend data. Let me guess, you think Gillette lost $8B?

The data is fairly clear. If you believe that woke culture has had a positive impact in our overall social discourse then, I have a bridge to sell you. I'm an old school liberal. I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism. You are free to support it and I am free to oppose it.

I don't support it because it's not a real thing. It's a bogeyman used to sow destruction and tribalism.

Blue wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:43:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:38:
I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism.

Cognitive dissonance much?

I see none in my statement. I'm Canadian, so I get to watch what is happening in the US from a bit of a distance. The US now resembles old Yugoslavia, with a serious case of Balkanization. This is primarily due to the tribal nature of identity politics.

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:38:
I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism.

Cognitive dissonance much?

Quboid wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:31:

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:19:
His post was in no way controversial and is the sentiment of a lot of gamers, which is why games that reject wokification tend to do well financially. Companies that choose not to engage in woke identity culture have my full support.

"It's not controversial if I agree with it."

I don't think his comments are a particularly big deal, but this is perhaps the worst, most narcissistic take on it. I'd ask for a source on that claim about what games do well financially but unironically saying "woke identity culture" gives me zero faith in your ability to comprehend data. Let me guess, you think Gillette lost $8B?

The data is fairly clear. If you believe that woke culture has had a positive impact in our overall social discourse then, I have a bridge to sell you. I'm an old school liberal. I think we should stop dividing people based on 'identities' and start treating people as individuals. Woke culture has brought nothing but destruction and tribalism. You are free to support it and I am free to oppose it.

GHOB wrote on Sep 19, 2024, 16:19:
His post was in no way controversial and is the sentiment of a lot of gamers, which is why games that reject wokification tend to do well financially. Companies that choose not to engage in woke identity culture have my full support.

"It's not controversial if I agree with it."

I don't think his comments are a particularly big deal, but this is perhaps the worst, most narcissistic take on it. I'd ask for a source on that claim about what games do well financially but unironically saying "woke identity culture" gives me zero faith in your ability to comprehend data. Let me guess, you think Gillette lost $8B?

His post was in no way controversial and is the sentiment of a lot of gamers, which is why games that reject wokification tend to do well financially. Companies that choose not to engage in woke identity culture have my full support.

If saying something that makes you sound edgy and like a bit of a tool on social media were illegal Elon Musk would have been jailed many years ago. I have no problem with his opinion. I've seen WAY worse.

As is obvious by my original post in the first thread, I think he is a loon but it's not something everyone should be losing their minds about either. CEOs have convenient and mallable "beliefs", depending on what company they are leading. I think it's gross, but one human that happens to be incharge is not going to keep me from playing Warhammer games for whatever reasons I have unless he is using child labor or something to make them. (LOL?) The way some folks are so easily led around by anyone willing to use the word "woke" in a negative conotation is just too easy to resist for today's companies. Same way some companies try to appeal to opposite end of the political spectrum and get the same results..so its not a right/left thing. Its just the age old story of one human knowing exactly what to say to the audience to get the reaction they are looking for. It is literally irrelevant if he believes it or not.

He got what he wanted out of the post.

Florida Man.


All the people that cried when Ebert said games weren't art are now crying that games are trying to do what art does and make statements and have a point of view.

What's so controversial about his comment? I must be missing something here.